At what price point do 3d printers transition from junk to something usable?

[e100]

Are sub $1000 printers even worth looking at, or do you spend more time fiddling with it than actually using it to make things?

This is for one off prototype ideas so speed isn't an issue.
Ideally it would consume ABS plastic filament, or some other plastic that can tolerate outdoor conditions.

[Rerouter]

I went with the dirt cheap option, a geeetech G2S pro, 4 afternoons building the thing, 1 afternoon calibrating the thing, 1 weekend finding out the component tolerance on the rods and plate where not to my liking and reshaping / resizing, 1 afternoon of ripping out the springs, and fitting fixed spacers/ calibrating correctly, 2 afternoons to get the hang of cad and slicer settings, and now it "Just works"

In other words if it came to me assembled with in tolerance components, it probably would have been 2 days to get going in full swing, still as an engineer i would not have come to know exactly what every part of that thing did work perfectly out of the box, so comes down to your goals,

PLA is actually a very good plastic for outdoors, and holds tolerance far better than ABS which likes the shrink / expand over temperature cycles, just use carbon black if it needs to be UV resistant.

as a reference, i can print out things to better than a 0.1mm tolerance on dimensions with my cheap and cheerful unit, anything that cannot meet that spec, i would call junk.

[kripton2035]

I have made my choice on the Cetus printer, but as the european stocks are fairly (too) low, I still have'nt bought it (yet)

[Monkeh]

Prusa make printers, kit or pre-assembled, for sub-$1000 which work perfectly well.

Cheaper options include the likes of the Creality CR-10. It's a bit basic but it works well enough, and lots of room for improvement.

[djos]

Cetus, and pimp it up with heated bed. Very practical small 3D printer that is exceptionally good.
Beware that they don't allow you to use third party slicers (AFAIK), so you are locked in their software ecosystem.
I take my words back, they do support external slicers.

They do look excellent value! Personally I'll need one that is self leveling as I don't have room for one to be setup all the time.

[sarel.wagner]

I went a wee bit more expensive/better value... ZMorph printer $2400.00 at the time, but with 3d print, Laser and CNC tool heads.

[mairo]

On the cheap site I would say look at Zortax (not under $1k tho), and on the expensive site at HP Jet Fusion. I've worked with both and from an EE point of view I find these two the best at the two price corners. Mainly in terms of usability and the quality of the builds. Of course one may need some specific material, or a specific built volume, in which case some other printers may be a better option.

[wilhe_jo]

I got a FlyingBear Tornado... rock solid from mechanical point of view (linear rails - no rods!) and decent electronics (they'll send you some upgrade stepper drivers... nice silent tmc2208 ones...).

So far a bargain... but the software is... let's call it poor! (even the steps/mm settings were wrong!)

The best thing to do is to get a fresh marlin-firmware from the web and do all the calibration...

If you've some time to do this, go for a 500-700EURO printer... if not, I'm afraid, the sub 1k$ range is nothing for you...

73

[sokoloff]

I have the Monoprice clone of the FlashForge Creator Pro. It's fine for prototyping parts and I even make enclosures for a low-volume product that I sell using it. I print almost exclusively with ABS.

If I was starting now, I'd buy the Prusa, which is in a similar price range.

For ABS, you need a heated build plate; I built for 3 years on Kapton tape and switched to borosilicate glass about 6 months ago. I wish I'd have switched much earlier. The glass is 10x better than the tape. I hear good things about the Prusa plate, but have no firsthand experience (other than visiting the Prusa "factory" last year for a quick walkaround).


With any of the printers, there's a learning curve involved, on all of the mechanical, design, and software side, so don't expect to get perfect prints out the first week you have the printer.

[kaz911]

On the cheap site I would say look at Zortax (not under $1k tho), and on the expensive site at HP Jet Fusion. I've worked with both and from an EE point of view I find these two the best at the two price corners. Mainly in terms of usability and the quality of the builds. Of course one may need some specific material, or a specific built volume, in which case some other printers may be a better option.

I'm on the Zortrax M200 as well. I have not found or tried anything that rivals it at printing ABS. I just know it works and often leave it to print with no supervision.

