Want to buy my first Reflow Controller

[s8548a]

Hi,

I am new to the reflow world and I need to buy a reflow oven controller.

I have found this Controleo3 here:http://www.whizoo.com/buy  - any other better suggestions for 2017?
There are 2 types of kits available, for standard oven and for convection oven, I wish to get the convection oven kit.
but Mr.Peter from whizoo itself suggesting to get the standard oven kit as that it will have excellent heat distribution, but is that the fan in the convection oven is for?
can any reflow experts kindly please suggest about which one to buy? the standard oven kit or the convection oven kit?
also how many litters oven is best for the job?
anybody done a panel reflow? what is the maximum size of the panel( or pcb) achievable in a reflow controller?

another kit I have found is this one: http://www.reflowcontroller.com/index.php/store/reflow-controller-kit
it seems that the LCD in the image is not part of the kit and need a PC to run this.

Thanks.

[rbm]

I'm in the process of converting a toaster oven into a reflow oven at the moment.  From my research, the Controleo is my choice for controller.  It has a proven track record and good support structure if you have problems.

I obtained a non-convection oven from the roadside garbage.  It was a Black and Decker unit and a bit larger than the one recommended by Whizoo in his tutorial.  I exchanged a couple emails with Mr. Peter and he explained that the larger oven size might lead to coldspots.  So, I would recommend to you to get the smallest size oven that will accept the size of board you most likely will build.  If your max size leads to a large capacity oven, you could consider lowering the top elements closer to the tray, instaling a false ceiling and insulating the compartment better.

The convection fan is supposed to disturb the air to cause a more even heat distribution in the oven compartment.  The fan housing may also be a source for heat leakage.  A non-convection oven can achieve uniform heat distribution if designed properly and built well.

[asmi]

I didn't bother and instead bought T-962 for about $200. After some minor HW mods (I think about $2 in parts and about 4 hrs of my time) and flashing  community firmware, it turned out to be the best $200 I've spent!
So unless building an oven is a journey for you and not a destination, I'd recommend you at least take a look at this oven family (there are several of them for different board size, I've got the smallest as most of my boards are 10x10 cm or smaller).

[TIOUK]

I have a T-962 and although the "community" firmware is an excellent upgrade, the oven is still uneven and is likely to overheat areas of your PCBs. You can see this as white silk will turn a colour that varies from cream to light toast!

By the time you have added extra insulation, removed the masking tape and applied kaptan tape, checked earth bonding, wired a ds18b20 for cold junction compensation and finally flashed the great new firmware; you might have invested the time & money in a better solution. 

Added to the above comments, the T-962 has bad insulation on the door which can't be replaced easily, if at all, so the handle gets too hot. The bottom has no insulation either so looses heat and the tray on which you place the PCB is not flat as the result of the bending process during manufacture.

I made a convection oven and the results were amazing when compared to the T-962 which has the heaters too close to the board.

A 20L (220mm x 320mm x 210mm internal dims ) oven with 1300W IR with 4 tubes 2 top 2 bottom. From my experience 1300W is a minimum, I need to run the oven once to warm everything up or a RoSH no lead  profile isn't quite met, but when it's warm PCBs are perfect every time.

I used a controller from reflowcontroller.com, however I can't recommend it. The board is basically OK, but the all important software is another story. I plan to do a review of it in future, but don't hold your breath.

Like many, once you buy and use a controller you will probably decide to build your own as they are never exactly what you need.

[asmi]

I have a T-962 and although the "community" firmware is an excellent upgrade, the oven is still uneven and is likely to overheat areas of your PCBs. You can see this as white silk will turn a colour that varies from cream to light toast!

I'm using the oven for over a year now and never had any problems - and some of boards I've done contained big BGAs and QFNs, as well as had components on both sides of the board (which forced components and board even closer to heating elements). Maybe you need to adjust reflow profiles?

By the time you have added extra insulation, removed the masking tape and applied kaptan tape, checked earth bonding, wired a ds18b20 for cold junction compensation and finally flashed the great new firmware; you might have invested the time & money in a better solution. 

