Author Topic: Newest Pace ADS200 station (tempting durability, and just over $200)  (Read 49275 times)

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Offline dolivas27

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Re: Newest Pace ADS200 production station (a JBC killer at $239??)
« Reply #100 on: March 23, 2018, 10:40:30 pm »
One other thing who decided to use fractions on the new AccuDrive tips and Decimal on the TD-100 tips?

Sure, makes it a pain to cross the sizes  :-- :--
 

Offline PACE-Worldwide

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Re: Newest Pace ADS200 production station (a JBC killer at $239??)
« Reply #101 on: March 23, 2018, 10:45:13 pm »


I fully understand on the tips, but we need to see some bevel tips one of the main reason I almost went with the Hakko.

Here are a few Hakko tip numbers I would like to see for sure. TC-BC1, T15-BC2, TC-BC12

Remember if you don't make them you can't sell them, and most people are not going to wait months for a tip if the job calls for it. :-DD

Plus, you said Pace decided to make less on the station and make it up on the tips.  :-+

Like I said earlier I spent almost as much on the tips as I did the station. Different jobs require different tips and I love having a selection on hand even if I only use it a few times at the cost of the new tips I will make my money back on one repair.   :-+ :-DD


I agree 100%, and we'll be adding tips in the near future. By the way, you should check out our "MiniWave" style tips, which are essentially Bevel tips that have a "well" built into them - they look like a spoon but transfer heat really well.
 
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Offline dolivas27

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Re: Newest Pace ADS200 production station (a JBC killer at $239??)
« Reply #102 on: March 23, 2018, 10:48:26 pm »


I fully understand on the tips, but we need to see some bevel tips one of the main reason I almost went with the Hakko.

Here are a few Hakko tip numbers I would like to see for sure. TC-BC1, T15-BC2, TC-BC12

Remember if you don't make them you can't sell them, and most people are not going to wait months for a tip if the job calls for it. :-DD

Plus, you said Pace decided to make less on the station and make it up on the tips.  :-+

Like I said earlier I spent almost as much on the tips as I did the station. Different jobs require different tips and I love having a selection on hand even if I only use it a few times at the cost of the new tips I will make my money back on one repair.   :-+ :-DD


I agree 100%, and we'll be adding tips in the near future. By the way, you should check out our "MiniWave" style tips, which are essentially Bevel tips that have a "well" built into them - they look like a spoon but transfer heat really well.

I ordered one in both standard and Ultra-Performance  :-+ :-+
 
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Offline PACE-Worldwide

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Re: Newest Pace ADS200 production station (a JBC killer at $239??)
« Reply #103 on: March 23, 2018, 10:57:54 pm »

I also don’t understand the 3-month delay for the ISB after the tweezer are release this is going to cost you sales.  :palm: :palm:


It's a resource issue. We have a limited amount of Engineering talent and one particular Engineer is assigned to the MiniTweez. Traditionally, we do not have the Tip-Life issues on our thermal tweezer products because they are usually not used constantly throughout the day. And since we already have a Tool Stand that fits perfectly on the new MiniTweez, an ISB version is not the highest priority. But it's on the agenda as a "must-have" product, so it will arrive at some point in time.
 
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Offline PACE-Worldwide

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Re: Newest Pace ADS200 production station (a JBC killer at $239??)
« Reply #104 on: March 23, 2018, 11:02:11 pm »
One other thing who decided to use fractions on the new AccuDrive tips and Decimal on the TD-100 tips?

Sure, makes it a pain to cross the sizes  :-- :--

Ahem. I may have had some influence on that decision ... I told you I was an old fart!  :-[

Aaron
 
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Offline PACE-Worldwide

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Re: Newest Pace ADS200 production station (a JBC killer at $239??)
« Reply #105 on: March 23, 2018, 11:29:54 pm »
One other thing who decided to use fractions on the new AccuDrive tips and Decimal on the TD-100 tips?