The support used to be ultra rude and their way or the high way - but they have come off their high horse a bit lately.  It is not the latest and greatest but prints really nice. And now they even ...  allow using your own print materials to a certain degree.

The features I was promised when I bought it has never turned up (WiFi & Dual Head upgrade) and the dual head is the only reason I might change to Ultimaker 3 at some point.

2nd hand I have seen a few Zortrax M200 printers go for around $1200. And I think Gen I (kickstarter age) and Gen 4 hardware are the "best" for durability. There was some Gen 2/3 machines where they tried to cut cost and that did not work so well as far as I remember.

[e100]

I got a FlyingBear Tornado... rock solid from mechanical point of view (linear rails - no rods!) and decent electronics (they'll send you some upgrade stepper drivers... nice silent tmc2208 ones...).

So far a bargain... but the software is... let's call it poor! (even the steps/mm settings were wrong!)

The best thing to do is to get a fresh marlin-firmware from the web and do all the calibration...

If you've some time to do this, go for a 500-700EURO printer... if not, I'm afraid, the sub 1k$ range is nothing for you...

73

This youtube video says basically to avoid it unless you have lots of free time to fix the numerous problems.

[e100]

Cetus, and pimp it up with heated bed. Very practical small 3D printer that is exceptionally good.
Beware that they don't allow you to use third party slicers (AFAIK), so you are locked in their software ecosystem.
I take my words back, they do support external slicers.

Interesting review at

[e100]

I have the Monoprice clone of the FlashForge Creator Pro. It's fine for prototyping parts and I even make enclosures for a low-volume product that I sell using it. I print almost exclusively with ABS.

If I was starting now, I'd buy the Prusa, which is in a similar price range.

For ABS, you need a heated build plate; I built for 3 years on Kapton tape and switched to borosilicate glass about 6 months ago. I wish I'd have switched much earlier. The glass is 10x better than the tape. I hear good things about the Prusa plate, but have no firsthand experience (other than visiting the Prusa "factory" last year for a quick walkaround).


With any of the printers, there's a learning curve involved, on all of the mechanical, design, and software side, so don't expect to get perfect prints out the first week you have the printer.

Prusa setup guide.

Good to see the creator actually demoing their own product.

[kripton2035]

another (technical) review for the cetus :

and for the heated bed :

[wilhe_jo]

I got a FlyingBear Tornado... rock solid from mechanical point of view (linear rails - no rods!) and decent electronics (they'll send you some upgrade stepper drivers... nice silent tmc2208 ones...).

So far a bargain... but the software is... let's call it poor! (even the steps/mm settings were wrong!)

The best thing to do is to get a fresh marlin-firmware from the web and do all the calibration...

If you've some time to do this, go for a 500-700EURO printer... if not, I'm afraid, the sub 1k$ range is nothing for you...

73

This youtube video says basically to avoid it unless you have lots of free time to fix the numerous problems.

well, just listen to 6:20 .... it's built fantastic.. the electronic's ok, but the rest is crap.
The missing part-cooling fan is actually really bad but I made one on the machine... so it's not totally useless from the beginning
A tmc2208 came some 2 weeks after the printer from china... makes it nice and quite.
The z-axis is a little weak point (as for all printers having 2 lead screws)... but you can life with that.

I need to confess, I forget about the AC/DC thing... but if you've opened one of these open-frame things, you'll always replace them!

So, as I said, you'll need time to calibrate everything, then it's no bad deal... I got my for under 500Euro delivered from within the EU!

That's ok for a printer without any plastic parts (ok, bowden tube, drag chain, fan blades,... are plasitc).

But did I mention that you'll need quite some time and patience to get it working properly ?

Ideally it would consume ABS plastic filament, or some other plastic that can tolerate outdoor conditions.

ABS is not the only plastic suited for outdoor use... PET-G is great and easy to print! (but not es cheap as ABS).
I printed this nicely on my old i3 clone!

73

[phil from seattle]

3D printing is not anywhere close to turnkey.  Even if you have a perfect printer, you will need to experiment with the filaments.  Each one is different and needs to get dialed in to get good quality results. Same material, different manufacturer requires different settings (usually at least temperature). Even same material and same manufacturer but different colors takes tweaking. And, there are a lot settings to fuss with.

