SMALLSMT Vision Placer Pick & Place machines

[glenenglish]

Software has a support cost, so  that it is possible small SMT might consider no software- no support , and less money.

TVM920 is closed loop steppers but Charmhigh 930 is not.

as for the openPNP support

Michael, essentially, you need someone who udnerstands basic Java. I had to learn java  which took a few hours but as a c++ programmer, not too hard

there is actually only ONE file you need to generate for OpenPNP integration in Java.

In the TVM920 I wrote the one interface file for OpenPNp .java as a socket interface . So then I had a TVM920 interface program that talked sockets also.

probably a few days work all up.

I'd suggest that you use your existing Visionplacer software, and provide a "external interface" , like a socket interface to accept commands

so that Visionplacer is  concurrent with OpenPNP.
IE commands can come from the GUI in Vision placer or OpernPNP via the interface

I used sockets (single TCPIP)  because it's fairly platform independent.

g

[Smallsmt]

Hi Glen,

as i wrote before our Vision Placer V3 has Hardware Abstraction Layer build in one file our controller DLL.
This DLL will be open source soon so it is possible to create an interface to any PNP machine on the market.

I understand People like open source software but in my opinion OpenPNP is a very basic software now and I didn't worked with it.
So I can't say it's an improvement because even our standard Chinese software works reliable and stable and has more features than OpenPNP has now.
The only difference is it's open source.

I don't know how precise is the alignment or how reliable is Java software working over time.
I had some experience with MPLAB and HT IDE and it was not really nice.
One of the biggest issues was the performance of JAVA software and the security problems the VM caused on my computers.

TVM920 is closed loop steppers but Charmhigh 930 is not.

This type of closed loop doesn't affect your precision it prevents only step losses and we never had step loss because we used high torque stepper motors.
We use real closed loop on our ball screw spindle and to increase precision VP-3000 has auto calibration feature on position feedback so no alignment needed until the software tells you to adjust the belt tension or replace the belts.

The biggest issue for your TVM920 are the missing linear guides try to move the PNP head up and down and you will see some shaking.
Every start and stop produce this nick down on placement head and this cause placement errors on high speed.
Even our VP-2500DP has better mechanics and costs less.
Yes I know TVM 920 supports feeder cassettes and it has four heads. But did you placed 250000 component's in a year and the mechanics is still well? How about the valves driving the feeder cassettes how many cycles will they remain.
If you use 4 different nozzles in four heads you maybe can use only one head at a time?
We are able to use 6 different nozzles maybe 10 on VP-30XXD because it could be nice to have 2 similar nozzles on both heads.

Software has a support cost, so  that it is possible small SMT might consider no software- no support , and less money.

The answer is so simple i protect my IP you do for your development too?
If you sell your products to market did you open everything for customers?

We sell a out of the box working system and most of my customer dislike to rework the software interface to get the PNP running.
I supply updates free of charge but sure we sell software instead of sharing it to hundreds of competitors.

Glen I wish you all the best for your great work and hope everything will be fine next year too.

[mrpackethead]

The only difference is it's open source.

Which is a massive difference.

[harry4516]

...
We sell a out of the box working system and most of my customer dislike to rework the software interface to get the PNP running.
...

I can agree 100% after my experiences with the TVM802.
But before purchasing the smallsmt machine I will check if it is really working out of the box 
I don't have the time to go the same way as with the TVM802 again.

it's good to know that Michael's software is not written in Java.
Java is ok for smartphones, but I would never rely on Java as a machine controlling software.
The Chinese software is written in C# which is very similar to Java but a lot more reliable.

[mrpackethead]

Choice of language really impacts a LOT less than the ability of the programmer to understand the solution.

If the end product does the job reliably then it really doe'snt matter what its written in does it.

 

[cmantunes]

TVM920 is closed loop steppers but Charmhigh 930 is not.

The CHMT530P has this as part of specs: "XY Axis stepper motor with encoder". I'd be surprised if this doesn't mean closed loop.

[Smallsmt]

it's good to know that Michael's software is not written in Java.
Java is ok for smartphones, but I would never rely on Java as a machine controlling software.
The Chinese software is written in C# which is very similar to Java but a lot more reliable.

Our Chinese software was build on c# 3.5 Framework using OpenCV 2.6.
The new German Vision Placer V3 was build using C++ multi platform developtment using QT 5.6 and OpenCV 3.2.
It is multi threaded and has a very good image processing performance.
Mostly image processsing is finished within 20 to 40ms.

[mrpackethead]

why did you change from writing in C# to C++.    Different development team?

[Smallsmt]

why did you change from writing in C# to C++.    Different development team?

