Pick and Place Machine TVM802A / TVM802B

[glenenglish]

howdy

so you say Win10 is concatenating short packets ? that's not actually bug, really.

is the TVM802 TCP/IP or UDP ?

I gather TCP, because is it usual to concatenate packets. sounds like the controller TCP implementation in the controller PCB is a bit lacking.

You can also the mode of the TCP interface with IOCTL /  SOCKET OPTION commands to prevent Nagle algorithm etc .
or in the registry....

take a look at this advice- it deals with disabling Nagle and a few other network gems

https://www.reddit.com/r/killerinstinct/comments/4fcdhy/an_excellent_guide_to_optimizing_your_windows_10/

http://www.speedguide.net/articles/windows-8-10-2012-server-tcpip-tweaks-5077



glen

[steffenmauch]

Before Christmas, we got our TVM802B too but until yesterday we had no time to try 
Placing 0603 works quite well but with 0402 we have some real problems.

Maybe someone can tell me if the described behavior is the same for him.
We changed the Feed to 2 instead of 4 as there are two parts between the 4mm.
Every second part, the brick hit the hole of the smd tape.
If I change the Feed to 4 for 0402, every second component is skipped in the SMD tape.
So it looks as if something is wrong. The delivered software has version 2.30!

Has anyone else experienced such a behavior?
What type of nozzle have been successfully used for 0402? Type 502 or Type 503?
With Type 502, I have seen quite often that the component is picked but vertically but I think this is only due to not proper alignment.

Anyway, until the feedrate for 0402 is as it is for us right now, 0402 is not really useable as 50% waste of parts are not ok.

Thanks!

[huebsch]

Hello!
Regarding the feeder: I was forced for some 1208 tapes to adjust the position of the brick for that single position. It is done in "system config". I guess that might help you as well.
-AH-

[steffenmauch]

@huebsch
Well do you mean PrickCorrect in the LeftStack tab or 'Left Prick Offset' in the Other tab?
I tried the PrickCorrect (first column x-axis) from -0.01 to -2 and +2 in 0.05 steps. Larger than 2 does not work.
But anyway we have not seen any change in the position. Changing the second column (y-axis), we saw an effect.

As we only have the 1.30 software, we do not know if there is a bug in the implementation.
1208 has also only one component between two holes in the tape, right?

[huebsch]

@steffenmauch Yes that's what I was recommending. The 1208 strips have only one component per hole. my corrections where only on Y axis necessary.
-AH-

[ar__systems]

howdy

so you say Win10 is concatenating short packets ? that's not actually bug, really.

is the TVM802 TCP/IP or UDP ?

I gather TCP, because is it usual to concatenate packets. sounds like the controller TCP implementation in the controller PCB is a bit lacking.

TCP. I did not say it was a bug, I said machine can't handle it

[Sugrob]

@steffenmauch, do you already run you machine?
A also has 2.30verion software. Is it work fine for you or you also have troubles with it?

[steffenmauch]

@Sugrob: well, placing 0603 works, but I need to adjust the pick up position to be more precise.
Nevertheless, 0402 does only work when the Feed is set to 4 instead of 2. As with this setting,
every second component is not used.
I don't know whether this is a bug of 2.30 as I do not have another version.
Tried to contact a lot of different persons, but still no real response.

Hope to get in contact with qiHe tomorrow when the holidays in china are ending ...

[ar__systems]

@steffenmauch, do you already run you machine?
A also has 2.30verion software. Is it work fine for you or you also have troubles with it?

Try connecting the machine to the PC directly, i.e. not through a switch or a hub.

[Sugrob]

Try connecting the machine to the PC directly, i.e. not through a switch or a hub.

it's connected directly. I never use hub.

On several sites I found information about laptop is not so good work with CNC controller, but can't find a reason.
All of 3 PC which I test with my machine was a laptops. How do you think, is it may be a reason of frequently collisions?

[ar__systems]

Not sure how laptop or not can be a factor. We used an older XP laptop
.

[harry4516]

Try connecting the machine to the PC directly, i.e. not through a switch or a hub.

it's connected directly. I never use hub.

On several sites I found information about laptop is not so good work with CNC controller, but can't find a reason.
All of 3 PC which I test with my machine was a laptops. How do you think, is it may be a reason of frequently collisions?

There is only one thing I can recommend,
look for an old PC, maybe a dual-code, with Windows 7.
Install Win7 and updates, then disable all further updates, disable indexing (!).

The problem is the firmware in the machine. But you can help with such a PC to get it working.
At least , these are my experiences.

[ar__systems]

@Sugrob: well, placing 0603 works, but I need to adjust the pick up position to be more precise.
Nevertheless, 0402 does only work when the Feed is set to 4 instead of 2. As with this setting,
every second component is not used.
I don't know whether this is a bug of 2.30 as I do not have another version.
Tried to contact a lot of different persons, but still no real response.

Hope to get in contact with qiHe tomorrow when the holidays in china are ending ...

I would not expect 0402 placement work reliably on this machine. The feeders just don't provide enough accuracy. I fought with it for a year and I gave up.

