Open Placer A New Affordable PCB Assembly Machine

[ucdiode86]

Hello RickJames,

I backed a standard version and I received the also the parcel.

All seem to be there but, like you, I don't have the assembly manual.

I contacted Furkan of the OpenPlacer team the 7 August about the documentation, and he said that he need one week to finish.

Unfortunately, today, the web page of assembly manual ( http://www.openplacer.com/?page_id=353) has not updated.

I contacted Furkan some days ago but he seem to be offline (no answer).

At your side, do you have news about the assembly manual ?

Best regards.

Seb.

[Gregdavill]

I backed the mini version.

Just got mine yesterday in Aus. I was notified that mine was sent via a different company. (The courier they typically use wouldn't ship to Australia...?)
Some slight shipping damage (drag chain end has broken, easy for me to fix myself).

Let me preface by saying that I set expectations low when buying things off crowdfunding sites. i.e. I'm okay if they never ship the product. So this product has already exceeded my expectations.

But there are multiple small things wrong with my machine.

• Almost every screw is loose. (The panels that make up the case rattle when you tap them)
• The belts were very loose
• Pulley's for Y axis were not secured to motor's driven rod
• Y axis motor was loose
• Z axis clearly interfering with 3d cover
• Z axis motor wired in reverse*
• I think I was sent a full sized parts tray, not one for the mini.
• E axis (or C axis) does not seem to rotate the nozzle
• Down-looking camera LED ring is too bright, no software brightness control

I worked through these in a few hours, I've had experience building 3d printers from scratch. But it almost feels my unit missed a final QC step? Given that the belts were loose and the pulley's not secured I doubt any QC involving running the machine was performed.

I do understand that hardware is hard. But I feel like the creators were out of their depth, and didn't plan out assembly and testing procedures.

I notice they do in fact have manuals on the website now.
*the user manual describes using DIP switches on the control board to "set" axis rotation direction?? Why was that not done before shipping?

I have managed to get the machine mechanically working (with 3d printing GUI pronterface).
The control PCB had flux from hand rework, which is fine.... except the chip they reworked had 2 pins with no solder. (Which was why the vac solenoid wasn't working).

Side note: The machine design choices are very weird to me.

• Every stepper motor on the machine is different.
• Mixture of CNC'd aluminium parts, waterjet steel, sheetmetal (bent/angled), turned Delrin, and 3d printed plastic.
• Electronics uses 3 different types of plug in stepper controllers (as used on 3d printers)

I understand that electronics and mechanical assembly is hard, I personally think they didn't charge enough during the campaign. So I'm very happy that they managed to ship products out to all their backers. I hope they can improve their process and QC moving forward. Good to hear that I might be an outlier with these issues.

[rx8pilot]

I understand that electronics and mechanical assembly is hard, I personally think they didn't charge enough during the campaign. So I'm very happy that they managed to ship products out to all their backers. I hope they can improve their process and QC moving forward. Good to hear that I might be an outlier with these issues.

In my experience......assembly is the easy part. ORGANIZING is the hard part. 

Switching gears from design/engineering/testing/etc/etc......to being bombarded with a myriad of process control and QC can be a real shocker. A few loose screws seems like you are in pretty good shape. Really good to see deliveries for sure.

Looking forward to see what kind of work people will be able to accomplish with these systems.

[SSLee]

E axis (or C axis) does not seem to rotate the nozzle

Have you figured this out? Mine (a standard version) has the same issue.

The manuals on their website are pretty much useless. Have to tune everything myself.

[CM800]

So far I've been trying to get my OP to work, without success. Here's my journey:

1. I powered up the machine, its USB cameras work, I can see the UART, and I can download the test firmware.
2. Repetier can't connect to the board and send any Gcode.
3. The fans are VERY noisy and annoying. Upon inspection, they are the cheapest fans one can imagine.
4. Screws rattle in the chassis. I'm glad it didn't blow up the SMPS. Safety hazard!
5. The SMPS was very improperly connected to the mains input module. Blade connectors are loose. Safety hazard!
6. Many exposed metal are rusted, they are not protected with zinc or other plating/coating.
7. The red motor board looks to be recycled. There are still glue residue.
8. The nozzle changer won't fit. The screw holes was not properly tapped, and the plastic spacers are way to big.
9. LV cables are running everywhere in the chassis, including next to SMPS input. Safety hazard!
10. Deformation of many steel panels.
11. Manual says 2 vacuum pumps. I only see one from tear down.
12. Platform is not flat. I have to force the tray to sit flat on the platform.