We use Germany based development team.
New software works on windows and we support Linux too.

And we need high performance because we want to increase speed.

In our new design multi head and multi x axis systems are possible too.

[cmantunes]

Our Chinese software was build on c# 3.5 Framework using OpenCV 2.6.

Congratulations on switching from C# to C++ and my condolences for choosing to use Qt. It should have been wxWidgets! Let the software religious wars begin!

EDIT: Supporting Linux is a big plus for me, BTW.

[Smallsmt]

Our Chinese software was build on c# 3.5 Framework using OpenCV 2.6.

Congratulations on switching from C# to C++ and my condolences for choosing to use Qt. It should have been wxWidgets! Let the software religious wars begin!

EDIT: Supporting Linux is a big plus for me, BTW.

Do you know how much pain we received when scaling the app on a 4K screen?
QT was a nigthmare in this point.

[glenenglish]

The CHMT530P has this as part of specs: "XY Axis stepper motor with encoder". I'd be surprised if this doesn't mean closed loop

---you are indeed right....seems there has been an upgrade since initial release.

I use wxWidgets and c++... Qt is good also.

Market is splitting into  CL feeders versus drag feeders.
Difference between belt and screw is less of an issue now, but I still like the screw machines. Belt would need more care and feeding. For the screw, just keep the lubrication up

Michael what ball screw lead are you using on your screw machines ?

[Smallsmt]

Hi Glen.
sorry for the late reply I am in China these days.

We use 20mm screw lead.

Best regards
Michael

[TJ232]

Hi Michael,

Any news about your new machine?
What's the latest target for the release date?

As I said before, I am really interested to buy a reliable PNP machine of this size.

Thanks,
TJ.

[Smallsmt]

Hi TJ,

we are currently finalizing the machine.
The head system got changed because of new ideas and it's in production now.
Our X bridge is updated too and in production too.
We changed the nozzle changer cart and put all 10 nozzles in one cart to add a damage protection if cart not empty.

The new head design has spindles on all 3 heads to support a new anti collision strategy. We lift the heads up when placing taller parts the total range of our Z axis is now 30mm. Our optional third head is used for dispenser applications.

Vision Placer V3 software will be finished end of February.

We had some delay's in our complex product but the final plan is to ship the beta machines in March and starting to ship the the final machines in April.

Best regards
Michael

[Smallsmt]

Final design of our VP-30XXD and VP-30XXT finished.
We increased the feeder count up to 92 Yamaha CL feeder cassettes.
The travel way for Z axis is now 30mm!
Cover and stand optional!
Dispenser head option including the controller optional!
New Feeder stock option!

https://www.smallsmt.biz/visionplacer-vp-3000d/



 

[protoneer]

When do they go on sale? How long does it take to ship after the order has been placed?

[Smallsmt]

When do they go on sale? How long does it take to ship after the order has been placed?

Realistic dates for shipping are end of May 2017 we are delayed!

The machine will ship 4 weeks after order was placed.

[protoneer]

I have been following your page for a while now.. Are you planning on adding a few videos of the new machine in action?

Seeing the tool changer in action would be nice.

Will this handle 16mm reels at 16mm pitch? I am looking for a machine that will do smd Caps that are up to 15mm high.

Also interested in Stepper vs Servo comparisons.

Do you size and weight details yet?

[TJ232]

Sounds interesting, looking forward to see some real-action videos, will be great also a set of video tutorials related with basic operations like, calibration, feeders load/unload, PCB setup/fiducials/panelisation, emergency stop, etc etc...you know, all the goodies that a 10K+ USD machine should have these days.

I am very interested in a small size machine like this one and I will prefer a US/European made one with proper support than a chinese "sell-and-forget" one. Still keeping an eye on TVM series but only because they are close to be able to run OpenPNP and that keeps me away from their original software package.

[Smallsmt]

I have been following your page for a while now.. Are you planning on adding a few videos of the new machine in action?

Seeing the tool changer in action would be nice.

Will this handle 16mm reels at 16mm pitch? I am looking for a machine that will do smd Caps that are up to 15mm high.

Also interested in Stepper vs Servo comparisons.

Do you size and weight details yet?

Hi protoneer,
we are currently building this last design so it will take some weeks until we can show the new videos.

The stepper system will be running slower only the resolution is the same.


Technical Data:

Dimensions:

Base machine 935 x 1050 x 430mm, including Feeder 1160 x 1485 x 430mm

Machine including cover 935 x 1050 x 485mm, including Feeder 1160 x 1485 x 485mm

weight for the base unit is 75Kg , Stand 28Kg, Cover 35Kg, each feeder 1,4Kg
 

Nozzles:

We use CP45 Samsung nozzles.
1x 10 slot nozzle changer carts.
So it's possible to use 10 nozzles in one placement job including the option to use the same nozzle on both heads.