And machine setup and tuning is a big part of the process.  There's a reason why so many prints on thingaverse are upgrades for 3D printers.  I think it's really cool that machine can be used to upgrade itself but some view that as a detour from the original goal when they got the machine.

Also, the comment about .1 mm resolution is misleading.  You can get that resolution in the Z axis but a .1mm nozzle, if you can find one, is going to KILL your speed. Heck, .1mm Z resolution with a fat nozzle will kill your speed. I usually print with .4 nozzle and .25 Z slice and that takes a couple of hours for a relatively simple print.  Same print with .1/.1 will take 10X longer. And all it takes is one hiccup to ruin your print.

You will need to learn a lot about 3D printing to get good prints. I think it is on the same level of complexity as metal machining.  Materials, techniques, machine - lots to learn.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to discourage you. I love 3D printing, it opens a lot of doors, but expect a reasonably steep learning curve to get good quality prints. And, expect to take a lot of time and fiddling to get those prints.

[kaz911]

3D printing is not anywhere close to turnkey.  Even if you have a perfect printer, you will need to experiment with the filaments.  Each one is different and needs to get dialed in to get good quality results. Same material, different manufacturer requires different settings (usually at least temperature). Even same material and same manufacturer but different colors takes tweaking. And, there are a lot settings to fuss with.

And machine setup and tuning is a big part of the process.  There's a reason why so many prints on thingaverse are upgrades for 3D printers.  I think it's really cool that machine can be used to upgrade itself but some view that as a detour from the original goal when they got the machine.

Also, the comment about .1 mm resolution is misleading.  You can get that resolution in the Z axis but a .1mm nozzle, if you can find one, is going to KILL your speed. Heck, .1mm Z resolution with a fat nozzle will kill your speed. I usually print with .4 nozzle and .25 Z slice and that takes a couple of hours for a relatively simple print.  Same print with .1/.1 will take 10X longer. And all it takes is one hiccup to ruin your print.

You will need to learn a lot about 3D printing to get good prints. I think it is on the same level of complexity as metal machining.  Materials, techniques, machine - lots to learn.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to discourage you. I love 3D printing, it opens a lot of doors, but expect a reasonably steep learning curve to get good quality prints. And, expect to take a lot of time and fiddling to get those prints.

Your statement is correct for most 3D printers but a few like the Zortrax works out of the box with their filaments if you don't fiddle with settings in their software. I do .19 layers in ABS and have never changed anything but how many top or bottom layers to include. And learn how to orient prints for best results. That is why I use the Zortrax despite the company being a PITA.

I had an Ultimaker standard before and that I had to mod and experiment with. But not so with the M200 - just press print and out it comes. The only upgrade I'm contemplating is either Ultimaker 3 - or get a new V2 head + new heated bed for the M200 as large prints can warp on the Gen 1 heated bed I have.

[hagster]

Many of the cheap printers are pretty good these days.

I have had a Wanhao i3 for a few years now and its been really good and very reliable.

From what I have seen you wont get anything much better than a genuine Prussa MK3 even at double the cost. But with only slightly more hastle you can get nearly the same quality out of a CR10 or Tevo Tornado and bigger build volume for half the cost of that.

Personally I would rather have 2 or 3 $400 machines over a single $2000 machine.

[e100]

Many of the cheap printers are pretty good these days.

I have had a Wanhao i3 for a few years now and its been really good and very reliable.

From what I have seen you wont get anything much better than a genuine Prussa MK3 even at double the cost. But with only slightly more hastle you can get nearly the same quality out of a CR10 or Tevo Tornado and bigger build volume for half the cost of that.

Personally I would rather have 2 or 3 $400 machines over a single $2000 machine.

Wanhao Duplicator i3 Plus review

[Fraser]

I have owned both the Tiertime UP! Mini and UP! BOX printers. For those unaware, the CETUS is a Tiertime manufactured printer that has been simplified to lower cost. A cut down, but very similar, motherboard is used.

Both my Mini and BOX printers worked straight out of the box and produce excellent prints with ABS filament.

I still have the UP! Box and it produces superb prints with the official UP! Filaments. It can take other makes and types of filament as well. I cannot recommend UP! Printers enough. I hear all manner of horror stories regarding set up of 3D printers and the continuous tinkering needed to keep them 'in tune' . No such experiences with two UP! Mini's and the UP! Box.