Please, this is a $800 machine. Please use $3 fans and $5 motor boards instead of $1 "AliExpress special this week".
And why TF there are 3 types of motor boards out of totally 4 motor boards? Why TF every stepper is different?

This is why I've decided never to buy a machine again.

If it is suitable for it's job, it's too expensive.

If it is at an affordable price point, it's not suitable for it's job.

[Furkan]

Dear all

Sorry for replying this late. For the moment we managed to send 20 orders to our funders. We were quite busy updating the websites, instructions and infrastructure for the continuity of Openplacer.

The e-commerce website www.openplacerstore.com is active but there are some bugs that we need to fix.

The website needs about a week or a little more to solve the bugs. For the moment the 3D secure (a security code will be sent to your cell phone) credit card payment and wire transfer options are ready. However most of the bugs are related with the language (There several Turkish words in the website). Paypal payment option seems to be active in a week. Unfortunately, Paypal is not authorised in Turkey so we accept payments via our US distributor ASCO LLC. It is a little old fashioned way but we ask you to send the total amount to that Paypal account so that we will ship your products.

We had so many feedbacks from the 20 Indiegogo orders. We will definetely improve our packaging. We haven't finalized it yet but it will be guaranteed packaging from a 3rd party company.

The user manual and instructions are improving day by day. It is available at openplacer.com but it will shortly be available also at openplacerstore.com

We will improve us from the feedbacks. I hope all our backers enjoy the product.

Furkan

I will update you with details.



We re

[rx8pilot]

Please, this is a $800 machine. Please use $3 fans and $5 motor boards instead of $1 "AliExpress special this week".

A handbuilt, specialty machine with a lot of parts built in micro quantity? $800 is a spec of money. Subtract some profit (even a small profit), labor for the entire operation, labor directly related to your machine....the max BOM cost is maybe $400 or so and probably less. That is a stunningly low cost. The only expectation should be the Alibaba specials in terms of hardware. If this were a 3D printer that was likely to sell 10's of thousands of units, you could expect slightly better - but it is not.

Low-end, entry-level P&P from Neoden is 10x the price.

[mrpackethead]

Please, this is a $800 machine. Please use $3 fans and $5 motor boards instead of $1 "AliExpress special this week".

A handbuilt, specialty machine with a lot of parts built in micro quantity? $800 is a spec of money. Subtract some profit (even a small profit), labor for the entire operation, labor directly related to your machine....the max BOM cost is maybe $400 or so and probably less. That is a stunningly low cost. The only expectation should be the Alibaba specials in terms of hardware. If this were a 3D printer that was likely to sell 10's of thousands of units, you could expect slightly better - but it is not.

Low-end, entry-level P&P from Neoden is 10x the price.

Ahh, But the dream of hassle free, fast, precise and super low cost PNP is still alive!

Wake me up when it happens.  I'm still having PNP reality nightmares.

[kerim_kaleli]

Dear All,
I'm Kerim, the founder of OpenPlacer.

Thank you all for your valuable comments.
 
From the very beginning of design process, our aim is to design a potentially commercial pick and place machine, which would be opensource and could be built easily by anyone. Following two years of an intense research and development stage, we initiated to use our prototype, built in our own workshop. Afterwards, Indiegogo campaign was launched, thanks a lot to all our backers.
We are aware of the fact that OpenPlacer is not perfect yet. Thus, we work hard  to improve our product, enhancing the design of each part.

Our main purpose has always been to allow all electronics people, professional or amateur, have their own pick and place machine. Our intention is not to built a perfect machine capable of placing every component, but to built an affordable machine, even for students, capable of placing most frequently used components.