Dispenser:

The optional third head can be used independently to apply glue or paste to the PCB.

Feeder System:

28x 8mm Yamaha CL feeder cassettes on South
28x 8mm Yamaha CL feeder cassettes on North or 2x Exchangeable disk feeder on North optional
30x 8mm Yamaha CL feeder cassettes on East plus 6x 8mm / 12mm / 16mm Yamaha CL feeder cassettes on East totally 36.
3x small tray feeders possible one in front of the West feeder bank and two between the cameras!

Totally up to 92x 8mm or 86x 8mm and 6x 12/16mm Yamaha CL feeder cassettes on a single machine!

PCB Area:

400x400mm working area for PCB and trays fast clamp mechanic to fix the PCB inside PCB holder.

Position System:

Belt driven X / Y  axis.
Spindle drive for Z axis.
Closed loop positioning using linear scale encoder system on X and Y axis.
Closed loop positioning using stall detection on Z axis. (TRINAMIC)
Stepper motors standard on X and Y axis (PRO) but servo (PREMIUM) motors upgradeable!
We use MELSERVO Mitsubishi Japan servo motors.

[Smallsmt]

Still keeping an eye on TVM series but only because they are close to be able to run OpenPNP and that keeps me away from their original software package.

Are there any working videos until now?

[Smallsmt]

You can review a detailed software overview on our website.
We do instruction videos too after everything got finished.
The machine will do a self calibration should work out of the box.

https://www.smallsmt.biz/visionplacer-v3-000-preview/

[TJ232]

Any Vibration feeder option? How many lanes max?

I have been following your page for a while now.. Are you planning on adding a few videos of the new machine in action?

Seeing the tool changer in action would be nice.

Will this handle 16mm reels at 16mm pitch? I am looking for a machine that will do smd Caps that are up to 15mm high.

Also interested in Stepper vs Servo comparisons.

Do you size and weight details yet?

Hi protoneer,
we are currently building this last design so it will take some weeks until we can show the new videos.

The stepper system will be running slower only the resolution is the same.


Technical Data:

Dimensions:

Base machine 935 x 1050 x 430mm, including Feeder 1160 x 1485 x 430mm

Machine including cover 935 x 1050 x 485mm, including Feeder 1160 x 1485 x 485mm

weight for the base unit is 75Kg , Stand 28Kg, Cover 35Kg, each feeder 1,4Kg
 

Nozzles:

We use CP45 Samsung nozzles.
1x 10 slot nozzle changer carts.
So it's possible to use 10 nozzles in one placement job including the option to use the same nozzle on both heads.

Dispenser:

The optional third head can be used independently to apply glue or paste to the PCB.

Feeder System:

28x 8mm Yamaha CL feeder cassettes on South
28x 8mm Yamaha CL feeder cassettes on North or 2x Exchangeable disk feeder on North optional
30x 8mm Yamaha CL feeder cassettes on East plus 6x 8mm / 12mm / 16mm Yamaha CL feeder cassettes on East totally 36.
3x small tray feeders possible one in front of the West feeder bank and two between the cameras!

Totally up to 92x 8mm or 86x 8mm and 6x 12/16mm Yamaha CL feeder cassettes on a single machine!

PCB Area:

400x400mm working area for PCB and trays fast clamp mechanic to fix the PCB inside PCB holder.

Position System:

Belt driven X / Y  axis.
Spindle drive for Z axis.
Closed loop positioning using linear scale encoder system on X and Y axis.
Closed loop positioning using stall detection on Z axis. (TRINAMIC)
Stepper motors standard on X and Y axis (PRO) but servo (PREMIUM) motors upgradeable!
We use MELSERVO Mitsubishi Japan servo motors.

[TJ232]

Have seen some promising attempts, but as I said, I consider now TVM machines been CLOSE to be able to smoothly run OpenPNP.
Keep an eye on the OpenPNP forum, for sure there you can find the latest news about.
Any cheap chinese machine that will be able to run properly out of the box OpenPNP will be the big hit of 2017! Sadly the chinese doesn't understand very well the big plus that can be added by such an option, at no extra costs for them!
 I have built a very basic machine, mechanics it's way inferior to a TVM machine but because of the OpenPNP software it's way more easy to use and more flexible than a 4 times more expensive CN one.

Still keeping an eye on TVM series but only because they are close to be able to run OpenPNP and that keeps me away from their original software package.

Are there any working videos until now?