Author Topic: SMALLSMT Vision Placer Pick & Place machines  (Read 61941 times)

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Offline Smallsmt

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Re: SMALLSMT Vision Placer Pick & Place machines
« Reply #75 on: July 06, 2016, 06:48:14 am »
Hi Max,
we have a lot of work to finish but I hope we can deliver the best machine for this price.
And we need the Kickstarter campain to start a "mass production" to keep the costs low.
The mechanic for this machine will be build in Germany but we want to keep it simple and expandable on customer needs.
Our software is the key!

Here is a preview for our new vision system functions.
http://www.smallsmt.biz/visionplacer-v3-preview/
« Last Edit: July 06, 2016, 06:59:53 am by Smallsmt »
 

Online Koen

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Re: SMALLSMT Vision Placer Pick & Place machines
« Reply #76 on: July 06, 2016, 09:08:59 am »
Hello,

     somewhat related, I would be interested in buying software. I can easily assemble a pick and place myself but I do not have time to tweak and support less-functional software or starting one from scratch.

     EDIT: I mean, I have linear rails, ballscrews, motors, drivers, milling and turning machines, metrology stuff to do the physical part but what's delaying the project start is finding an usable software handling bottom vision.
« Last Edit: July 06, 2016, 09:11:33 am by Koen »
 

Offline ez24

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Re: SMALLSMT Vision Placer Pick & Place machines
« Reply #77 on: July 06, 2016, 10:38:58 am »
http://www.smallsmt.biz/about-1/

I think it unusual and refreshing for a Chinese website to be so complete   :-+
Especially a small one.
Congrats
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Offline H.O

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Re: SMALLSMT Vision Placer Pick & Place machines
« Reply #78 on: July 06, 2016, 03:36:22 pm »
Hello,

     somewhat related, I would be interested in buying software. I can easily assemble a pick and place myself but I do not have time to tweak and support less-functional software or starting one from scratch.

     EDIT: I mean, I have linear rails, ballscrews, motors, drivers, milling and turning machines, metrology stuff to do the physical part but what's delaying the project start is finding an usable software handling bottom vision.
I was in the exact same boat a couple of months back. Had a basic XYZ platform up and running but was stuck on software. I'm not a programmer so I didn't want something where I had to write a lot of code - thinking OpenPnP was that (I was wrong).

Contacted Michael and was quoted $1000 for software and controller which I was prepared to pay but he couldn't offer any "integration support" on how to wire it up and make it work with my hardware - something he was clear and upfront with and something I understand and respect since he is selling turn-key machines.

His documentation on the controller wasn't bad at all and I've dealt with various motion control stuff over the years so I wasn't too worried about the hardware side of things. But I had some questions on what cameras I needed to supply (resolution, field of view etc) and, key-point in my case, if the software/controller could be setup to send commands to intelligent feeder/feederbanks. Those questions never got answered so I turned to OpenPnP instead. And really, although I haven't actually run my machine with it yet the progress that's been made on it in the last couple of months has been incredible. But that discussion certainly is more suitable in another thread.

Oh, I meant to say that I hope that this v3 controller and new software is designed to easier be adopted to other machines.
 

Offline Smallsmt

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Re: SMALLSMT Vision Placer Pick & Place machines
« Reply #79 on: July 06, 2016, 03:59:16 pm »
Quote
Oh, I meant to say that I hope that this v3 controller and new software is designed to easier be adopted to other machines.

The new software can be adopted to other machines by rewriting the machine driver dll and I will provide an SDK how to build by yourself.
Hopefully the software can support a lot of different machines in the future.

Our new V3 controller is modular designed so it's possible to adopt to your mechanics and we will sell software plus controller and mechanic parts too.
My plan is to sell a preassembled head unit too so maker can adopt to their XY mechanics and need to supply only power, compressed air and CAN bus.
Vacuum generation, head controller unit and mini valves inside the head unit.

We have another module to control feeder valves or our pneumatic push feeder too.

But we still need time to finish the complete new V3 system.

 
 

Offline TJ232

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Re: SMALLSMT Vision Placer Pick & Place machines
« Reply #80 on: July 06, 2016, 07:43:12 pm »

Do you have also a estimated time for delivery for the new one?

I am also looking around for a small PNP machine for small running for tests before going on the big ones and if your new one will be around 2/3K EUR with the advertised capabilites, I can wait a bit more and not buy a TVM802.
 

