Author Topic: Asian BoM costs  (Read 4175 times)

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Offline alanambroseTopic starter

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Asian BoM costs
« on: February 20, 2018, 12:24:34 pm »
Hi,

I was looking at some small volume Chinese PCBA quotes recently and noticed that BoM numbers were a bit all-over-the-place. Surprisingly for me, some numbers were higher that Digi-Key USD pricing we pay for prototype quantity parts. This made it harder to compare quotes as I had to figure out what extra margin was buried in the BoM sourcing. I always thought that often the US price is quoted for low volume / discount for higher volume - and that in actual fact the PCBA supplier made a substantial part of their margin on the PCBA deal by sourcing lower cost parts locally.

Anyone have extra insight / experience on this? Either as a customer or supplier?

Alan
“A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds"
 

Offline eclipse_real

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Re: Asian BoM costs
« Reply #1 on: February 20, 2018, 09:31:20 pm »
I am about to get into this myself - just waiting for the end of the national holidays.

I guess I was just thinking of getting quotes from 4-5 Chinese PCBA companies and then comparing. I've read a bunch of posts around here and while there are lot of PCB company opinions, I didn't see a lot of PCBA company recommendations.

Why is it so confusing for you if you have a few quotes? Are you planning to beat them up on some specific components that are higher priced?

My project has an expensive board mounted AC / DC converter, and those can be really expensive....wondering how that will turn out.

Interesting that DigiKey is cheaper on some.

How many Chinese company quotes did you get to compare?
 

Offline rea5245

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Re: Asian BoM costs
« Reply #2 on: February 20, 2018, 11:36:01 pm »
The cheapest way is to source the parts yourself, and declare a fake, low custom value the ship the parts to China.

It's remarkable how often I see fake customs declarations. Our governments enact tariffs and individuals evade them frequently. So is "democracy" what the politicians do, or what the people do?

(Of course, large shipments undoubtedly get closer scrutiny from Customs.)
 

Offline mrpackethead

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Re: Asian BoM costs
« Reply #3 on: February 21, 2018, 01:25:09 am »
When they can source the parts from Shenzhen market (general jellybean parts), they source them there for cheap.
When you use a proprietary part, they have to source them from major distributors, and the currency exchange service fee, import duty and sourcing company's profit will kick in.
The cheapest way is to source the parts yourself, and declare a fake, low custom value the ship the parts to China.

Its just not worth the risk, doign false declarations. Get caught, ( i dont' care what they do in China ) here doign that  ( sending stuff ) you will get a big fine.    Very different way of doign things here.
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Offline mrpackethead

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Re: Asian BoM costs
« Reply #4 on: February 21, 2018, 01:29:26 am »
Hi,

I was looking at some small volume Chinese PCBA quotes recently and noticed that BoM numbers were a bit all-over-the-place. Surprisingly for me, some numbers were higher that Digi-Key USD pricing we pay for prototype quantity parts. This made it harder to compare quotes as I had to figure out what extra margin was buried in the BoM sourcing. I always thought that often the US price is quoted for low volume / discount for higher volume - and that in actual fact the PCBA supplier made a substantial part of their margin on the PCBA deal by sourcing lower cost parts locally.

Anyone have extra insight / experience on this? Either as a customer or supplier?

Alan

If the parts are being sourced from overseas, they are often more expensive for the small PCBA's to purchase than you coudl purchase them in the US or outside of china.    Larger PCBA's ( and if you are doign big jobs )  have tax-free zones, where goods come into and leave the country and there is no tax paid..  Import dutys are 20%+ on parts.     Many of the microcontrollers fit into this catagory..     if you want to find out what parts you can get locally check out one of the local distributors.   
http://www.szlcsc.com/  is the chinese digikey for example.    Some stuff is awesome. Some stuff is blah.  Szlcsc is pretty good with product tracablity,  I've never got burned with parts that are not 'real'.

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Offline mrpackethead

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Re: Asian BoM costs
« Reply #5 on: February 21, 2018, 02:04:06 am »
Its just not worth the risk, doign false declarations. Get caught, ( i dont' care what they do in China ) here doign that  ( sending stuff ) you will get a big fine.    Very different way of doign things here.

All major Chinese PCBA houses will ask you to do the same thing.
Anyway, duty is determined by import country, not export country. If you get caught, it's your problem with Chinese government, not with your government.

That is not correct.  False declerations are against the law here, australia, the USA and many others.    Its not vigouressly enforced, becuaus theres no revenue. Get caught, and everything you ever import will get inspected.   You are obviously happy doign what you want to do. I'm not.  I'm not going to break the law and cause myself issues.
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Offline mrpackethead

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Re: Asian BoM costs
« Reply #6 on: February 21, 2018, 03:05:16 am »
When will westerners learn when dealing with Chinese, use Chinese rules :palm:.

the chinese 'rules' are that you have to pay duty.   You just choose to ignore that.    2ndly, for me to make a false declaration and ship goods from MY country is a violation of OUR law.     

Quote
Do a PCBA in China with whichever fab you'd like to use, and report back. Let's see how can you import goods legally to China without getting into tons of trouble.
I've done plenty and i've done it legally and to the letter.   Mostly my work is done in tax free zones, so its not subject to import duty. but *Everything* is always accruately documetned.  As i say. you can do business how you like ,but i choose to follow the rules.

