Inconsistent PCBWay expirience.

[ataradov]

So I had a few orders with PCBWay, and so far I had no problems. But on a last order, I've been told that solder mask bridge between the pins must be at least 0.3 mm wide. And this is not really possible for 0.5 mm TQFP packages.

The trick is, they already made a few board with the same exact parts, and bridges are there.

So did my new order got assigned to worst equipment? Did they loose confidence in the process in those few weeks between the orders?

Communication is very poor, but what I managed to gather is that the source of the problem is black solder mask. But I never got a response on what types of solder mask will work with this board.

This is not a huge problem for prototypes with TQFP packages, but this board has a few QFN-32's, and those absolutely need solder mask between the pins.

Anyway, I've placed the order with Elecrow for now, but getting some clarification on this would be nice.

[amitchell]

I have had that issue with the black soldermask before, the blue and green did not have the same issue.

[digsys]

I've had a few episodes of "huh" ?? with them, and I agree, they really don't seem to understand the question you ask OR a correct way to answer it.
I (have) look(ed) after a few chinese engineers in my time, and often it is the latter. Even after trying to explain / educate, I don't feel they understand the issue.
For PCBWay, I send in at least 5 blocks of work at a time, and cross my fingers that they all go through fine :-) I have had a couple blocks totally fail, but for the price and delivery time,
I accept it as "normal" :-)  I am getting smarter though, of figuring out the "rules". Besides, I doubt there is any chinese based company that has perfect communication, and never
screws up on a job.

[marshallh]

PCBWay jobs out or rotates PCB orders between several fabs. The only other possibility is they have a wide range of extremely different equipment pieced together inhouse and you get the one with the least traffic.

I've done both large and small PCB and PCBA orders thru them and I've never had any trouble with soldermask slivers. I've tried several soldermask colors but never black (absolute worst pick IMHO)

[ataradov]

More bizzare behavior from them. I just got contacted by spammer from AllPcb over Skype, so I asked for clarification on this subject. And basically got confirmation that black mask is the source of the problem. Ok, fine.

So I decided to submit the same order to AllPcb, just to check it out. First of all, system said that I have no NC dril info, which is totally not true, since it was the same exact archive I submitted earlier to PcbWay, and it does contain *.xln file.

Ok, minor issue, skipped that, and manual verification process went fine.

But then a bait and switch happened, and apparently even with green masks, those bridges are extra, and $5 turned into $13+.

[ansonbao]

So did my new order got assigned to worst equipment? Did they loose confidence in the process in those few weeks between the orders?
Communication is very poor, but what I managed to gather is that the source of the problem is black solder mask. But I never got a response on what types of solder mask will work with this board.

The equipment is the same since we upgrade production line last year.I communicated with our factory about your question,they said is to ensure conformance rate.In the future,if you think communicate with our sale not good,you can PM me here,I will help you solve it.

[ansonbao]

But then a bait and switch happened, and apparently even with green masks, those bridges are extra, and $5 turned into $13+.

The reason of price change will be displayed in the order management page,you can check it,sorry for the inconvenience.

[ataradov]

The reason of price change will be displayed in the order management page,you can check it,sorry for the inconvenience.

I don't mind the price change itself, but I do mind the price change after I've already paid, and now end up owing more without even being asked.

I did a small survey yesterday, and so far I can only find one vendor that shows how type of solder mask and the minimum width on the solder mask affect the price - Seed Studio.

[ataradov]

Also, can you clarify your pricing for those bridges. So it appears on AllPcb I got charged additional $8, which is great, if I had any assurance that those boards would be actually made correctly.

From PCBWay rep, I've got this response "The higher price is different for different order quantity. Usually it will be higher around $200.  As most of your orders on our website is $5 for low discount. So the price difference is very high. And the time needed is about 7-8 days.".

So is it $8 or $200? Or is there really such a huge difference between AllPcb and PCBWay?

Can I still see the reason for a price increase on a cancelled order? And I can't seem to find it anywhere.

[Electro Detective]

Hey guys, is this a parallel thread re this company?

www.eevblog.com/forum/manufacture/pcbway-the-worst-service-and-manufacturer-ever-use/

[Gabriel Raby]

I also wonder why the boards in PCBway is so cheap? But my friend told me if you buy cheap, you will get cheap.

[Rbastler]

I also wonder why the boards in PCBway is so cheap? But my friend told me if you buy cheap, you will get cheap.

Exactly. Don't expect perfect PCBs at a low price...

[ataradov]

Well, I personally would not say that PCBWay are the worst. It is actually quite the opposite in my case.

There are communication issues at times, but realistically noting bad.

BTW, at the time of this problem, I also ordered the same boards at Elecrow and Seed Studio. Both ended up delivering the same kind of quality, but way-way slower for the same price. And those two have no visibility into the process whatsoever. Your thing just disappears for a couple weeks with no feedback.

So I would still recommend using PCBWay, if you are looking for economical solution. But your mileage may vary, of course.

And delivery from PCBWay was always on time in my case.

[ataradov]

So even though it MIGHT work or might even ALMOST ALWAYS work

And that's exactly what they did on some of my boards - simply attempted to make them, but they just dd not survive. HASL is a pretty violent process from a mechanical point of view, so I assume most of them got ripped during HASL stage.

You can clearly see more under-etching on surviving black traces, so it does seem like black mask is more prone to lateral etching.

In the end, it all worked out fine. I just had to be extra careful when soldering those QFN packages. This is not a problem at all for QFP.

[mrpackethead]

If you are using QFP's why are u using HASL?  HASL will never give you the flatness you need for reliable placement

[ataradov]

HASL?  Really?  When almost all the major eletronics markets in the world are moving to RoHS why even have non RoHS processes?

HASL can be leaded and lead-free. PCBWay gives an option, and they also have an option for ENIG. Both ENIG and lead-free HASL cost extra. Gold is probably just more expensive, but leaded HASL as a cheaper and default option is probably to stop people from using this prototyping service for real products.

[ataradov]

If you are using QFP's why are u using HASL?  HASL will never give you the flatness you need for reliable placement

I have not noticed any problems. I'm not sure if there is different quality to that process. In case of PCBWay, the resulting pads are flat enough for any practical application.

And I prefer HASL for prototypes, since it is easier to solder by hand.