This all took about 4 hrs of my time (+ about 20 minutes of watching YT video with instructions), and it is a one-time job. I would love to see a better competitor for that kind of money.

[packetbob]

I built an oven using the Controleo 2 controller a couple years back and love it....
I wrote up an Instructable about the oven build that you might find helpful....
https://www.instructables.com/id/Making-A-SMD-Reflow-Oven/

I just do small boards (mostly singles one) so can't comment on doing larger panels...

Also set up one of the cheap pneumatic glue dispensers for solder paste..
https://www.instructables.com/id/How-to-set-up-repair-adjust-and-use-a-solder-paste/

[2N3055]

Question is which T-962 we are talking about...

Original had 800W and no fans inside...

There is T-962C available now. They claim 2500W and air recirculation in the oven for more uniform heat..

Anybody has that one?

[s8548a]

I made a convection oven and the results were amazing when compared to the T-962 which has the heaters too close to the board.

A 20L (220mm x 320mm x 210mm internal dims ) oven with 1300W IR with 4 tubes 2 top 2 bottom. From my experience 1300W is a minimum, I need to run the oven once to warm everything up or a RoSH no lead  profile isn't quite met, but when it's warm PCBs are perfect every time.

I almost lean towards the Controleo3, but deciding between the standard oven or the Convection oven seems a bit difficult.

[s8548a]

I built an oven using the Controleo 2 controller a couple years back and love it....
I wrote up an Instructable about the oven build that you might find helpful....
https://www.instructables.com/id/Making-A-SMD-Reflow-Oven/

I just do small boards (mostly singles one) so can't comment on doing larger panels...

Also set up one of the cheap pneumatic glue dispensers for solder paste..
https://www.instructables.com/id/How-to-set-up-repair-adjust-and-use-a-solder-paste/

That was a very nice and detailed build guide. Thank you.
btw how to know that the oven has a quartz element or not? I did't find a catelogue on the shopping sites mentioning about the heater element types.
and does quartz element means IR?

[asmi]

Question is which T-962 we are talking about...

Original had 800W and no fans inside...

I have original T-962 (without any letters) and it's got 2 fans - one small for cooling electronics and another big one to cool down work area. Latter slowly spins during heat up stage to aid in uniform heating. Like I said, I never had a soldering problem with it, and I soldered even "pain-in-the-ass" BGA and QFN parts.

[TIOUK]

I'm using the oven for over a year now and never had any problems - and some of boards I've done contained big BGAs and QFNs, as well as had components on both sides of the board (which forced components and board even closer to heating elements). Maybe you need to adjust reflow profiles?

My comment was more about the unevenness of heating, the discolouration was in parts of the boards, not all over!

Your boards will receive more heat in some areas than others causing the effects I mentioned. This is a problem at lead free temperatures. Look at the elements and you can see that the coil inside the satin quartz tube is not evenly wound, there are areas that get hotter than others. Add the proximity of the elements to the board and it adds up to the outer areas are cooler than the middle of the oven and the middle varies according the the element winding. Leaded profiles were not an issue although I didn't do lead reflows much. You can live with this, I used small boards in the inner zone only and they were OK .owever in the toaster oven I can put full panels and not worry about toasted pcbs in some parts and dull solder joints in others.

This all took about 4 hrs of my time (+ about 20 minutes of watching YT video with instructions), and it is a one-time job. I would love to see a better competitor for that kind of money.

4 hrs + 20 mins working on the T-962 == 4 hrs 20 mins working on a toster oven, I don't see your point.

You can get a better toaster oven for less than the cost of a T-962 albeit with a few more 'one-time' hours of work.

[asmi]

My comment was more about the unevenness of heating, the discolouration was in parts of the boards, not all over!

Your boards will receive more heat in some areas than others causing the effects I mentioned. This is a problem at lead free temperatures. Look at the elements and you can see that the coil inside the satin quartz tube is not evenly wound, there are areas that get hotter than others. Add the proximity of the elements to the board and it adds up to the outer areas are cooler than the middle of the oven and the middle varies according the the element winding. Leaded profiles were not an issue although I didn't do lead reflows much. You can live with this, I used small boards in the inner zone only and they were OK .owever in the toaster oven I can put full panels and not worry about toasted pcbs in some parts and dull solder joints in others.