Sure, makes it a pain to cross the sizes  :-- :--

Ahem. I may have had some influence on that decision ... I told you I was an old fart!  :-[

Aaron

By the way, I forgot to mention that the last 4 characters of the TD-100 part number correspond to the new ADS200 "Blue Series" tip part number. So a MiniWave Tip PN 1124-0032-P1 for the TD-100 Iron are the exact same geometry as the ADS200 MiniWave Tip PN 1130-0032-P1 (the "P1" means package of 1). All the standard sized tips begin with "1130" while the Ultra-Performance versions (the tips that are thicker at the end) begin with "1131" - the 1131 Tips have the same last 4 characters as the WJS "Gold Series Tips. So the ADS200 1/4” Flat Blade (6.35mm)    P/N 1131-0037-P1 has the identical shape as the WJS 100's PN 1128-0037-P1. Yep, it's confusing ...   
« Last Edit: March 23, 2018, 11:50:22 pm by PACE-Worldwide »
 
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Offline Dyaxxis

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Re: Newest Pace ADS200 production station (a JBC killer at $239??)
« Reply #106 on: March 24, 2018, 12:51:18 am »
It's closest to the performance of a Metcal or Hakko FX951 and even beats them both in many situations. It's also close to the performance of a JBC, but JBC will beat us with some of their larger tips. The trade-off is: do you want to pay $36 a tip and $600 for soldering station, when an ADS200 will perform just as well for 98% of your applications? Well, for $11 and $12 per tip, I think PACE has a much more reasonable deal!

It's great to see an official Pace Worldwide rep actively participating here, especially with the friendly clarification of information much more than I originally expected.

I'll openly admit that one of the reasons mentioned in the quote above is why I chose a JBC CD and NASE: tips and hand pieces necessary to complete the asks I need. Most will NOT need what I have to use, but I work with items that are 0201 and smaller, having tight confines, multilayer boards having large thermal/ground planes, high component density with "hybrid technologies", and reworking/repairing within some very tight specifications necessary. Call my statement what you will, but that's just what I must work with.

Honestly, I don't regret that decision, but if I discover the options that Pace will eventually develop for the AccuDrive series will similarly fit those needs, then I'd certainly purchase an AccuDrive without hesitation. And yes... Here's a picture of the Pace stations I still have and will keep indefinitely:


« Last Edit: March 24, 2018, 12:53:02 am by Dyaxxis »
 
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Offline PACE-Worldwide

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Re: Newest Pace ADS200 production station (a JBC killer at $239??)
« Reply #107 on: March 24, 2018, 01:00:54 am »
Here's a picture of the Pace stations I still have and will keep indefinitely:

Ahhh ... a blast from the past! The venerable MBT250, the SMR 25 and the Pik & Paste (I hated that unit - so freakin' loud!). Thanks for your comments!

Aaron
 
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Offline helius

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Re: Newest Pace ADS200 production station (a JBC killer at $239??)
« Reply #108 on: March 24, 2018, 04:43:20 am »
While on the subject of the venerable PACE tools (and somewhat of a digression from the thread's topic), do you know why PACE discontinued their Pulse-Plating tools? It was over a decade ago, I think. Something about the regulatory issues surrounding toxic liquids?
 

Offline PACE-Worldwide

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Re: Newest Pace ADS200 production station (a JBC killer at $239??)
« Reply #109 on: March 24, 2018, 05:29:30 am »
While on the subject of the venerable PACE tools (and somewhat of a digression from the thread's topic), do you know why PACE discontinued their Pulse-Plating tools? It was over a decade ago, I think. Something about the regulatory issues surrounding toxic liquids?

It was 2 things. We were having a ton of problems shipping the Electroclean (for cleaning off oxides) and the essential Gold plating solutions. It was especially difficult to ship the Gold Solution which was dissolved in cyanide. It was hit or miss whether we could ship it overseas, sometimes being rejected and coming back weeks after shipment. One of our main Plating customers, the US Navy, determined the solutions were hazardous and required an expensive safety cabinet be used at all times, and key Military specifiers determined it was too much hassle to procure - they cut it from the spec. Shipping prices rose, while sales dropped to practically zero. We finally threw in the towel and discontinued the product in the mid-90's.  :'(
 
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Online mikeselectricstuff

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Re: Newest Pace ADS200 production station (a JBC killer at $239??)
« Reply #110 on: March 24, 2018, 06:56:18 am »
I agree 100%, and we'll be adding tips in the near future. By the way, you should check out our "MiniWave" style tips, which are essentially Bevel tips that have a "well" built into them - they look like a spoon but transfer heat really well.
these might also be good for drag soldering, if the edges are sharp enough
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Offline PACE-Worldwide

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Re: Newest Pace ADS200 production station (a JBC killer at $239??)
« Reply #111 on: March 24, 2018, 07:04:06 am »
I agree 100%, and we'll be adding tips in the near future. By the way, you should check out our "MiniWave" style tips, which are essentially Bevel tips that have a "well" built into them - they look like a spoon but transfer heat really well.
these might also be good for drag soldering, if the edges are sharp enough

Exactly right! These were designed for drag soldering, which we call "MiniWave" soldering, because it mimics miniature wave soldering. See our Process Guide page and click on "Play Video" for a 30 second demo at:

https://www.paceworldwide.com/pacenter/process-guides/i-qfp-02

The spoon portion of the tip holds more solder, allowing you to install more than one side at a time.
 