Offline Smallsmt

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Re: SMALLSMT Vision Placer Pick & Place machines
« Reply #81 on: July 06, 2016, 11:28:17 pm »
Our estimated release date is January 2017 and we are on time.
 

Offline TJ232

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Re: SMALLSMT Vision Placer Pick & Place machines
« Reply #82 on: August 07, 2016, 01:58:54 am »
Hi Michael,

Any news about your new machine? Any more extra info's about?

What do you think, it will be possible to be used for placing QFN size IC's?

Thanks.
 

Offline Smallsmt

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Re: SMALLSMT Vision Placer Pick & Place machines
« Reply #83 on: August 07, 2016, 08:42:09 pm »
Hi TJ232,

Quote
What do you think, it will be possible to be used for placing QFN size IC's?

sure it will be possible to place accurate we have different options to improve precision.
The best machine have a closed loop system using a linear magnetic measurement system on X, Y and Z axis. But will not be possible on cheapest price ;)

Send me an email and I show you some pictures.

Here are some new vision system previews showing working pin one and color detection









Best regards
Michael
 

Offline TJ232

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Re: SMALLSMT Vision Placer Pick & Place machines
« Reply #84 on: August 08, 2016, 05:32:14 am »
Very interesting!

Can you post also a live Video with the software usage and some real IC placement? That will be great to see!

Thank you,
TJ.
 

Online mrpackethead

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Re: SMALLSMT Vision Placer Pick & Place machines
« Reply #85 on: August 08, 2016, 07:17:05 am »
What would be really good would be some real customer reviews of your machines..   The Neoden and QiHe folks have got communitys of people who are posting their stuff here.  That seems to be key to getting traction here.   The only reviews that we've had of anything to do with your machines were of a machine from YS that was a failure.. 

Is this new machine going to be a YS machine rebaged like the SmallSMT ones. I'm guessing since its being made in germany its not.   How will YS feel about you setting up in competition to them, when you are their "global sales agent"..   

 

Offline harry4516

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Re: SMALLSMT Vision Placer Pick & Place machines
« Reply #86 on: August 08, 2016, 07:35:28 am »
what I understood is that the machine's hardware is developed and made in China and Micheal is the German software programmer.

But mrpackethead is right, posts with pictures and videos by a customer would be great.
This is the same problem what I see with the TVM920, almost nothing reported from customers.
 

Offline Smallsmt

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Re: SMALLSMT Vision Placer Pick & Place machines
« Reply #87 on: August 08, 2016, 07:58:04 am »
Very interesting!

Can you post also a live Video with the software usage and some real IC placement? That will be great to see!

Thank you,
TJ.

Hi TJ we are not at this point to demonstrate a working machine the vision system mostly finished but machine controller part need some time.
Release date is 1/2017 so this is only a beta preview.

We sell our spindle machine well and Yusheng will be our partner  in the future too.
He delivers the spindle machine and all of our current product range.

But we want to add a machine like a lego brick from small to mid range so we decided to develop a machine build in Germany.
Our target market is the maker community, need an extendable machine concept.
Starting using very simple passive strip feeder and pockets plus exchangable disk feeder system.
And maybe extending the machine after some time using up to 50 Yamaha CL feeder cassettes.
It should be possible to upgrade the X and Y axis using closed loop servo motor system to improve the accuracy of the belt driven system.
The machine size is 850 x 700mm, we have 400x400mm PCB placement area not bad for a BASIC machine?

The new software will be able to operate the whole range of our machines (V1 + V2 controller based Yusheng machines) and if hopefully other machines too.

We will have a community member doing a review of our current VP-2500D soon.




 

Offline Smallsmt

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Re: SMALLSMT Vision Placer Pick & Place machines
« Reply #88 on: August 08, 2016, 08:02:49 am »
Quote
I do know of one TVM920 in the "wild",,,  tsthermaltech has one.. Hes reporting very good results with it.

He reported nothing about the results we are still waiting to read a review.
I asked him some weeks before but no reply too.

The TVM920 is a nice machine but I don't know how many people using it now.

SMALLSMT has 43+ machines sold since August 2015 and YUSHENG about 100+ in China.
 

Offline technotronix

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Re: SMALLSMT Vision Placer Pick & Place machines
« Reply #89 on: August 19, 2016, 03:41:06 pm »
We plan a camera upgrade to do 30x30mm parts in the near future.

