Author Topic: New Suba Engineering PCB Microscope - Tagarno Killer?  (Read 3570 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline EEVblog

  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 27193
  • Country: au
    • EEVblog
Re: New Suba Engineering PCB Microscope - Tagarno Killer?
« Reply #25 on: September 09, 2018, 09:30:46 pm »
I never really did commercial PCB inspection (other then the odd board) but arent there certain defects that don't show up well on a video microscope but are easily seen on a 3d one?

Yes....to see it all the PCB needs to be tilted or use a mirror.

Yes, and this is why I was so impressed with the Suba. Near vertical PCB and I could focus on any point I wanted with ease.
 

Offline mikeselectricstuff

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 11603
  • Country: gb
    • Mike's Electric Stuff
Re: New Suba Engineering PCB Microscope - Tagarno Killer?
« Reply #26 on: September 09, 2018, 10:11:08 pm »
I wonder how long before the Chinese clone it  - from what I could tell it was a motorised lens driven by the the image content.
Youtube channel:Taking wierd stuff apart. Very apart.
Mike's Electric Stuff: High voltage, vintage electronics etc.
Day Job: Mostly LEDs
 

Offline mikeselectricstuff

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 11603
  • Country: gb
    • Mike's Electric Stuff
Re: New Suba Engineering PCB Microscope - Tagarno Killer?
« Reply #27 on: September 09, 2018, 10:12:42 pm »
The ultimate microscope experience is still the Vision Engineering Mantis.
They are stunning for inspection and assembly. If you need video for presentation or recording - they don't offer anything super special though.

I'm continually frustrated at seeing a stunning image in the Mantis and then not being able to capture it, even a still image. The image quality is just garbage  >:(
If you set it up right you can get some reasonable images pointing the camera at the screen, but you really want a trinocular setup to snap the current view. I suspect something about the optics makes it not so simple.
Youtube channel:Taking wierd stuff apart. Very apart.
Mike's Electric Stuff: High voltage, vintage electronics etc.
Day Job: Mostly LEDs
 

Offline mrpackethead

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 2092
  • Country: nz
Re: New Suba Engineering PCB Microscope - Tagarno Killer?
« Reply #28 on: September 10, 2018, 07:34:41 am »
The ultimate microscope experience is still the Vision Engineering Mantis.
They are stunning for inspection and assembly. If you need video for presentation or recording - they don't offer anything super special though.

I'm continually frustrated at seeing a stunning image in the Mantis and then not being able to capture it, even a still image. The image quality is just garbage  >:(

You dont' use a screwdriver to put nails in.    The mantis excels at what its good at.     
On a quest to find increasingly complicated ways to blink things
 

Offline taemun

  • Regular Contributor
  • *
  • Posts: 85
  • Country: au
Re: New Suba Engineering PCB Microscope - Tagarno Killer?
« Reply #29 on: September 12, 2018, 11:03:58 pm »
I wonder how long before the Chinese clone it  - from what I could tell it was a motorised lens driven by the the image content.

The Chinese don't need to clone this, they built it.

I'll need to dig up some photos, but I bought a microscope with 90% of this performance from Elvis optical in Seg Plaza (same autofocus, same features/UI, same objective lens on the bottom, same mount, different shape box above the objective). It was about 2000 RMB (400 AUD) for the kit, not including LCD monitor. Spits out 1080p60, no perceived latency (1~2 frames latency).

Surprisingly good optical quality.

I think Suba have fine tuned some of the optics to get the longer throw, but it's clearly from the same actual manufacturer - the autofocus, USB mouse support and associated on-screen UI is a dead ringer.
« Last Edit: September 12, 2018, 11:05:52 pm by taemun »
 
The following users thanked this post: mrpackethead


Offline taemun

  • Regular Contributor
  • *
  • Posts: 85
  • Country: au
Re: New Suba Engineering PCB Microscope - Tagarno Killer?
« Reply #31 on: September 12, 2018, 11:51:18 pm »
Respect! Your AliExpress-fu is strong!  :)

I've attached a couple of pictures of mine. Got it about a year ago.
 

Offline taemun

  • Regular Contributor
  • *
  • Posts: 85
  • Country: au
Re: New Suba Engineering PCB Microscope - Tagarno Killer?
« Reply #32 on: September 12, 2018, 11:55:55 pm »
Bonus Shenzhen market offset-viewing video microscope attached.

Just a couple well-aligned mirrors after the objective - works surprisingly well.
« Last Edit: September 13, 2018, 12:10:07 am by taemun »
 

Offline EEVblog

  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 27193
  • Country: au
    • EEVblog
Re: New Suba Engineering PCB Microscope - Tagarno Killer?
« Reply #33 on: September 13, 2018, 12:36:54 am »
I'm continually frustrated at seeing a stunning image in the Mantis and then not being able to capture it, even a still image. The image quality is just garbage  >:(
If you set it up right you can get some reasonable images pointing the camera at the screen, but you really want a trinocular setup to snap the current view. I suspect something about the optics makes it not so simple.