Quote
So why can Apple/Microsoft/Sony import so many things to China? Well, they have an import/export license so that they can import anything, as long as the finished product gets exported.
Most Chinese PCBA houses don't have such a license, so either you spend tons of money to get your parts certified in China, or you hire a custom clearing company with import/export license to clear the goods.
Exactly.
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Offline mrpackethead

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Re: Asian BoM costs
« Reply #7 on: February 21, 2018, 03:39:12 am »
Mind let us know which fab you use for mid-quantity production (100pcs~1kpcs)? I know PCBWay doesn't have import/export license, and since they share the same investor, I assume ALLPCB doesn't have one either.

Not somethign that i really want to share, as I'm a rounding error  on their balacnce sheet. and I can only access their services, becuase i've provided them with a good amount of know-how to get a very specific product manufactured.  They are located in teh Zhuhai Free trade Zone, near Macau.    They make a very specific PCB for me, that i can't buy elsewhere.   The certainly are not in the business of low volume. ( normally ) but when you hve somethign they want. you can find ways.

 
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Offline invzim

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Re: Asian BoM costs
« Reply #8 on: February 21, 2018, 10:00:42 am »
Hi,

I was looking at some small volume Chinese PCBA quotes recently and noticed that BoM numbers were a bit all-over-the-place. Surprisingly for me, some numbers were higher that Digi-Key USD pricing we pay for prototype quantity parts. This made it harder to compare quotes as I had to figure out what extra margin was buried in the BoM sourcing. I always thought that often the US price is quoted for low volume / discount for higher volume - and that in actual fact the PCBA supplier made a substantial part of their margin on the PCBA deal by sourcing lower cost parts locally.

Anyone have extra insight / experience on this? Either as a customer or supplier?

Alan
"it depends".  I recently submitted a request for quote, and it seems they just punched part-numbers into digikey.  It was a bit of a struggle to get them to use local brands - all kinds of connectors/slots in particular is a major PITA.  My tip is to 'dumb down' the BOM a bit, specify "0603 1k 1% Resistor" instead of an actual part number, don't specify a TE/AMP usb connector part # - or they will use it and charge you accordingly.  8 years ago it was very different, pcb+parts+assembly was then cheaper than what I could source parts for myself.
 

Offline Kjelt

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Re: Asian BoM costs
« Reply #9 on: February 21, 2018, 10:44:48 am »
don't specify a TE/AMP usb connector part # - or they will use it and charge you accordingly.
For generic resistors I can understand but for connectors I would be more carefull, I have seen some usb connectors die after 40 inserts. It is your companies name that is on the product.
 

Offline noras

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Re: Asian BoM costs
« Reply #10 on: March 12, 2018, 09:32:36 am »
The world's largest demographic country, you will find it difficult to develop. You find that when you manage a person, it is very easy to manage. When you manage a group of people, it is very difficult. Corruption is a big problem. I personally believe that The home inquiry is compared, and problems can be solved in time to solve the problem rather than an excuse.

IC problem is your PCBA factory purchase problem.
Isn't BOM to view the total price? If you have an objection to which component price, you can purchase the components themselves.

Service ?Delivery ?Quality?Price? Genuine.

Wool is out of the sheep. Enjoy the current convenience. In the future, many things will be more and more expensive. When you get benefits from one thing, it must damage other places, such as the environment, such as the cheap labor of other people.It may be only a few dollars for someone to work for several days

(from google translation because my english is poor)
« Last Edit: March 12, 2018, 10:11:37 am by noras »
 

Offline katy201607

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Re: Asian BoM costs
« Reply #11 on: March 18, 2018, 08:23:59 am »
Hi Alan
i have the experience.
But after supplier reply, i know the reason.
If the components is not regular and most of them are ICs, it is very expensive from China.
Because the supplier from China needs to import them from overseas. the tax is very higher in China custom
Hope it helps you.
Professional Electronic Engineer from PCBGOGO
www.pcbgogo.com
 

Offline svenskelektronik

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Re: Asian BoM costs
« Reply #12 on: March 19, 2018, 11:15:25 am »
Depending on manufacturer some components will be made outside of China. These components will be alot more expensive in China since adding import taxes and additional middelhands.
The best way is to work with both trusted Asian, American and European factories, traders and  brokers agents to get the best prices at the specified quality.

Depending on the product and quantity you may want to choose an assembly house in America, Europe or in Asia. You need to consider import taxes at different stages for the manufacturing and distribution. You also need to add business trip expenses and dont forget the language barrier when it comes to support and solving production line issues. I do know this as we sometimes outsource production for bigger series over 10 000 units as we start loosing our price advantage at these big volumes.

You may want to check out our online calculator for our PCBA service located in Europe, Sweden at http://www.svenskelektronikproduktion.se/en/webshop/prototype-assembly.php  and compare the price to Asian and American PCBA services.
We will also help you source components if you insist.
 

Offline mrpackethead

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Re: Asian BoM costs
« Reply #13 on: March 19, 2018, 09:57:09 pm »
if you are doign larger volumes, you'd tyupically use a manfuacter that operates inside a tax free zone,  VAT / Duties are then not an issue.   
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Offline coppice

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Re: Asian BoM costs
« Reply #14 on: March 19, 2018, 10:06:25 pm »
if you are doign larger volumes, you'd tyupically use a manfuacter that operates inside a tax free zone,  VAT / Duties are then not an issue.
Even if you are making small quantities, most of the decent assembly shops are places that have VAT/duty free status.
 
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