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Author Topic: DIY reflow oven - suitable UK/EU candidates  (Read 17642 times)

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Offline doobedoobedo

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Re: DIY reflow oven - suitable UK/EU candidates
« Reply #25 on: April 25, 2016, 05:39:38 AM »
I've converted one of those. I got it in Aldi branded as 'Crofton'.

It's a little slow to heat up but does the job. I've been thinking about adding a couple more heating elements if I can find another one cheap enough.
 

Offline timgiles

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Re: DIY reflow oven - suitable UK/EU candidates
« Reply #26 on: April 25, 2016, 10:16:42 PM »
I have one (Gourmetmaxx Infrarot-Ofen 9 L) and it is on the way this morning from Amazon.de to me (in Sweden). I have ordered a 450W element and likely will get a second in addition to the 1000W ish it has as standard. Initially going with the ControLeo2 controller but also wondering about rolling my own later in the year.

I was wondering if I should install the 3rd (and 4th) in the bottom or top or both.

Looking forward to getting it up and running soon - have a four layer board and two 2 layer board coming in end of May that will be perfect for reflow.
 

Offline doobedoobedo

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Re: DIY reflow oven - suitable UK/EU candidates
« Reply #27 on: April 26, 2016, 01:25:48 AM »
I rolled my own arduino based controller. It was pretty easy really.


 

Offline EPLan

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Re: DIY reflow oven - suitable UK/EU candidates
« Reply #28 on: April 30, 2016, 06:27:23 PM »
I rolled my own arduino based controller. It was pretty easy really.

Are you getting the 1.5C/s rise the German site displayed?
 

Offline wilfred

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Re: DIY reflow oven - suitable UK/EU candidates
« Reply #29 on: April 30, 2016, 07:07:24 PM »
Nice looking oven, but not surprising that it under-performs.  This is a very large oven (lots of thermal mass) and at 1.3kW it is under-powered.  This can be remedied though:
1. Add a lot of insulation, both inside and outside the oven chamber.  Don't skimp here - you'll regret it later
2. Add a thin aluminium (or copper) sheet to rest your PCB's on.  Aluminium and copper (used by heat sinks) conduct heat far better than steel.  Also, a solid sheet is better than the steel grate that comes with the oven - unless you like tan lines on your PCB's  :)
You might want to rest the aluminium sheet on top of the steel grate, which is fine.  Just remember to remove as many of the grate bars as possible to reduce thermal mass.
3. You should consider adding an additional heating element, especially if you plan to use lead-free solder paste.  The rate of rise of temperature in the reflow phase is pretty steep.

Reducing hot and cold spots is very important.  A well insulated, powerful oven means the heating elements don't have to be on 100% of the time.  As you might imagine, a brightly glowing element can easily create a hot spot.  Another thing to consider is the direction of the heat; ideally the top heating elements are not used much to minimize the exposure of the components to heat.  This is especially true if the oven's elements are infrared, which is better absorbed by dark components (like microcontrollers) and reflected by lighter ones.  It is good to see your oven uses resistive elements - this is a plus.

What do you advise as suitable insulation? Would locating all the elements below the PCB be better than two under and 2 above?
Why is resistive elements a plus?
 

Offline doobedoobedo

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Re: DIY reflow oven - suitable UK/EU candidates
« Reply #30 on: April 30, 2016, 10:47:35 PM »
I rolled my own arduino based controller. It was pretty easy really.

Are you getting the 1.5C/s rise the German site displayed?

No. That's why I want more heating elements. I've already insulated using fibreglass from fire blankets. I'd say I get ~1C/s.
 

Offline EPLan

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Re: DIY reflow oven - suitable UK/EU candidates
« Reply #31 on: May 01, 2016, 04:39:44 AM »
Are you getting the 1.5C/s rise the German site displayed?

No. That's why I want more heating elements. I've already insulated using fibreglass from fire blankets. I'd say I get ~1C/s.

Ah, I actually ordered one based on the CCC link, and like you I cannot get anything more than almost 1C/s max no matter what I've tried(I have the insulation etc). Bit confused as to how the guy got that figure - the Chaos Computer Club is pretty well known.