Tiertime UP! Printers use 'in-house' STL printing software and slicer. It is well developed however and is one reason for the printers excellent performance. A chap in HK has created a replacement CPU board that converts the UP! Printers and Cetus (a cut down UP! PLUS 2) to Smoothieware and GCODE. He makes 3 versions of CPU board.... USB, USB + Ethernet, USB + Wi-Fi. His eBay shop is tinyfab.xyz and it contains some useful upgrades for Tiertime UP! and CETUS printer owners

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/WIFI-GCODE-CPU-for-Tiertime-UP-plus-2-mini-cetus-3D-printer-by-tinyfab/222768302327?hash=item33de0688f7:g:t6cAAOSwnCFaP-P0

Upgraded build platform temperature controller for UP! mini etc

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/HEATBED-CTRL-UP-mini-heated-bed-PID-Controller-Driver-by-tinyfab/222561351998?hash=item33d1b0b93e:g:geEAAOSw8d5ZUoc6

Cetus heated bed + CPU bundle

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/BUNDLE-TinyFab-CPU-WIFI-Heatbed-Driver-for-cetus-3D-printer/222768307464?_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIM.MBE%26ao%3D2%26asc%3D49925%26meid%3D153e645a5d9747758accdd6dddd00b58%26pid%3D100005%26rk%3D2%26rkt%3D6%26sd%3D222768302327%26itm%3D222768307464&_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851

For anyone wanting a 'turn key' 3D printing solution, I can certainly recommend Tiertime printers. They just work, no fuss, no bother, just great quality prints and easy support material removal

IMHO, life is too short to waste on a 3D printer that, though cheaper, requires lots of fine tuning and messing about to achieve decent quality prints. I print in ABS as it is easy to work with, sand, paint and glue. For ABS you need a good quality printer with heated bed and preferably an enclosed print chamber that remains warm during printing. Stratasys know this and hold the Patent for the heated build chamber.

Take a look at this video on YouTube:

http://youtu.be/U9FMVjAEdzo

The comments on the UP! Mini being ABS only are out of date. The new software supports ABS and PLA, plus it can set the Extruder temperature. The step height is also down to 0.15mm in the new software. The build platform sits at 60C as supplied, but is easily modified to work at 80C+ or unheated for PLA. This printer model and s now quite old but it never needed ant serious issues fixing so even an early unit works as well as the last ones produced. It was 'well sorted' from the start.

Fraser

[hagster]

I have hears good things about the Up printers too.

On the OP's original question.

There is no price threshold where printers suddenly become good. There are good cheap printers and bad expensive machines. Price is a very weak predictor of quality in 3Dprinting.

[Kean]

I'm another one who can happily recommend the UP! machines, especially if youre a first time 3D printer who just wants a machine that works.  I've been running an UP! Plus for many years, and it has been great as a first 3D printer.  It has even printed a whole bunch of small enclosures for animal tracking devices I sell, which get some serious abuse in the field - they get coated with 2-part resin after printing for additional strength & water resistance.

I recently decided to get a machine with a larger print area.  I considered the UP! Box, but couldn't really justify the price for my usage - especially as I've been saving up for a new scope.  I also considered the CR10 as it has had a lot of great reviews, but I mainly want to print ABS and it isn't ideal for that.  In the end I decided on the JGAurora A5.  Despite some not great reviews, it looked good for my application, was available for around AU$500 delivered, and there is open source replacement firmware for it.  I've been using it with Simplify 3D and it seems to do a great job, but you do need to customise your settings for both the machine, the material, and the parts being printed.  I'm still holding back on my verdict of the "diamond" glass bed - it works well, but not sure how long the surface finish will last.

[Dubbie]

Does anyone here have a printer that is NOT FDM? I’ve been looking at the form 2. I’m not interested in the poor resolution and surface finish of filament types. Anyone have any experience in that area?

[plazma]

Check out this sub 500€ DLP UV resin printer https://youtu.be/5YrUQOYLoK0

[djos]

Check out this sub 500€ DLP UV resin printer https://youtu.be/5YrUQOYLoK0

Oh wow, that's awesome!