Offline labjr

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Re: Newest Pace ADS200 production station (a JBC killer at $239??)
« Reply #112 on: March 24, 2018, 08:55:46 am »
Since you've been around the business for a while, maybe you can recommend Pace tips which are popular for point-to-point wiring and old-fashioned chassis components, terminal strips etc.? I mostly repair and modify older audio equipment, vacuum tube electronics, some thru-hole PCBs, and a small amount of newer SMD. I'd like to use tips which will enable me to increase productivity, reduce damage to components and do neater work.

I've been using a Weller EC1002 type irons with standard ETA tips for about 25 years. Before that it was pencil irons. You know the kind where you file the tip? :D My dad actually built many ham radios and projects with those irons. I've built a Heathkit or two with them.

One problem I have is that  I have to crank up the Weller for many connections. So in the time it takes the iron to recover, the joint tends to overheat, the solder flows down before it solidifies and the joint becomes dry. Then I have to clean up drips. I'm thinking the ability to apply higher power more quickly will actually allow me to solder at lower temperatures.
 
I know it takes a knack to be good. I've seen equipment that looks like like art work which was built before modern soldering stations.

Thanks,

Larry
« Last Edit: March 24, 2018, 09:04:19 am by labjr »
 
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Offline Elasia

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Re: Newest Pace ADS200 production station (a JBC killer at $239??)
« Reply #113 on: March 24, 2018, 09:18:14 am »
Since you've been around the business for a while, maybe you can recommend Pace tips which are popular for point-to-point wiring and old-fashioned chassis components, terminal strips etc.? I mostly repair and modify older audio equipment, vacuum tube electronics, some thru-hole PCBs, and a small amount of newer SMD. I'd like to use tips which will enable me to increase productivity, reduce damage to components and do neater work.

I've been using a Weller EC1002 type irons with standard ETA tips for about 25 years. Before that it was pencil irons. You know the kind where you file the tip? :D My dad actually built many ham radios and projects with those irons. I've built a Heathkit or two with them.

One problem I have is that  I have to crank up the Weller for many connections. So in the time it takes the iron to recover, the joint tends to overheat, the solder flows down before it solidifies and the joint becomes dry. Then I have to clean up drips. I'm thinking the ability to apply higher power more quickly will actually allow me to solder at lower temperatures.
 
I know it takes a knack to be good. I've seen equipment that looks like like art work which was built before modern soldering stations.

Thanks,

Larry

Hah!  Im in your boat...  the more i keep looking at this pace the more i feel im being sucked in.  Recommended tips for power electronics with minimal oxidizing?
 

Offline Cliff Matthews

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Re: Newest Pace ADS200 production station (a JBC killer at $239??)
« Reply #114 on: March 24, 2018, 09:38:20 am »
Is it even possible for Pace tips to oxidize?  ;)  Don't they have the secret sauce?
I bought my current iron (PACE) and tips about 15 years ago and am still happy with them...
 

Offline labjr

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Re: Newest Pace ADS200 production station (a JBC killer at $239??)
« Reply #115 on: March 24, 2018, 10:11:53 am »
Is it even possible for Pace tips to oxidize?  ;)  Don't they have the secret sauce?
I bought my current iron (PACE) and tips about 15 years ago and am still happy with them...

Yeah, leaded solder. I'll use it until there's no alternative.
 

Offline Elasia

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Re: Newest Pace ADS200 production station (a JBC killer at $239??)
« Reply #116 on: March 24, 2018, 10:22:22 am »
Is it even possible for Pace tips to oxidize?  ;)  Don't they have the secret sauce?
I bought my current iron (PACE) and tips about 15 years ago and am still happy with them...

Yeah, leaded solder. I'll use it until there's no alternative.

Good for home use but I got the short end with wait for it... rhos  :--.  Meanwhile my ancient weller set is like new that i use lead on with standard cleaning techniques
 

Offline labjr

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Re: Newest Pace ADS200 production station (a JBC killer at $239??)
« Reply #117 on: March 24, 2018, 10:29:07 am »
I consider lead-free hazardous to my tools.
 