Have you actually used this oven, or this all is theorizing? I haven't seen any of these issues, and you seems to be saying that I'm blind?

4 hrs + 20 mins working on the T-962 == 4 hrs 20 mins working on a toster oven, I don't see your point.

You can get a better toaster oven for less than the cost of a T-962 albeit with a few more 'one-time' hours of work.

My point is that T-962 works just fine, no need to screw around with toaster ovens.

[TIOUK]

Have you actually used this oven, or this all is theorizing? I haven't seen any of these issues, and you seems to be saying that I'm blind?

No, I'm careful in what I say, please read it.

This is my experience, ymmv and I assume yours is OK as you have said so, but you seem to doubting that my oven is a pig. It probably points to the variation in the manufacture of these ovens.

My point is that T-962 works just fine, no need to screw around with toaster ovens.

I thought you said you put 4hrs 20mins of work into fixing both the hardware and the software, my bad, I must have misread your post.

[Robaroni]

I just built the Controleo3. Very high quality parts and it works well. I thought about the Chinese T962 but felt that the Controleo3 would hold up better over time. It's not really a toaster oven when you get done with it. Since you build it yourself you get to mod it to fit your parameters like I did. It takes time to do it really well but it's worth it to me. I figure my cost was about $100 more than the T962 but you get a couple of PCB board house discounts.
Peter is very good about answering questions.

[KE5FX]

The problem with toaster ovens is that there are too many degrees of freedom to the problem, simply by virtue of the number of different toaster ovens and controller designs on the market.  If you don't have time for an R&D project, a T962 with the ESTechnical controller is a decent solution that will Just Work(tm), at least once you get your profile dialed in.

[Mr. Scram]

Many people seem to find the T962 quite terrible and requiring a fair bit of tinkering. I wouldn't call that "just fine" if I'm honest.

[Robaroni]

They recommend a specific B&D model ~30 bucks. By the time I was done with the mode and ran the learning program it had 92% efficiency. Like I said, this is no longer a toaster oven. The controller has been tweaked and refined so well that this is a really good option. You can buy it completed oven for $900 bucks and some people do that. I'm versed in metal working and electronics so I added some nice touches.

To each his own but I'm glad I went this path, He even gives you an SD card to load profiles in. I made a profile to fit Kester EP256 NC in about 5 minutes from making the profile to loading the card. I can even do long bakes for chips that are out of the original packaging. (Most times I take out a chip I need and then "Suck N' Seal" the remaining chips. but it's handy to be able to bake.

[KE5FX]

Many people seem to find the T962 quite terrible and requiring a fair bit of tinkering. I wouldn't call that "just fine" if I'm honest.

The "tinkering" is indeed necessary, and is addressed by swapping out the controller.  I used http://www.estechnical.co.uk/'s controller to save time, but there are other options, many of them significantly cheaper.

No low-cost SMT oven on the market can be described as "just fine" in its out-of-the-box state.  Which is both annoying and completely inexplicable. 

[Robaroni]

Wow, that option costs over $250 plus shipping, now add another $180 to $200 for the original machine! I only paid around $290 for the USA kit including the cost of an oven.

That display doesn't even come close and I have a lot more ability to fine tune my profile. It's a lot better than "just fine".

[KE5FX]

Wow, that option costs over $250 plus shipping, now add another $180 to $200 for the original machine! I only paid around $290 for the USA kit including the cost of an oven.

That display doesn't even come close and I have a lot more ability to fine tune my profile. It's a lot better than "just fine".

One key advantage to the ESTechnical controller is that you don't need to use the oven display at all.  It is PC-hosted over USB, which is a much better solution than anything that could possibly run on the controller itself. 

But I do agree that a well-optimized toaster oven will likely outperform the smaller T962 models.  I still have to touch up certain components on larger boards once in a while, depending on the phase of the moon.

[Robaroni]

The controller has USB connectivity, you can track progress and see a temperature graph.