Do you have any elements(any links to products?) in mind? I'm unfamiliar with all this but it seems to be a choice between single elements plus connectors or an all-in-one unit like this(oven seems to be 250mm internally so a tight but possible fit - EDIT: or maybe not, I'll have to investigate).
« Last Edit: May 01, 2016, 05:03:41 AM by EPLan »
 

Offline timgiles

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Re: DIY reflow oven - suitable UK/EU candidates
« Reply #32 on: May 01, 2016, 06:26:28 AM »
Well I dont know about the germans build, but I plan to :

1. Use high temperature sealent to  seal the oven interior
2. Line the inside with car exhaust blanket rated to 1000oC - Ill use exhaust paste to ensure it sticks - I have a few different high temp pastes to try
3. Cover this with gold reflective fabric/tape (Reflect-a-gold) - almost the whole interior
4. Cover most of the glass door with the same gold tape, leaving a viewing slot
5. On the outside, between the over wall and exterior wall - insulated with the same blanket fabric
6. I am installing a normal heating element (not quartz) in the bottom of the over as a booster element (450W) - but I do like the 1kW quartz element you posted.... so this might find its way in there if the 450W is found wanting. I am thinking it might be a good replacement for the 500W quartz top element in it as standard.

My aim is to use the gold tape to reflect as much radiation around the inside and use the internal and external blankets to limit the thermal loss. My oven arrives early this week coming (1st week May). Ill take pictures and post results once the build is complete.

Good luck with your builds.
 

Offline timgiles

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Re: DIY reflow oven - suitable UK/EU candidates
« Reply #33 on: May 01, 2016, 04:07:16 PM »
If you need an additional heather element - you could try these cartridge elements:

           ebay search for: heating element cartridge

and add in your voltage (ie. 240V or 110V)

As mentioned, I went for a 450W element. The advice I got was to add it to the bottom of the oven. I will add a section of 0.8 or 1mm aluminium directly underneath the element so it does not burn the additional insulation. Proximity can be an issue for insulation even when it is rated much higher than the temperatures you'll get to in the oven.

If you are looking for the gold reflective tape - ebay search for: Reflect A Gold reflective tape

 
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Offline nali

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Re: DIY reflow oven - suitable UK/EU candidates
« Reply #34 on: May 01, 2016, 05:52:33 PM »
If you need an additional heather element - you could try these cartridge elements:

           ebay search for: heating element cartridge

and add in your voltage (ie. 240V or 110V)

As mentioned, I went for a 450W element. The advice I got was to add it to the bottom of the oven. I will add a section of 0.8 or 1mm aluminium directly underneath the element so it does not burn the additional insulation. Proximity can be an issue for insulation even when it is rated much higher than the temperatures you'll get to in the oven.

If you are looking for the gold reflective tape - ebay search for: Reflect A Gold reflective tape

I replaced the elements in my oven with quartz elements salvaged from an A4 laser printer fuser unit which were almost exactly the same size. I can't remember their power but I think they're 500-ish W.

For covering the glass door I bought one of those disposable meat roasting trays from the supermarket which are basically alu foil but thick enough to hold shape once you've cut out a template (with holding tabs) from the base and fitted it around the glass.

 

Offline doobedoobedo

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Re: DIY reflow oven - suitable UK/EU candidates
« Reply #35 on: May 03, 2016, 10:52:36 AM »
If you need an additional heather element - you could try these cartridge elements:

           ebay search for: heating element cartridge

and add in your voltage (ie. 240V or 110V)

As mentioned, I went for a 450W element. The advice I got was to add it to the bottom of the oven. I will add a section of 0.8 or 1mm aluminium directly underneath the element so it does not burn the additional insulation. Proximity can be an issue for insulation even when it is rated much higher than the temperatures you'll get to in the oven.

If you are looking for the gold reflective tape - ebay search for: Reflect A Gold reflective tape
Cheers for the tip on the heating elements. They're cheap enough to just take a punt. I went for 3x300W ones. I might add some fins to aid in heat transfer if they need it.

I'm insulating externally with glass fibre cloth from cheap fire blankets  (ebay search for 'fire blanket' ;)) I used about 4 or 5 layers on all the metal sides, pop-riveted in place. I'm not bothering with the gold tape.
 