Taking into consideration of all your valuable critics and comments, we will continue our studies on both hardware and software, improving our product.
Thanks a lot.
Kerim KALELI

[ucdiode86]

Hello all,

I am a one of backers of this campaign. I search another backers to share tips and solve of different problems of my machine.

Currently, I have problems and Furkan who are the only person who answer (the only one authorized because he represent a Turkey company), take times to answer and these answers are poor help because he is not a technical person.

I am currently disappointed with this machine (impossible to use it since I received it (beginning of august). So 3 months without the possibility to use it.

If you are one backer of this campaign, can you help me ? Is your OpenPlacer machinery work correctly ?

Best regards.

[Koen]

Hello ucdiode86. Ask your questions here directly. Also, where do you live in France ?

[ucdiode86]

Hello Koen,

Do you have the OpenPlacer Machine ?

I would like to share tips / problems with owners of this machine.

For example, the accuracy of a axis not good. If head jog of 10 mm, the result is 9.9mm...

About where I live :

"Vous êtes français ?".

Best regards.

[aurelien]

Hello,
Is openplacer still alive ?
Can someone report successfully placing components (which size ?) with it. I am brand new to pick and place stuff, and quite new in the electronic field. I just need something that works, with minimal headaches. I would prefer to invest 6000$ in something reliable rather than wasting 2000$ in something I can't use. However as a software developper openpnp support is a big bonus for me. What do you think ?

[ucdiode86]

Hello,
Is openplacer still alive ?
Can someone report successfully placing components (which size ?) with it. I am brand new to pick and place stuff, and quite new in the electronic field. I just need something that works, with minimal headaches. I would prefer to invest 6000$ in something reliable rather than wasting 2000$ in something I can't use. However as a software developper openpnp support is a big bonus for me. What do you think ?

Hello Aurelien,

For me, not really. I bought this machine to place 0603 components and also microcontrollers. I have changed the 2 cameras (originally very little definition with bad focal), I also added resistors to leds. I corrected the firmware to correct the A axis.

Now, it works almost but I have not completed all tests / corrections (after 9 months !)

And the email support is bad (long delay to have a little answer).

As you can understand, I don't recommend this machine.

If you can pay 6000$, contact directly a Pnp manufacturer.

You can contact to me if you need additional information (et en français).

Best regards.

[L1L1]

I don't think the company exists anymore. Or at least they don't respond to any emails. The unit I bought has a missaligned camera but I was not able to get any info on how to fix it. Documentation is a mess, all over the place...

[ucdiode86]

I can help you.

I currently finish to repair the unit.

For the camera, I changed them. The quality of the original were very bad.

Can you describe the currently problem you have ?

Best regards.

Sebastien.

[Furkan]

Dear all

I see that some people had problems reaching us about their problems with Open Placer. That might be because the e-mail account "furkan@openplacer.com" is not active anymore. We tried to announce it to everyone who purchased Open Placer with e-mail. Maybe some of you couldn't receive it (It might go to the Spam folder).

info@openplacerstore.com is the e-mail address that we follow

We try to answer all questions related with Open Placer and how to use it with OpenPNP with basic functions. Some people were not familiar with OpenPNP at all so it took some time to get use to the machine.

We add the "Tawk" chat infrastructure to the openplacerstore.com website to answer all questions live. 3 people are trying to answer the questions through tawk. Since we installed the chat software, I guess we didn't miss a single request. (about 20 requests since March 7th). I can not guarantee that we will not miss it but we try to do our best to answer them.

There is a serious complain about the quality of the cameras. We are looking for a better one to replace the ones that we send with the device. Btw, we designed the machine to place min 603 components and it is working perfect with those cameras in our facility.

We tried to update the documents and now they are better than 6 months ago. However, we see that short videos are required to explain all small adjustments.

There are so many happy users of Open Placer, but unfortunately the ones who had problem with it are writing.

And one short notice for Sebastien, we answered I guess more than 20 e-mails only from you, most of them were related with the OpenPNP software, we sent spare part free of charge. I guess we do not deserve to be called "Not Responding" , at least from you.

