Pick & Place MachineTVM920

[dtf]

looks like vacuum drops linearly (L type) but it's not like I've ever had part holding problems

[dtf]

according to ancient documents, yamaha YV100 and therefore CL feeders require 0.55MPa or 80 psi, so I'll try that

[dtf]

looks like there's no per-feeder setting for pick height - they are all set to the same height... "component height" is for placement only

[ar__systems]

Aren't all of the feeders on the same level?

[dtf]

even the same feeder in the same place will have a different pick height if you're using a part on paper or plastic tape etc.

also there's no independent nozzle z-calibration....

[dtf]

No problems turning down the pressure to 80psi. The feeders sound much smoother. The compressor also switches on way less often. Some parts are still bouncing around on tape however. I'll try a bit lower.

Some of the pick problems are z-height now too, one nozzle is just at the perfect height to pick, but another is too low and presses the tape down.

[ar__systems]

I ordered the machine with a bunch of feeders, but AFTER I paid money they told me they don't have all of these in stock. I only got 8 of 8mm's, and a bunch of larger ones. Promised to ship the balance right after NY. And now they guy I was talking to (KIM) has gone silent...

[ar__systems]

even the same feeder in the same place will have a different pick height if you're using a part on paper or plastic tape etc.

also there's no independent nozzle z-calibration....

Damn it, you are right. One of the caps from paper tape does not pick up normally if I press the nozzle too low, but if I adjust pick up height to work for the cap, then another nozzle stays at least 1.5mm above the part on plastic tape. Did you think of the way to work it around?

[ar__systems]

Question: is it possible that steps/mm ratio could be different in front and in the back?

I set up camera to nozzle offsets so that they perfectly land nozzles on the parts in front feeders. Now if I go to a back feeder, the nozzle ends up being off by about 0.7-0.9 in Y direction. I stopped the machine when it dropped the needle, noted X Y coords, then clicked "aimed" for that feeder and confirmed that offset matches the vision offset in the config. The nozzle drops to the back feeder at the same angle as for the front ones.

 I had to compensate pick location for that feeder so it looks off with down-camera. How could this be possible?

[dtf]

received new controller board and V1.27 Beta 1 software. PCBs are identical so likely just a firmware change on the STM32. The settings seem the same except for X/Y scaling which now has 4 digits after the decimal point instead of 3. Homing sounds different, and seems to take longer. Feeders are all offset by a few mm and will all need to be re-aligned. Notably the "component rotation by feeder" setting that they promised to add is not present.

Also received two upgraded cams for the Z axis. These ones are adjustable so nozzles 1+2 and 3+4 can be aligned to each other (the cam plate can be rotated a few degrees on the shaft). Unfortunately I don't think it will cure my Z axis issues as even after careful adjustment, 1/2 and 3/4 will be still offset from each other. IMO there needs to be an offset in software that can be set per-nozzle.

[ar__systems]

Actually, about that.... In my version of 1.27 I do have component rotation by feeder. But the pickup angle has no effect. None. And angles on back feeders are all of by 180...

[dtf]

Actually, about that.... I my version of 1.27 I do have component rotation by feeder. But the pickup angle has no effect. None. And angles on back feeders are all of by 180...

On the original software the back feeders were deliberately out by 180 so you can move a part from front to back without changing its angle in the picknplace file, do you mean this feature is gone?

[ar__systems]

That makes sense. Can't remember exactly, I think it is reversed now.

[dtf]

Never mind, the per-component rotation isn't on the feeder screen, but kept in the pick-file feeder assignment screen, I just missed it there.

With the new motion board and after recalibrating everything, the machine is placing much better than before, did a few hundred 0402 today to test and it's much more precise, and is keeping its calibration. The nozzle Z-height adjustment is still quite off but the nozzle pairs are better matched now.

Also the fiducial recognition has been improved, it can accept more shapes, and you can specify the size of the mark to detect. Although I'm having trouble with it, the threshold settings for one fiducial do not work on the other one... lol

[thommo]

Hi dtf,

Great to hear the new Main board sorts out some of the minor issues. Ours is apparently on its way.

Question:
0402 components - what stencil / paste machine are you guys using to apply paste for your 0402 boards?

We've got some coming up soon but we're only using a manual Chinese 'hinged frame' style printer, and I'm not certain if we'll get what's required for the 0402s.

What paste and oven are you guys using also?

Thnx - Pete

Never mind, the per-component rotation isn't on the feeder screen, but kept in the pick-file feeder assignment screen, I just missed it there.

With the new motion board and after recalibrating everything, the machine is placing much better than before, did a few hundred 0402 today to test and it's much more precise, and is keeping its calibration. The nozzle Z-height adjustment is still quite off but the nozzle pairs are better matched now.

Also the fiducial recognition has been improved, it can accept more shapes, and you can specify the size of the mark to detect. Although I'm having trouble with it, the threshold settings for one fiducial do not work on the other one... lol

[dtf]

Was using the QiHE-supplied stencil printer but it's absolute junk. I even broke it yesterday. Moving on

Oven is also the QiHE-supplied T960 which is working fine after some adjustment and trial runs, it requires some hot temps and slow conveyor for SAC305, and to be consistent across board sizes and thicknesses.

Hi dtf,

Great to hear the new Main board sorts out some of the minor issues. Ours is apparently on its way.

Question:
0402 components - what stencil / paste machine are you guys using to apply paste for your 0402 boards?

We've got some coming up soon but we're only using a manual Chinese 'hinged frame' style printer, and I'm not certain if we'll get what's required for the 0402s.