Drag feeders are not hopeless, imho they can be made to work reliably. But they must be closed loop to verify position of the tape after the movement. Either by means of down camera, or by some other mechanism. Without that they have too much play for 0402.

[steffenmauch]

Ok short update regarding software version 2.30.
We received version 2.32 and with this 0402 does work with the right feed rate.
Looks as if they have broken that in 2.30; but they have not confirmed it  just gave me the new version and said try this one.

We adjusted the camera offset in the settings and now placing 0402 capacitor works quite well.
0402 resistors are sometimes rotated by 90° and they fail much often during pickup.

[huebsch]

Folks!
I just found a release document on the WEB which I machine translated to english. That document just goes up to rev. 2.31 2.32 is not included...

2016/12/8 V2.31
1, increased PCB software "Easy-PC" files into formats compatible with 11.10
2, mount complete the prompt box the next time you start automatically remove 11.11
3, manual, does not run when the nozzle down 11.11
4, increasing Visual precision adjustable bias (element coordinate deviations, element angle deviation) 11.28
5, modify 0402 needles suction bug 12.7

2016/11/5 V2.30
1, change the maximum acceleration
2, the keys function increase file editing (ESC, space, Delete)
3, delete the symbol prompt information "confirmed"
4, increasing the light switch


2016/10/8 V2.29
1, modify the file "posted" order bug
After stopping the machine needle 2, modified firing pin bug
3, scale accuracy of 0.0001
4, stack after stack, 6, 7th against (Beta2)
5, 802A disk cannot be located, set before the current bug (Beta3)

2016/10/5 V2.28
1, revised separate pin offset is not in place of the fabric stack Bug
2, open to give up other location data in the system setup parameters
3, increase the length of 16mm feed


2016/09/02 V2.27
1, modify components parameters table "description" column, do not select the same data change bug
2, depending on the camera on "Visual components" adding "Red Cross"


2016/08/20 V2.26
1. the software implemented two versions a, b, b, 802A, two versions
2. differences:
A software (1) system setup small stacks in the back behind the bar, and other parameters in the PIN offset parameter
(2) in the element information table in "stacks" column in less material behind stack options
(3) when the CSV file is loaded, a loaded b-file will report an error


2016/08/05 V2.26
1. increase the percentage of EFAC coefficient, fix x, y coordinates

2016/07/19 V2.25
1. amendments to the results did not automatically detect save bug

2016/07/09 V2.24
1. fixed limit trigger the buzzer doesn't alarm
2. the factory parameters depending on the test button to add the light source open
3. close the page when testing the nozzle automatically stopped

2016/06/27 V2.23
1. fixed stack-pin on the left offset parameter error

2016/06/07 V2.22
1. increase depending on camera "photo delay" or "camera exposure" parameter

2016/05/27 V2.21
1.IC stack sorting optimization

2016/05/04 V2.20
1.IC stack sets the current serial number can be read
2. swing PIN card
3. Add a separate needle for each stack offset
4.PCB configuration, automatically switches to manual mode and depending on the camera mode
5. change camera acquisition algorithms.
6. depending on the camera light on only when the test opens.

2016/03/21 V2.12
1. fixed two nozzles while feeding, the second device in the stack in the back angle errors

2016/02/21 V2.11
1. front material stack up to 30
2.ACC12:X10 Y7 Z15
ACC11:X7 Y6 Z12

2015/11/16 V2.10
1. the maximum acceleration
2. tray can use two suction nozzle and mounting

2015/11/12 V2.09
1. When you don't have to check the material, not in place waiting for inspection

2015/09/28 V2.08
1. fixed after the capture device, when moving to the posted position, determine the pressure, and z-axis down

2015/08/31 V2.07
1. fixed 2nd after Visual suction head, process errors of judgment

2015/08/24 V2.06
1. modify the English translation

2015/08/21 V2.05
1. fixed coordinate the IC Tray problem

2015/08/19 V2.03
1.24mm the strip width

2015/07/25 V2.02
1. fixed IC tray when Y=1, coordinates of confusion
2. fixed coordinate system parameters page camera location
3. modify LED errors

2015/05/28 V2.0
1. fixed needle drop BUG after a pause. The new version firmware.

2015/05/10 V1.25
1.IC Tray under plate increments

2015/04/29 V1.24
1. fixed IC Tray 1 sequence problem

2015/04/10 V1.23
1. fix rear stack 11~30 stack 1/2 suction nozzle only when a material problem

2015/04/07 V1.22
1. fixed load CSV file when the file because the device is empty alarm

2015/03/20 V1.21
1. increased needle fabric stack offset

2015/03/06 V1.20
1. fixed after the 2nd nozzle dump, repeat posted 1th bug
2.12MM set distance

2015/03/04 V1.19
1. fixed when the file is read, not read into the PCB configuration BUG

2015/02/27 V1.18
1. the parameters go to the coordinates from the manufacturer depending on the camera system parameters

2015/02/24 V1.17
1. can support Protues coordinates the export file

2015/02/12 V1.16
1. fixed camera manufacturers parameter coordinate automatic test BUG
2. fixed stack separate sort BUG
3. fixed read Candes coordinate export file error
4. increase can read the decimal point as a comma-file