I beleive the short videos for adjustments will bring an end to these complaints. Please use "info@openplacerstore.com" to contact us in details or "Tawk" from the "www.openplacerstore.com" website to get quick answers.

Regards
Furkan
The Open Placer Team

 

[ucdiode86]

Hello Furkan,

Happy to see that you are alive

I see that some people had problems reaching us about their problems with Open Placer. That might be because the e-mail account "furkan@openplacer.com" is not active anymore. We tried to announce it to everyone who purchased Open Placer with e-mail. Maybe some of you couldn't receive it (It might go to the Spam folder).

As e-mail administrator of our server, I haven't a trace of your e-mail. Maybe you can tell to us when you sent it ?

A simple message at the top of the "openplacer.com" website could have helped the backers to contact you.

We try to answer all questions related with Open Placer and how to use it with OpenPNP with basic functions. Some people were not familiar with OpenPNP at all so it took some time to get use to the machine.

Except that the machine have lot of flaws :

- The A axis didn't operate correctly by the machine. I had to modify the firmware to correct that.
- The motor wires of A Axis was inverted.
- The two cameras had bad quality, have bad focal to use them and not correctly positioned ( not parallel ). I had to change them.
- Some screw were not tight.
- The motor color of A axis is not compatible with the OpenPnp software to detect the position of the components. I had to add color circle to help the recognition.
- The brightness of the leds was too much high. I had to add resistor to reduce the brightness.
- Head elevation problem.

So it is very difficult for a backer to guess the source of the problem : the machine or the OpenPnp software ?

We add the "Tawk" chat infrastructure to the openplacerstore.com website to answer all questions live. 3 people are trying to answer the questions through tawk. Since we installed the chat software, I guess we didn't miss a single request. (about 20 requests since March 7th). I can not guarantee that we will not miss it but we try to do our best to answer them.

Simple : Just answer quickly to the emails

If some questions are ask often, create a knowledge database and show it to your website.

There is a serious complain about the quality of the cameras. We are looking for a better one to replace the ones that we send with the device. Btw, we designed the machine to place min 603 components and it is working perfect with those cameras in our facility.

...

There are so many happy users of Open Placer, but unfortunately the ones who had problem with it are writing.

Unfortunately, I didn't found user on this forum which successful with the machine.

And one short notice for Sebastien, we answered I guess more than 20 e-mails only from you, most of them were related with the OpenPNP software, we sent spare part free of charge.

I recorded only your answers ( since the 08/31/2018 ) :

First and second e-mail : Problem with a volatile white circle (not attached) => OpenPlacer machine.
Third and fourth e-mail : Manual instruction needed => OpenPlacer machine.
Fifth, sixth, seventh, eighth, ninth, tenth e-mail : head elevation part (broken) for the nozzle changer => OpenPlacer machine.
eleventh, twelfth e-mail : current of each axis => OpenPlacer machine.
thirteenth, fourteenth email : blurry image and brightness of the led => OpenPlacer machine.
fifteenth and seventeenth email : accuracy lost on Y axis => OpenPlacer machine.
sixteenth email : focus on the image => OpenPlacer machine.
eighteenth email : blurry picture => OpenPlacer machine.

nineteen email : pc performeance => OpenPnp software.
twentieth, twenty one, twenty two email : replacement of the camera => OpenPlacer machine.
twenty three,  twenty four, twenty five email : OpenPnp software can't detect the resistor => OpenPnp software.

4 emails on 25 emails was about OpenPnp software. 16 % of the all ...

I guess we do not deserve to be called "Not Responding" , at least from you.

I said : "And the email support is bad (long delay to have a little answer)."

I beleive the short videos for adjustments will bring an end to these complaints. Please use "info@openplacerstore.com" to contact us in details or "Tawk" from the "www.openplacerstore.com" website to get quick answers.

It will help all users that currently stuck with this machine.

Sebastien.

[Kjelt]

You can't expect a big company tech service for a hundred$ machine.
If you build your own machine you know how to fix it.
Belts will get a bit sloppy so you have to tension them etc. etc.