That's how I get my Mantis shots, it's tricky but works. Still not nearly as good or as bright as what you see in the viewfinder.
 

Offline EEVblog

  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 27193
  • Country: au
    • EEVblog
Re: New Suba Engineering PCB Microscope - Tagarno Killer?
« Reply #34 on: September 13, 2018, 12:44:56 am »
Respect! Your AliExpress-fu is strong!  :)
I've attached a couple of pictures of mine. Got it about a year ago.

Well there you go, seems the dude lied to me. He said he had someone develop the UI app for him. Did say he got the camera sensor and optics from China though as you'd expect.
 

Offline mikeselectricstuff

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 11603
  • Country: gb
    • Mike's Electric Stuff
Re: New Suba Engineering PCB Microscope - Tagarno Killer?
« Reply #35 on: September 13, 2018, 01:03:18 am »
Respect! Your AliExpress-fu is strong!  :)
I've attached a couple of pictures of mine. Got it about a year ago.

Well there you go, seems the dude lied to me. He said he had someone develop the UI app for him. Did say he got the camera sensor and optics from China though as you'd expect.
maybe they have done a new app - with the avarage quality of Chinese Software I'd be surprised if it was anywhere near perfect. The vid in the Aliexpress link I posted does show quite a lot of focus hunting, though that may be down to the settings.
Youtube channel:Taking wierd stuff apart. Very apart.
Mike's Electric Stuff: High voltage, vintage electronics etc.
Day Job: Mostly LEDs
 

Offline EEVblog

  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 27193
  • Country: au
    • EEVblog
Re: New Suba Engineering PCB Microscope - Tagarno Killer?
« Reply #36 on: September 13, 2018, 01:13:13 am »
maybe they have done a new app - with the avarage quality of Chinese Software I'd be surprised if it was anywhere near perfect. The vid in the Aliexpress link I posted does show quite a lot of focus hunting, though that may be down to the settings.

The menu system looks identical at least.
He did tell me it had to be set up a certain way (as in zoom vs distance) to get the big focus range.
 

Offline taemun

  • Regular Contributor
  • *
  • Posts: 85
  • Country: au
Re: New Suba Engineering PCB Microscope - Tagarno Killer?
« Reply #37 on: September 13, 2018, 03:59:58 pm »
Mine has some issue with focus hunting, but you get better at aiming the focus rectangle at a high contrast edge. You can also lock the focus plane, and nudge it up and down via the mouse.

Auto exposure works pretty well, and that's also lockable via the OSD.

Boot time isn't bad - maybe 15-20 seconds from memory. It does a full length focus hunt as a part of the boot process. We just left it on all day in the office.

Overall, the best microscope I've seen for showing a group of people something up on a TV/HDMI monitor - but I haven't played with a Tagarno other than in passing at a trade show.
 

Offline mrpackethead

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 2092
  • Country: nz
Re: New Suba Engineering PCB Microscope - Tagarno Killer?
« Reply #38 on: September 13, 2018, 04:26:50 pm »
I was pretty sure i'd seen very similar set ups in the SEG as well.   Nice cover on the SUBA one though.
On a quest to find increasingly complicated ways to blink things
 

Offline mrpackethead

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 2092
  • Country: nz
Re: New Suba Engineering PCB Microscope - Tagarno Killer?
« Reply #39 on: September 13, 2018, 05:38:00 pm »
Respect! Your AliExpress-fu is strong!  :)
I've attached a couple of pictures of mine. Got it about a year ago.

Well there you go, seems the dude lied to me. He said he had someone develop the UI app for him. Did say he got the camera sensor and optics from China though as you'd expect.

Going to do a debunking video Dave?
On a quest to find increasingly complicated ways to blink things
 

Offline mrpackethead

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 2092
  • Country: nz
Re: New Suba Engineering PCB Microscope - Tagarno Killer?
« Reply #40 on: September 14, 2018, 09:50:09 am »
Seems these are rapidlly becoming the thing.    And everyones claiming there's is unique..
https://www.smallsmt.biz/pcb-inspection/

When will everyone learn that unless you really do design somethign and it is unique that within a few days,  the internet will find ya out.
On a quest to find increasingly complicated ways to blink things
 

Offline EEVblog

  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 27193
  • Country: au
    • EEVblog
Re: New Suba Engineering PCB Microscope - Tagarno Killer?
« Reply #41 on: September 14, 2018, 10:44:28 am »
Respect! Your AliExpress-fu is strong!  :)
I've attached a couple of pictures of mine. Got it about a year ago.
Well there you go, seems the dude lied to me. He said he had someone develop the UI app for him. Did say he got the camera sensor and optics from China though as you'd expect.
Going to do a debunking video Dave?