Offline Monkeh

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Re: Newest Pace ADS200 production station (a JBC killer at $239??)
« Reply #118 on: March 24, 2018, 10:39:43 am »
I agree 100%, and we'll be adding tips in the near future. By the way, you should check out our "MiniWave" style tips, which are essentially Bevel tips that have a "well" built into them - they look like a spoon but transfer heat really well.
these might also be good for drag soldering, if the edges are sharp enough

Exactly right! These were designed for drag soldering, which we call "MiniWave" soldering, because it mimics miniature wave soldering. See our Process Guide page and click on "Play Video" for a 30 second demo at:

https://www.paceworldwide.com/pacenter/process-guides/i-qfp-02

The spoon portion of the tip holds more solder, allowing you to install more than one side at a time.

PACE to everyone else translation: Hoof tip. :)
 
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Online mikeselectricstuff

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Re: Newest Pace ADS200 production station (a JBC killer at $239??)
« Reply #119 on: March 24, 2018, 10:59:51 am »
I consider lead-free hazardous to my tools.
And the flux fumes are nastier
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Offline joeqsmith

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Re: Newest Pace ADS200 production station (a JBC killer at $239??)
« Reply #120 on: March 24, 2018, 02:20:46 pm »
The only problem I have had was one time the password and other settings became corrupt.   There was no information about how to clear it on their site.  No 24 hour hot line.  So a bit of reverse engineering required to solve it.   IMO, this is a design flaw and not to have a documented way to recover it is a fail.    It has never happened since and that iron sees a lot of use.   
 
http://www.eevblog.com/forum/reviews/pace-sodrtek-st-45-factory-reset/msg812698/#msg812698

My iron is all original, including the tips.   If I buy a brand new one, is it going to be as reliable?   
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Offline hrbngr

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Re: Newest Pace ADS200 production station (a JBC killer at $239??)
« Reply #121 on: March 24, 2018, 08:24:05 pm »
Aaron,

If I purchase the ADS200 from TEquipment right now with the standard tool stand, will I be able to separately purchase the ISB Tool Stand for a reasonable price at a later time?  I was going to buy a Hakko FX951, but this new Pace unit seems like a good choice as well.

**edit** found the part# info on your ADS200 page at the bottom.
"Optional Instant SetBack (ISB) Tool Stand   Optionally available as P/N 6019-0089-P1 or standard as part of ADS200 Stations P/N 8007-0579 or P/N 8007-0581"

What would the ballpark price be on the separate stand--just need to see how much more the combined price would be?

Also, can you describe the difference between the Ultra-Performance and Standard tips? In particular in terms of longevity.
« Last Edit: March 25, 2018, 06:40:46 pm by hrbngr »
 

Offline PACE-Worldwide

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Re: Newest Pace ADS200 production station (a JBC killer at $239??)
« Reply #122 on: March 27, 2018, 06:16:09 am »
Since there have been a bunch of questions on tip life, I thought it might be a good idea to talk about the things that will help extend the life of ALL your soldering iron tips. Most of these are common-sense soldering practices, but I thought it might be useful to some of the members of this group.

Most soldering iron tips are constructed in the following manner:
  • Internal Copper Core: The core of each tip is composed of copper, an excellent heat-transfer material. Unfortunately, solder has a solvent effect on copper and will rapidly dissolve it when exposed to various solder alloys (especially lead-free solder). So it must be protected by another layer of plating.
  • Iron Plating: Iron plating is the protective layer electroplated over the surface of the tip, and the thicker the iron plating, the longer the life of the tip. But iron it is a terrible heat transfer medium, and if plated too much, the performance of the tip will be affected. Lead-free optimized tips are usually plated with 5-10 mils of iron plating, and any more iron plating will negatively affect heat transfer - tip will take forever to heat up or will not recover quick enough after soldering. All PACE tips are plated with 7-9 mils of iron.
  • Chrome plating: a layer of non-solderable chrome plating is usually to the back portion of the tip, applied to prevent the solder from creeping too far up the tip.
  • Tinning: The iron-plated working end of the tip is tinned with pure tin or solder alloy. This coating of solder protects the iron plating.

How does lead-free affect soldering? There is a higher tin content, higher melting points, tighter process window, decreased wetting, longer dwell times, duller solder joints – all these elements can affect tip life. It's been estimated that Tip life can be decreased by up to 2/3 when using lead-free!

