Author Topic: SMALLSMT Vision Placer Pick & Place machines  (Read 62099 times)

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Offline Dubbie

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Re: SMALLSMT Vision Placer Pick & Place machines
« Reply #325 on: July 13, 2018, 07:27:20 am »
Are those unsupported linear rails on Y?
 

Online rx8pilot

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Re: SMALLSMT Vision Placer Pick & Place machines
« Reply #326 on: July 13, 2018, 07:30:24 am »
Are those unsupported linear rails on Y?

Sure looks like it. A general violation of intergalactic laws of physics.
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Offline vonnieda

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Re: SMALLSMT Vision Placer Pick & Place machines
« Reply #327 on: July 13, 2018, 02:18:05 pm »
We released our new desktop PNP VP-2800HP-CL22 a ball screw spindle machine using 22 CL feeder, 35x 8mm push feeder and 2 vibration feeder plus 300x400mm work area and 2 or 4 heads.

Great looking machine! Congrats on the new release!
 
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Offline Smallsmt

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Re: SMALLSMT Vision Placer Pick & Place machines
« Reply #328 on: August 03, 2018, 04:22:24 pm »
I updated the VP-2800HP-Cl64 informations on our web page.

The machine will be shown on Maker Faire Hannover from 15 to 16 September.



https://www.smallsmt.biz/vp2800hp-cl64/

We uploaded a new software update to V2.034 and manual update too.

The system supports now mark points to center specific components on PCB.
We are able to use feeder assigned precision settings, speed settings, vision settings and vision model.
This informtions now availiable in package database too for simple feeder data updates.


 

Offline Smallsmt

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Re: SMALLSMT Vision Placer Pick & Place machines
« Reply #329 on: August 19, 2018, 06:00:16 am »
I added some working videos and table kit pictures to VP-2800HP-CL64-4H webpage.

https://www.smallsmt.biz/vp2800hp-cl64/



TQFP100 0.5mm pitch  placement


 

Offline Smallsmt

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Re: SMALLSMT Vision Placer Pick & Place machines
« Reply #330 on: September 06, 2018, 05:27:10 am »
The new VP-2800HP-CL64-4H arrived!

Placement range from 0201 to 30x30mm parts.

We take to Maker Faire Hannover from 15 to 16 September.

- 4 heads
- 64x 8mm CL Feeder slots in 2 bays
- 35x 8mm push feeder included
- Optional up to 4 vibration feeder modules
- Up to 600 x 450mm working area
- Optional 2x Jedec Tray holder on both sides plus 350x300mm PCB holder
- 2x Bottom cameras plus 1x Top camera
- Bottom camera 1 align up to 12x12mm parts
- Bottom camera 2 align up to 30x30mm parts
- 1000W + 400W LEETRO AC Servo motors
- 3x HIWIN linear guide lines on Y axis
- High precision HIWIN ball screw spindles

https://www.smallsmt.biz/vp2800hp-cl64/

   
 

Online rx8pilot

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Re: SMALLSMT Vision Placer Pick & Place machines
« Reply #331 on: September 06, 2018, 06:27:44 am »
What is the average pickup success rate for 0201? Does it need to image parts that small to accurately place them?
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Offline mrpackethead

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Re: SMALLSMT Vision Placer Pick & Place machines
« Reply #332 on: September 06, 2018, 08:13:37 am »
Is this your German assembled machine, or is this one also a chinese made one?  Good to see your design makign progress.
 

Offline harry4516

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Re: SMALLSMT Vision Placer Pick & Place machines
« Reply #333 on: September 06, 2018, 09:26:22 am »
as I understood, the machine assembled in Germany is the VP30xx series. Thats what I was looking for. But the last pictures on the web site are from December 2016, and then it got very quiet about this machine. I was ready to wait for it for a long time ... but it looks like it will take maybe too long for me.
 

Offline Smallsmt

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Re: SMALLSMT Vision Placer Pick & Place machines
« Reply #334 on: September 06, 2018, 06:07:06 pm »
What is the average pickup success rate for 0201? Does it need to image parts that small to accurately place them?

If you use a original Samsung Nozzle the pickup succes rate is about 99%.
You need to use the vision alignment to accurately place them!!!
 

Offline Smallsmt

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Re: SMALLSMT Vision Placer Pick & Place machines
« Reply #335 on: September 06, 2018, 06:08:05 pm »
Is this your German assembled machine, or is this one also a chinese made one?  Good to see your design makign progress.