I've got one on order...
 
The following users thanked this post: thm_w, mrpackethead, AlanS

Offline maginnovision

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 298
  • Country: us
Re: New Suba Engineering PCB Microscope - Tagarno Killer?
« Reply #42 on: September 15, 2018, 11:07:02 am »
Almost sad, a well designed chinese product(presumably), and everyone else takes credit for it. What goes around comes around.
 
The following users thanked this post: AlanS

Offline mrpackethead

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 2092
  • Country: nz
Re: New Suba Engineering PCB Microscope - Tagarno Killer?
« Reply #43 on: September 15, 2018, 05:45:12 pm »
Respect! Your AliExpress-fu is strong!  :)
I've attached a couple of pictures of mine. Got it about a year ago.
Well there you go, seems the dude lied to me. He said he had someone develop the UI app for him. Did say he got the camera sensor and optics from China though as you'd expect.
Going to do a debunking video Dave?

I've got one on order...

tHANKS. I WAS very tempted.. but i'll wait and see what you come up with,.

On a quest to find increasingly complicated ways to blink things
 

Offline matthewpang

  • Contributor
  • Posts: 17
Re: New Suba Engineering PCB Microscope - Tagarno Killer?
« Reply #44 on: September 15, 2018, 06:04:05 pm »
Did some more digging . There seem to be two possible versions


Lower end (linked to by other posters above) "2D" version ~$600 - 10cm working distance

1) There seem to sell all variety of stands and accessories and there appear to be 2 versions of the brain box (one with the uSD/TF card and one without). As usual it took careful hunting of all the ali express listings (and diff-ing them) to come to the best version ($618 shipped to the US) :

https://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/Phone-PCB-CPU-SMD-Repair-Laboratory-IC-Check-Autofocus-1080P-60FPS-HDMI-Video-Industry-Auto-Focus/610200_32867109543.html?spm=2114.12010612.8148356.2.342311261IAYN2

This one has the uSD card AND the nice "boom stand" which gives you an extra arm as opposed to just height adjustment.

Another vendor has the same product (no screen but cheaper - $599 with free shipping)  http://www.lapsun.com/1080p-60fps-hdmi-auto-focus-microscope-camera-180x-lens-stand-sony-sensor-imx290_p1504.html

USB Mouse Input
HDMI Output
TF/uSD Card Storage

Higher End

1) 3D Version (~$1100) 10cm working distance 2D, 4cm working distance 3D

This one seems to have more features "3D" with the mirror trick mentioned above

http://www.lapsun.com/2d-3d-stereoscopic-180x-cmount-lens-1080p60fps-hdmi-industrial-cmount-digital-microscope-camera_p1518.html

USB Mouse Input
HDMI Output
TF/uSD Card Storage

2) "More expensive version of the "2D" version ~$1000) - 31cm working distance

http://www.lapsun.com/autofocus-optics-lens-1080p-60fps-hdmi-auto-focus-industrial-microscope-camera_p1510.html

It could be more expensive then the other 2D version because
a) 10cm -> 31 cm working distance (seem to be different modes with different field of views)
b) Supports "io equipment" (There appears to be a connector for wired remote button box/controller )  in addition to USB mouse input
d) Appears to have more polished software/UI (the software/UI on this one appear to be much closer to the SUBA in Dave's video.
e) Appears to have built in optical zoom
f) Could have better focus/optics - this one also has a noticeably longer body which suggests maybe there are more optics

Suspect this may be the higher end SUBA based on the larger working distance.



USB Mouse Input
External IO Controller Input
HDMI Output
TF/uSD Card Storage

Have a couple on order (and contacted Suba to cancel the original order) - will undoubtedly break into this thing and hack the firmware to add features and fun stuff.

Will report back here with details. 

PS: Thanks for the tiny hint on the livestream Dave :)

PPS: Sensor data : https://www.sony-semicon.co.jp/products_en/new_pro/february_2015/imx290_291_e.html
« Last Edit: September 15, 2018, 06:57:17 pm by matthewpang »
 
The following users thanked this post: thm_w, AlanS, ubbut

Offline IconicPCB

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 983
  • Country: au
Re: New Suba Engineering PCB Microscope - Tagarno Killer?
« Reply #45 on: September 15, 2018, 09:20:29 pm »
Many years ago an American company METRON OPTICS used to make a 3D inspection viewer based on mirrors not lens system.

It was an incredible experience viewing the image in 3d.

The image was formed in space and the user had a phenomenal degree of freedom using the viewer.

Sadly the viewer became extinct, could not compete with camera microscopes on price.

Metron are still in business( sort of) they still supply their consumables( marking inks)  and inspection mirrors.
 


Share me

Digg  Facebook  SlashDot  Delicious  Technorati  Twitter  Google  Yahoo
Smf