Offline blacksheeplogic

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Re: DIY reflow oven - suitable UK/EU candidates
« Reply #36 on: May 03, 2016, 12:32:21 PM »
No. That's why I want more heating elements. I've already insulated using fibreglass from fire blankets. I'd say I get ~1C/s.

I don't really see the issue you are trying to solve. The bulk time where this would have significant time impact is during the preheat phase and while 1C/s is a little low it's not outrageous, if your target is 150C within an initial temp of 20C  (sensor on the PCB), that's around 130 seconds at 1C/s, and at 1.5C/s it's 87 seconds. The remaining profile lets say is around 400 seconds including cooling your looking at 530 seconds verses 487 seconds which is <10%.

A modified toaster oven is not going to hit 3C/s to 5C/s peek rise during reflow, but thats OK with a 1.5C/s vrs 1.0C/s any component that fails due to that difference was a candidate for early failure anyway and probably a issue in the profile anyway.
 

Offline microcircuit

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Re: DIY reflow oven - suitable UK/EU candidates
« Reply #37 on: November 22, 2016, 02:34:58 PM »
I already own a T962A oven which has an inaccurate temp/timing controller. I am therefore looking at fitting an accurate controller so that it is a useful SMD oven. Has anyone any information if the ControLeo2 would be suitable for the T962A.
Phil.
 

Offline TIOUK

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Re: DIY reflow oven - suitable UK/EU candidates
« Reply #38 on: November 22, 2016, 10:21:44 PM »
If you have a T-962 you need to flash the firmware here: https://github.com/UnifiedEngineering/T-962-improvements  I had great results.
 
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Offline l0wside

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Re: DIY reflow oven - suitable UK/EU candidates
« Reply #39 on: November 23, 2016, 01:08:36 AM »
The modification is perfect to spend a relaxed evening, with a DS18B20 (or MAX31820), some Kapton tape, a leftover FET or BJT, and a USB to serial adapter, the T-962 is updated easily within two hours.

Keep in mind, however, that it is still an IR oven which does not have a sensor on the PCB. After setting the peak temperature to 250°C, my PCBs turned black. The smell is still hanging in my basement. Even if the temperature at the sensor may have been 250°C, it must have exceeded 300°C on the board itself.
 

Offline microcircuit

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Re: DIY reflow oven - suitable UK/EU candidates
« Reply #40 on: November 23, 2016, 10:59:41 AM »
Thanks for the response, I am aware of the mod and the problems that you both mention (TIOUK & IOwside) I was looking at completely replacing the controller to prevent the problem IOwside mentioned.
There was a controller available from ESTechnical which solved the problems with the T962 and T962A and turned it into a reliable SMD oven unfortunately this is no longer available for the foreseeable future due to their premises catching fire.
I was therefore looking at other controllers and the ControLeo2 seemed to be the best solution but before committing to this controller I was hoping to find further information from anyone that had experience in converting a T962A with a ControLeo2.   
 

Offline l0wside

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Re: DIY reflow oven - suitable UK/EU candidates
« Reply #41 on: November 23, 2016, 11:05:19 PM »
microcircuit, I do not think the controller hardware is bad. The oven has three issues: First, it is infrared, which will never be able to provide proper heat distribution. Look for hot air reflow or vapor phase to improve on this. Second, the included firmware sucks, but this can be fixed (see the link which TIOUK mentioned). Third, the sensor is not on the board, but somewhere off. This might simply be a mechanical issue, but I have not yet investigated in detail. Replacing the controller board will not solve the third problem.
 

Offline bit.cyber

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Re: DIY reflow oven - suitable UK/EU candidates
« Reply #42 on: January 29, 2017, 10:10:33 PM »
So I've been looking at suitable toaster ovens that are easily available in France (four électrique / mini four). Amazon is easy and so this is where I've been looking.

Some candidates are:
(The last one doesn't have the size listed but looks small'ish based on the external dimensions of 28 x 41 x 27 cm. But it looks OK and should be easy to mount the door opener as part of the ControLeo2 controller I intend to use.)