Increased Tin Content + Higher Temperatures = Aggressive Corrosion: Lead-free solder is much more corrosive to iron-plating than standard 63/37 tin-lead alloy, especially at elevated temperatures. Higher Sn (tin) content, higher idling temperatures, greater rate of oxidation, and rapid flux degeneration all contribute to lower tip life. The most important thing to remember is the higher the tip temperature, the higher the likelihood of increased plating erosion due to iron leaching.

Oxidation is the enemy of your tip, so use low temperatures: Whether using lead-free or not, the higher the tip temperature, the more the working end of the tip will be oxidized. In practice, use the lowest possible temperature you can to do the job. 

Use optimized tip geometries: You should select the shortest and thickest tip that will allow access to the workpiece for highest heat transfer & lowest temperatures. I realize many people prefer fine-point and necked down tips as they improve access to small components and joints. However, a fine-point conical tip severely limits your heat pathway and may force you to use higher temperatures. Copper is more evenly distributed in thicker tips – thus better heat transfer. Better heat flow = lower temperature soldering. Ultra-fine conical tips have a limited heat pathway, less copper at end of tip, heavy iron at end of tip and thus less thermal transfer.

Do not apply pressure or an abrasive scrubing motion: If you are heavy handed in your soldering, you may cause stress/cracking failures in the iron plating. You should use the same pressure as you would writing with a soft #2 pencil. Also, do not scrub the lead of a component as this can lead to a scratch in the iron plating, resulting in a pit which will start the rapid dissolution of copper, eating the core away within hours, and leading to a hollow & ruined tip!

Cover the working end of the tip with solder: this helps add a protective layer of solder (which again prevents oxidation) over the sensitive iron plating.

For leaded solder, use clean, damp sulfur-free sponges: I say damp because a totally drenched sponge will drop the temperature of the tip too radically. Household sponges are also a no-no, as they contain sulfur, which will contaminate your tips! Also you might consider using distilled water as tap water contains additives & minerals that can damage a tip’s plating/reduce its life.

For Lead-Free solder, use Brass Wool: Lead-free solder uses some nastier fluxes which can be tough to remove using a standard sponge, so you may wish to use the “brass wool” cleaner (looks like a Brillo-Pad). It’s a little more abrasive, but in many cases necessary for proper cleaning of lead-free tips. If necessary, restore detinned tips with “Tip-Tinner” (that chemical you dip your tips in when all else fails) - yes, it's abrasive, but better than a detinned or dewetted tip that cannot be used..

Turn off the iron: When not in use, turn it off!

Use a soldering iron system with “Setback” or “Auto-Off” feature: As we’ve been discussing in this thread, use an iron that automatically “sets-back” the temperature to below solder melt (under 350°F/177°C). Setting the temperature below solder-melt is one of the best ways to eliminate oxidation of the tip, and thus extend tip life.

Do any of you have any other suggestions?

Aaron
 
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Offline Dyaxxis

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Re: Newest Pace ADS200 production station (a JBC killer at $239??)
« Reply #123 on: March 27, 2018, 06:30:40 am »
Do any of you have any other suggestions?

Additionally, I tend to use a "less-aggressive" tip cleaning technique when using the "brass-wool" and/or moderately moist tip cleaning sponge. I've never had the need with SAC 305 to aggressively stab the tip into brass wool or to mash the tip down on the wet sponge. I simply "sweep" the excess solder and/or contamination off of the tip, which is almost always sufficient for a clean tip to prevent major contamination.

Just my 2 cents from experience.
 
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Offline PACE-Worldwide

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Re: Newest Pace ADS200 production station (a JBC killer at $239??)
« Reply #124 on: March 27, 2018, 06:41:01 am »
Since you've been around the business for a while, maybe you can recommend Pace tips which are popular for point-to-point wiring and old-fashioned chassis components, terminal strips etc.? I mostly repair and modify older audio equipment, vacuum tube electronics, some thru-hole PCBs, and a small amount of newer SMD. I'd like to use tips which will enable me to increase productivity, reduce damage to components and do neater work.

Thanks,

Larry

Sorry for delay in answering your question, I've been away for the weekend! If sales history is any indication, some of the more popular style tips for the ADS200 are likely to be:
  • 13/64” Extra Large Chisel (5.15mm) P/N 1130-0010-P1
  • 1/32” 30° Chisel (0.80mm) P/N 1130-0012-P1
  • 3/32” 30° Chisel (2.38mm) P/N 1130-0013-P1
  • 1/16” 30° Chisel (1.59mm) P/N 1130-0019-P1
The above tip styles are pretty popular so you might want to try them out.

Aaron
 


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