[Furkan]

Dear Sebastien

First of all, its nice to hear that you are running Open Placer as it should be.

About your e-mails we are looking at the same point from different views. Blurry image, brightness, focus and similar camera issues are all software issues for us. We are using the same camera, same led strip and same hardware and obtain perfect PnP with 603 components and with loose part picking option. We beleive that if the image processing parameters (pipeline) are adjusted correctly mentioned components can be detected with those cameras properly.

I was told that the e-mail was sent, but we might be mistaken. I need to double check it and we need to resend it.

Unfortunately, happy users do not share their opinions in forums almost in all topics.

Regards
Furkan

[ucdiode86]

First of all, its nice to hear that you are running Open Placer as it should be.

Almost yes, after 9 months, and after had changed some parts and done corrections hardware and firmware.

About your e-mails we are looking at the same point from different views. Blurry image, brightness, focus and similar camera issues are all software issues for us. We are using the same camera, same led strip and same hardware and obtain perfect PnP with 603 components and with loose part picking option. We beleive that if the image processing parameters (pipeline) are adjusted correctly mentioned components can be detected with those cameras properly.

I let the other OpenPlacer users to say their point of views of the machine.

For me a blurry image is a blurry image, not software issue.
Also a focus issue is not a software issue.
About the brightness, without resistor, the brightness is so high that the camera is dazzled.

I was told that the e-mail was sent, but we might be mistaken. I need to double check it and we need to resend it.

Oddly, you're not sure ...

Unfortunately, happy users do not share their opinions in forums almost in all topics.

... unfortunately ...

[SSLee]

I let the other OpenPlacer users to say their point of views of the machine.

For me a blurry image is a blurry image, not software issue.
Also a focus issue is not a software issue.
About the brightness, without resistor, the brightness is so high that the camera is dazzled.

Very similar story on my machine.
The header camera was not aligned. I had to open the fragile header shell (3D printed) to adjust it. And turned out the metal part that fixes the camera was not properly shaped.
The nozzle doesn't rotate.
LED brightness issue renders the vision recognition useless (or due to the low quality cameras).
All feeders are 3D printed in a low precision setting. Some slots are even bent. I'm fine with 3D printing, but at least use a higher precision.
OpenPNP configs were not provided initially. I had to hack into the firmware to figure out some G-code.

For a 1k machine, my expectation was low, but with a reasonable amount of tunes, at least it should run as the advertisement video shows. However, after 2 months (my spare time) of tuning , there were still serious issues. So I simply gave up -- my time is worth more than that. I didn't bother to contact the OpenPlacer team or complain here because based on my and other people's interaction with them, I knew that that would be a further waste of my time.

Unfortunately, happy users do not share their opinions in forums almost in all topics.

... unfortunately ...

Perhaps other users who keep silent are happy with their machines. Unfortunately, I'm not one of them.

[mrpackethead]

If its too good to be true, it probably is.  I got burned on another PNP project.    I am struggling to remember what it is called.  I want to think it was fire something.  It was a delta robot.        And it goes on. We see more people attempting to build precision engineering for $100.  Theres other people building very 'average' stuff and charging a few thousand bucks, others rebadging chinese machines and trying to dress them up to make them 'european'.    I've seen this time after time.    What happens, is people get fustrated with them, and just give up, or they spend hundreds of hours trying to fix it,  or they go back to what they were doing, or a few go and buy professional ones.

The dream of $5 PNP is still alive and well though. :-)

[Kjelt]

As said before by numerous people, the challenge of a P&P machine are the feeders and the components <0402, the rest is mainstream and can be nicely build and sold for a few thousand $.
Everything below that price has shortcuts that needs manual care, time and replacement over time.

[mrpackethead]

As said before by numerous people, the challenge of a P&P machine are the feeders and the components <0402, the rest is mainstream and can be nicely build and sold for a few thousand $.
Everything below that price has shortcuts that needs manual care, time and replacement over time.

A few thousand.  I would say that number is more like 25,000.   Please give examples of reliable machines that are 2,000?