What paste and oven are you guys using also?

Thnx - Pete

Never mind, the per-component rotation isn't on the feeder screen, but kept in the pick-file feeder assignment screen, I just missed it there.

With the new motion board and after recalibrating everything, the machine is placing much better than before, did a few hundred 0402 today to test and it's much more precise, and is keeping its calibration. The nozzle Z-height adjustment is still quite off but the nozzle pairs are better matched now.

Also the fiducial recognition has been improved, it can accept more shapes, and you can specify the size of the mark to detect. Although I'm having trouble with it, the threshold settings for one fiducial do not work on the other one... lol

[dtf]

Going to try turning down the pressure even more, still having problems with 12mm feeders and 4mm pitch

[thommo]

Hi dtf,

Thanks for the reply.

Have you made any decisions on replacements yet?
We bought a conveyor oven from a CN company called Torch, who also make paste machines and I know that Mr Packethead has recently purchased one. I'm waiting to hear what he has to report before diving in.

Out of interest, what specifically were the shortcomings in the QiHe machine [the 3rd party one they offer]?
BTW - we have the same machine - without any breakages so far. Difficult to imagine where it could be 'broken' actually.

The main issue that I see with using it for 0402 sized components is my own human failure and inability to repeatedly apply the paste with the same pressure and consistency.

Will be interested in your first-hand experience with it on these sized components.

Thanks again - P

Was using the QiHE-supplied stencil printer but it's absolute junk. I even broke it yesterday. Moving on

Oven is also the QiHE-supplied T960 which is working fine after some adjustment and trial runs, it requires some hot temps and slow conveyor for SAC305, and to be consistent across board sizes and thicknesses.

Hi dtf,

Great to hear the new Main board sorts out some of the minor issues. Ours is apparently on its way.

Question:
0402 components - what stencil / paste machine are you guys using to apply paste for your 0402 boards?

We've got some coming up soon but we're only using a manual Chinese 'hinged frame' style printer, and I'm not certain if we'll get what's required for the 0402s.

What paste and oven are you guys using also?

Thnx - Pete

Never mind, the per-component rotation isn't on the feeder screen, but kept in the pick-file feeder assignment screen, I just missed it there.

With the new motion board and after recalibrating everything, the machine is placing much better than before, did a few hundred 0402 today to test and it's much more precise, and is keeping its calibration. The nozzle Z-height adjustment is still quite off but the nozzle pairs are better matched now.

Also the fiducial recognition has been improved, it can accept more shapes, and you can specify the size of the mark to detect. Although I'm having trouble with it, the threshold settings for one fiducial do not work on the other one... lol

[Backerly]

I've had a TVM920 for a few weeks now. Really impressed with the hardware! But the software really lets it down. QiHe tell me I have the latest version software but I have been having a lot of problems with fiducial recognition. Despite having mask devoid 1.5mm fiducials that work really well with another machine (MDC7722FV) the TVM920 preferentially locks onto other entities well outside of the target zone that are nowhere near this size! Qihe's answer is to use manual fiducials. Which just seems wrong to me for a vision based machine. And it sometimes does some really weird things with the parts too!

[m72]

Hi!
I am new to this PnP machine but I have tryed to modify it.

1. Acrylic glass has removed.
2. Added an "light ring" with red LEDs to UV photo filter (47mm).
3. This construction is inserted into machine.

There are three stages on video.

1. With acrilyc glass. The MVision is in trouble to detect the border on "difficult IC". Sometimes entering in "dead loop".
https://youtu.be/CAbwZSlUvvk

2. With UF filer situation is better but not the best.
https://youtu.be/x4aDjddtJQY

3. With UF and working "light ring". Works perfect. There are no "dead loops" in recognition.
https://youtu.be/WUepd2Ag7M8
https://youtu.be/b5FleoYFnas

P.S.
If detection of fiducials fails the speed of carriage moving for "manual correction" is the same as in "manual mode" before. So you need to change the speed in "manual mode" and start execution after that.

[thommo]

Hi m72,

That' looks like a good result.

We removed the Acrylic lens too and also replaced it with a simple glass UV filter. It sits down on top of the lens assembly, as opposed to up at the top on the same plane as the LEDs. The idea being to reduce the amount of 'flare' generated by the LED 'spill' light, and reflections from the component itself.

Did you create the new LED ring, or manage to find one commercially available?

I imagine that the extra amount of light would greatly assist the 'image recognition' process.

Pete

[ar__systems]

I too added more LEDs to the up-camera. However I added white LEDs, and I placed them next to (actually on top of) the bottom row of the original red ones.

I don't understand why they use red LEDs. It is a color camera, if you use only one color you increase noise of the output. Works much better with white LEDs.

Thanks for the tip regarding manual mode.

QiHe tell me I have the latest version software

What version is that?

[m72]

The main idea of this modernisation: metal pads are mirrors. Matted but mirrors. So we need a bit more light near to the optic axis.

The "light ring" is homemade. The inner diameter 35mm (24x24mm of the viewing area).

[ar__systems]

Nah, it only works like this for gold finish boards. HASL pads don't work as mirrors, since they are almost always shaped as pillows.

[dtf]

I think I found the cause of my 12/16/24mm feeder problems (parts bouncing around on the tape between peel area and pick area), the tape cover/peeler/slider can lift up slightly, which it does when the tape underneath is pressed up against it. On a real YV100 this cover is tensioned down by a plate in the machine, TVM920 has no such plate, I'll have to 3dprint something or rig up some sort of tensioner