This is our Chinese premium line machine.
 

Offline Smallsmt

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Re: SMALLSMT Vision Placer Pick & Place machines
« Reply #336 on: September 06, 2018, 06:14:18 pm »
as I understood, the machine assembled in Germany is the VP30xx series. Thats what I was looking for. But the last pictures on the web site are from December 2016, and then it got very quiet about this machine. I was ready to wait for it for a long time ... but it looks like it will take maybe too long for me.

We wasted more than 100000€ for the VP30XX machine development and can't finish without higher budget.

The mechanics are build and a german company ATN is using it for their BASIC line soon.

Our V3 software is under redesign and need 6 months to get finished.

For VP30XX the electronics is under construction and 50% finished.

Finally I can only say we will sell VP30XX machines when project get finished.

The best alternative now is VP-2800HP-CL64-4H or VP-2800HP-Cl64-2H.
We add a 3 zone conveyour in the next 3 months too.
 

Offline Smallsmt

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Re: SMALLSMT Vision Placer Pick & Place machines
« Reply #337 on: September 13, 2018, 09:23:41 pm »
Visit us on Maker Faire Hannover this week!
We show VP-2800HP-CL64, Qihe TVM925, Reflow oven  and our new SMT VISOR PCB inspection system.

 

Offline mrpackethead

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Re: SMALLSMT Vision Placer Pick & Place machines
« Reply #338 on: September 14, 2018, 06:06:18 am »
SMT VISOR PCB inspection system.  - Could you show us some shots of the User interface for it?
 

Offline Smallsmt

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Re: SMALLSMT Vision Placer Pick & Place machines
« Reply #339 on: September 14, 2018, 07:55:55 am »
SMT VISOR PCB inspection system.  - Could you show us some shots of the User interface for it?

You want to know if it is similar to Suba microscope?

Yes the UI looks similar but we use a different camera head from Shenzhen supplier and added a quality microscope zoom lens plus light and stand.
Our camera can take still's and video on micro SD card.
We offer a complete system you only need to add HDMI monitor.

https://www.smallsmt.biz/pcb-inspection/

Next step we offer a multi color and sektor changing top light we developed by ourselves.

We offer a second cam head it has WIFI plus PC USB interface.

Have a look at our Maker Faire booth in Hannover
https://twitter.com/SMALLSMT/status/1040346640392040448


 

Offline mrpackethead

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Re: SMALLSMT Vision Placer Pick & Place machines
« Reply #340 on: September 14, 2018, 09:52:17 am »

Yes the UI looks similar


Thanks. was just curious.
 

Offline Marmes

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Re: SMALLSMT Vision Placer Pick & Place machines
« Reply #341 on: October 06, 2018, 01:52:10 am »
And what about a nice conveyor?
 

Offline Smallsmt

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Re: SMALLSMT Vision Placer Pick & Place machines
« Reply #342 on: October 06, 2018, 03:30:48 am »
And what about a nice conveyor?

We plan to release a VP-2800HP-CL64 including a 3 zone conveyour end of the year maybe 1Q2019.
It has loading zone mounting and unloading belt like a big PNP machine has.

You will loose the push feeder and 2 vibration feeder units on east side.
I am collecting informations about the interfaces to sync the reflow and pcb stack loader.
 

Offline Marmes

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Re: SMALLSMT Vision Placer Pick & Place machines
« Reply #343 on: October 06, 2018, 07:51:00 am »
And what ovens do you recommend for your systems?
 

Offline Smallsmt

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Re: SMALLSMT Vision Placer Pick & Place machines
« Reply #344 on: October 06, 2018, 08:07:21 am »
It depends on your use case.

BGA and Modules >> Vapor phase

Standard non high density boards Reflow.

We release in the next weeks a modified ZB oven with 300x300mm reflow area and hot air.
It has exhaust vent to cover the whole reflow cycle inside the oven. It can work in constant temperature mode and keep a base temperature after reflow to speed up the cycle.
It passed the first CE test and waiting for second check in Germany.
 

Online rx8pilot

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Re: SMALLSMT Vision Placer Pick & Place machines
« Reply #345 on: October 06, 2018, 08:53:46 am »
It depends on your use case.