Any thoughts on what would work best?
Should I focus on smaller size rather than power, given I'll modify the oven with one of more additional heating elements? And is convection something that is advantageous or not, and given the price point likely not available. Or do they all fall into the 'much the muchness' category?

Thanks in advance.
Just hanging around... (And do visit lagrangianpoint.net for the latest interesting projects underway)
 

Online mikeselectricstuff

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Re: DIY reflow oven - suitable UK/EU candidates
« Reply #43 on: January 29, 2017, 10:38:26 PM »
So I've been looking at suitable toaster ovens that are easily available in France (four électrique / mini four). Amazon is easy and so this is where I've been looking.

Some candidates are:
(The last one doesn't have the size listed but looks small'ish based on the external dimensions of 28 x 41 x 27 cm. But it looks OK and should be easy to mount the door opener as part of the ControLeo2 controller I intend to use.)

Any thoughts on what would work best?
Should I focus on smaller size rather than power, given I'll modify the oven with one of more additional heating elements? And is convection something that is advantageous or not, and given the price point likely not available. Or do they all fall into the 'much the muchness' category?

Thanks in advance.
If you can, it's worth going into a big store where you can actually see them, so you can check details like how the door opens, visibility etc.
Youtube channel:Taking wierd stuff apart. Very apart.
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Day Job: Mostly LEDs
 

Offline IconicPCB

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Re: DIY reflow oven - suitable UK/EU candidates
« Reply #44 on: January 30, 2017, 08:44:04 AM »
Convection ( fan forced ) is very important.
The effect of the fan is to increase effective thermal mass of the oven and provide a better distribution of heat to the product being soldered.
 

Offline jgfrm

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Re: DIY reflow oven - suitable UK/EU candidates
« Reply #45 on: April 26, 2017, 02:59:39 AM »
Hi Guys,

I want to build an oven based on the ControLeo2.
However, here in The Netherlands, the Boom Mat seems to be unavailable.
The mat has a reflection part that ensures that the heat is spread over the board.
Does anyone has a recommendation to buy the Boom Mat in NL/Europe, or a similar product?

Best,

-- Jaap
 

Online plazma

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Re: DIY reflow oven - suitable UK/EU candidates
« Reply #46 on: April 26, 2017, 03:44:52 AM »
Is this model any good?


It's less than 40€ at Lidl.

Sent from my PLK-L01 using Tapatalk

« Last Edit: April 26, 2017, 03:47:52 AM by plazma »
 

Offline Mark

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Re: DIY reflow oven - suitable UK/EU candidates
« Reply #47 on: April 26, 2017, 08:00:05 PM »
I used a Cookworks mini oven from Argos, the models may change slightly but it's very similar to the Cookworks KR-107-23 (C), see manual for KWS1525R-F2U:

http://www.argos.co.uk/product/4234834
It is 4 element 1500W, fan assisted. 




Other parts:
0.9mm thick aluminium sheet for the shelf (ebay)
6" boost element Cartridge Heater, 350W, RS components # 860-7081
Kudom 10 A Solid State Relays x3 KSIM380D10-L
ControLeo 2 (ebay USA). 
Reflect-a-gold for oven interior (ebay)
Ceramic wool for insulation (ebay)

Using Multicore MP200 solder paste and a 215C peak, I get good results. 


« Last Edit: April 26, 2017, 08:01:54 PM by Mark »
 

Offline Lomax

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Re: DIY reflow oven - suitable UK/EU candidates
« Reply #48 on: April 27, 2017, 07:20:44 AM »
Using Multicore MP200 solder paste and a 215C peak, I get good results.

You do indeed - impressive! Is that a "weapon of mass destruction" (Weller WMD) I see in the background?

Edit: "Weapon of mass desoldering"?
« Last Edit: April 27, 2017, 07:22:33 AM by Lomax »
 

Offline floobydust

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Re: DIY reflow oven - suitable UK/EU candidates
« Reply #49 on: April 27, 2017, 02:51:34 PM »
I use the OsPID, Open Source PiD controller for DIY reflow oven http://ospid.com/blog/
Arduino doing the control, so it's easy to make changes.
 


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