2015/01/10 V1.15
1. fixed IC Tray data bug

2014/12/26 V1.14
1. increase the generated array functions
The position of the 2.PCB configuration increases the z-axis origin location
3. fixed the right-click menu sets the current camera position bug

2014/12/04 V1.13
1. modify the English version of the stack display error bug

2014/12/04 V1.12
1. revision of German regional data decimal points are replaced by comma bug

2014/12/02 V1.11
1. modify 0402 stack feed 2mm, needle drop coordinates error bug

2014/11/29 V1.10
1. support 802B double stack SMT machine
2. improved pre-stack functions

2014/10/30 V1.08
1. improved feature by camera device coordinates (consider MARK point transform)
2. Add a right-click menu and set the coordinates must be in a State of origin has been found
3. added support for Allegro export file

2014/10/27 V1.07
1. modify the parameter settings page, position run without prompting z is not zero-bug
2. change when the file is loaded, bottom mirrored error bug
3. remove manual run time, request the z axis at zero

2014/10/24 V1.06
1. modify the selected row appears error bug

2014/10/24 V1.05
1. revision of PCB configuration-5th Board Gets the camera position bug
2. change SN number display bug
3. modify the 1th nozzle nozzle feeding, feed 2mm,2 4mm, 2 a good nozzle suction error bug
4. Add the home button icon
5. increase the version number display

[steffenmauch]

Well somehow the information below is not surprising but anyway:

- do not used red solder mask when trying to use fiducials with the TVM802b
- also do not used white solder mask

Due to the red leds being used for fiducials recognition (and maybe some color filter digitally or optically), you will not see them on the image in the software. 
On option is to use a black permanent pen and mark the circles of the fiducials.
Then, the circles are visible again.

One good tweak would be to use RGB leds and change the color depending on the solder mask. Shouldn't be too hard but the firmware of the internal controller must be modified.
Does anyone have a good image of the controller board of the TVM802a/b?

[harry4516]

I never put soldermask over the fiducials, so no problem with color.

[steffenmauch]

The fiducial has no solder mask on top; but it has HAL lead free finish.

[steffenmauch]

We did some more pick and place jobs. Placing 0402 capacitors works ok, but 0402 resistors are pure pain.
Any suggestions except replacing the vacuum pump? Tried 502 and 503 type of juki nozzles ...

[dermeister]

I just received v2.32 of the SurfaceMount software from the Aliexpress seller I bought my TVM802B from. He sent it to me over Skype, saying that he can't send it over email, which I found odd since the size of the archive is only 1.9MB. As soon as I tried to extract the archive, Windows Defender quarantined the executable (SurfaceMount.exe) since it detected Trojan:Win32/Fuery.B!cl in it. Submitting the file to virustotal.com also comes up with multiple hits for a trojan. Did anyone else find that this file was infected? It may be a false positive, but that seems unlikely for this type of a program. I'm guessing that his email service may also have rejected the file because it detected malware, although it may just reject the sending of executables.

[steffenmauch]

I can confirm that our anti-virus program also detected that trojan. But interestingly only after a few days.
Thus, the anti-virus program did a self-update and than transferred the executable into quarantine.
I hope that it is a false-positive ... but you can't be sure. It is also V2.32 as 2.30 has that nasty 0402 bug.

[richardlawson1489]

Yeah, I think its bug. I hope they will fix it soon.

[prpplague]

yes, I found a solution, but you will not like it:
I set the cam to quick mode and reduce the speed to 20% (for SOT23 only)
This is very slow but works for me.

The problem with SOT23 are vibrations. Nozzle suction is too weak for the vibrations, so the SOT23 are dancing and flipping.

After replacing the built in vac pump with an external one, its much (!) better. Now I can run SOT23 with 100% speed
using 504 nozzles.

got any info on what vac pump you replaced it with?

thanks
Dave

[xboxhacker]

My solution for plastic tape troubles.....

First off, new here and just received my machine the other day  802A. So far so good. Not too many major troubles. Up and running in less than a day.

But when it came time to feed a 12mm plastic tape, the feed pin would deflect the tape and I would get no feeding at all!

So I 3D printed a small piece of plastic, that would support the tape, so that the feed pin would not deflect it. Added some 3m tape to keep it in place.

Works like a champ!!!!

With this, I should be able to change the parameters of the 3D file, to support other plastic tapes width and height.

[harry4516]

...
got any info on what vac pump you replaced it with?

thanks
Dave

I am using an oil running VAC pump which give a very deep vacuum.
A good oil filter is mandatory at the air outlet.
I connected the VAC pump to a small 1 litres air tank, and then with 10mm tubes directly to the tubes in the TVM802.

The result is good. No more problems with moving and jumping parts on the nozzle. Running all jobs with 100% speed.

One disadvantage with the ext. VAC pump: the pressure sensor does not more work with 503 nozzles (but works with other nozzles).
So missing parts (0603) are not detected and sometimes the nozzle dunks into the solder paste. If that happens, the nozzle must be
cleaned very carefully since any rest of solderpaste reduces suction significantly.