BGA and Modules >> Vapor phase

Any recommends for Vapor Phase?
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Offline Marmes

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Re: SMALLSMT Vision Placer Pick & Place machines
« Reply #346 on: October 06, 2018, 09:00:07 am »
Will your products be CE certified?
Because from my point of view, they have quality, I believe they can give some good competition to other brands. I'm in the process of selecting a small assembly line for myself. Second hand is risky, and for starting, I think these benchtop or smaller machines are great.
 

Offline mrpackethead

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Re: SMALLSMT Vision Placer Pick & Place machines
« Reply #347 on: October 06, 2018, 09:13:02 am »
Will your products be CE certified?
Because from my point of view, they have quality, I believe they can give some good competition to other brands. I'm in the process of selecting a small assembly line for myself. Second hand is risky, and for starting, I think these benchtop or smaller machines are great.

I would suggest that buying good 2nd hand from a PnP vendor will give you signigficnatly better results than the low cost benchtops.   Speaking from experience, having done both.
 

Online rx8pilot

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Re: SMALLSMT Vision Placer Pick & Place machines
« Reply #348 on: October 06, 2018, 10:04:13 am »

I would suggest that buying good 2nd hand from a PnP vendor will give you signigficnatly better results than the low cost benchtops.   Speaking from experience, having done both.

I will agree, as I have done on numerous P&P threads.

There are a lot of similarities between CNC machining and P&P (I do both). Some important ones.....
1. It looks easier than it is.
2. The small, low-cost machines tend to be more difficult than full-size commercial machines.
3. The critical little details pour in at an alarming rate
4. However long you think it will take - multiply that by 10 or more.

Printing is hard.
Setting up is hard.
Proving the 1st PCB is hard.
Re-Flow is hard.
Organizing the parts is hard.
Organizing the process is hard.

A reliable and easy to operate P&P machine itself is only a small step toward assembling PCB's. If it is fiddly, unreliable, difficult, or otherwise has some critical limitations - it can be a huge step backward.

If your PCB's are very simple with a small number of big parts - a benchtop machine can certainly be a useful option. If you are expecting a large number of unique parts or small parts - it gets difficult quickly.

Think about the smallest passive you would like to place.
Think about the greatest number of unique parts you will have in a given design.
Think about how much time you are ok with switching from one design to the next. A larger commercial machine can hold a lot of parts. On mine, it is usually set up for 3-4 different designs at any given moment. It holds about 120+ parts which I thought was ridiculous but I keep it full all the time and it is awesome. Very quick.




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Offline mrpackethead

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Re: SMALLSMT Vision Placer Pick & Place machines
« Reply #349 on: October 06, 2018, 02:40:46 pm »

I would suggest that buying good 2nd hand from a PnP vendor will give you signigficnatly better results than the low cost benchtops.   Speaking from experience, having done both.

I will agree, as I have done on numerous P&P threads.

There are a lot of similarities between CNC machining and P&P (I do both). Some important ones.....
1. It looks easier than it is.
2. The small, low-cost machines tend to be more difficult than full-size commercial machines.
3. The critical little details pour in at an alarming rate
4. However long you think it will take - multiply that by 10 or more.

Printing is hard.
Setting up is hard.
Proving the 1st PCB is hard.
Re-Flow is hard.
Organizing the parts is hard.
Organizing the process is hard.

A reliable and easy to operate P&P machine itself is only a small step toward assembling PCB's. If it is fiddly, unreliable, difficult, or otherwise has some critical limitations - it can be a huge step backward.

If your PCB's are very simple with a small number of big parts - a benchtop machine can certainly be a useful option. If you are expecting a large number of unique parts or small parts - it gets difficult quickly.

Think about the smallest passive you would like to place.
Think about the greatest number of unique parts you will have in a given design.
Think about how much time you are ok with switching from one design to the next. A larger commercial machine can hold a lot of parts. On mine, it is usually set up for 3-4 different designs at any given moment. It holds about 120+ parts which I thought was ridiculous but I keep it full all the time and it is awesome. Very quick.

One day, someone might ( it might be mr_smallsmt ) actually build a desktop machine that reliably works without the frustrations.    The QiHe, NeoDen, Charmingtech,  and other similar brands have been trying really hard, but as yet, its just not quite there.     Feeder systems end up being compromised.     As you say its hard, and you dont' need the machinery being the cause of your issues.
 


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