Also FF Mirrorless SLR-Form camera in the near future.
 

Online mikeselectricstuff

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Re: SMALLSMT Vision Placer Pick & Place machines
« Reply #90 on: August 19, 2016, 05:05:48 pm »
We plan a camera upgrade to do 30x30mm parts in the near future.

Also FF Mirrorless SLR-Form camera in the near future.
You don't need a special camera to image large parts - you can just just take multiple images & move the part to get the corners in view
https://youtu.be/ZaqvEftw7aI?t=655
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Offline harry4516

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Re: SMALLSMT Vision Placer Pick & Place machines
« Reply #91 on: August 20, 2016, 08:48:50 am »
a problem of the TVM802 is,
when traveling from the camera to the place location
some parts can move on the nozzle, maybe due to vibrations or maybe the vacuum is not strong enough, I don't know. This
can be solved by changing the speed.

It would be very interesting to know how this issue is solved with the SmallSMT or TVM920.
 

Offline ar__systems

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Re: SMALLSMT Vision Placer Pick & Place machines
« Reply #92 on: August 20, 2016, 11:44:07 pm »
It is both. Also you need to check the nozzle's tip under microscope. It has to be flat. Speed of 60-80 is better, since the vibration is lower.

On my machine I hooked up external vacuum and now I want to try to lower the voltage that drives the steppers. With external vac it is already better.

I also grinded couple of mm off the bottom of aluminum plate on the head, that separates nozzles from camera etc. It allows placement of 5mm tall switches without them being knocked off by the head.
 

Offline Smallsmt

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Re: SMALLSMT Vision Placer Pick & Place machines
« Reply #93 on: August 21, 2016, 07:25:11 am »
Quote
It would be very interesting to know how this issue is solved with the SmallSMT or TVM920.

We have no vibration problem for our machines the guides are strong enough.
If you increase the speed too high you receive problems because of acceleration.
A servo machine with ball screws has less vibrations than a belt machine and is mor accurate to reach any position.
One big problem for belt machines is the head shaking when machine stops the belt is like a spring working.
Better belt machines use closed loop position regulation controlled by a linear scale on each axis.
And the most important thing is to use the right nozzle for each part so nozzle changer or four head system is a good option.
We support up to 6 different nozzles in one placement job.
 

Offline harry4516

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Re: SMALLSMT Vision Placer Pick & Place machines
« Reply #94 on: August 22, 2016, 03:35:58 am »
yes, I agree. My mill has ball screws and linear guides and is much more precise than the 802 (both in the same price range). Maybe I will go
for your machine, depending on the number of PCBs I have to build in future.

@ar__systems:  I have opened the 802 and found two tubes to each of the two pumps. Did you connect both or just one of these pipes ?
You have answered to this question in another thread, but I still don't understand where to connect the vacuum, maybe you can help me in more detail.
 

Offline Smallsmt

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Re: SMALLSMT Vision Placer Pick & Place machines
« Reply #95 on: September 09, 2016, 06:16:26 am »
One of our customers posted a nice working video of a VP-2500D!


 
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Offline Smallsmt

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Re: SMALLSMT Vision Placer Pick & Place machines
« Reply #96 on: September 09, 2016, 07:00:15 am »
Was he too embarrased to leave the manufacturers logo on the front panel?

Ask Dave by yourself.
 

Online Gary.M

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Re: SMALLSMT Vision Placer Pick & Place machines
« Reply #97 on: September 09, 2016, 09:13:02 am »
Dave did you buy this machine off micheal and pay about $4000 more than you'd buy it from the manufacturer in China?
I think your continual sniping spoils the tone of this forum. Please stop.

Sent from my x600 using Tapatalk

 
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Offline harry4516

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Re: SMALLSMT Vision Placer Pick & Place machines
« Reply #98 on: September 09, 2016, 10:12:31 am »
Michael, this video looks very promising, congratulation.
Looks like the machine is doing a good job.

I see that the camera is used for the SMD resistors. Is there an advantage over not using the cam ?
 

Offline ar__systems

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Re: SMALLSMT Vision Placer Pick & Place machines
« Reply #99 on: September 09, 2016, 12:03:20 pm »
Or you can choose to report it, which I will do.

MrPH please stop with the 'genuine' nonsense. Passive aggressive is what it is.
 
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