Calibratory D-105 DC Precision Voltage Reference Standard

[MadTux]

I am a very capable individual. I have 1.4 million readers in 155 nations! I must remain anonymous, because I've experienced 15 murder attempts in the last 3 years, all because of what I write.

Care to share with us what you have written that garnered 1.4m readers and 15 murder attempts?
After all, it is public, right?
Perhaps you'll even gain some more readers...

It became so quiet here, no more words from Awesome14. I fear the worst.
He might have been assassinated for the 16th time. I guess it's the Volt-Nuts Mafia protecting the magic of breadboard REF102 reference.

[helius]

there are many places in a design of this sort to shave off slivers of noise, jitter, instability and drift, if you know where to look.

Ah, yes, the problem of jitter that plagues all voltage references. 

[rx8pilot]

The price has been raised to $157

[timb]

Guys, we're all missing the bigger picture. He's clearly invented a free energy device and Big Coal is trying to off him because of it.

(Actually, if he's selling a $99 reference that takes 4-8 hours to produce, he *must* have found a source of free energy. Or he's insane.)

You know what I should do? I should take his schematic and make up a real PCB for it, have a few produced and sell them for $1 less than his references. They'll be purple PCBs which we all know contain more magic.


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[TunerSandwich]

The price has been raised to $157

Thankfully the market dictates "value".  I can buy a half way decent Fluke ref (older model) for around $200 (I foolishly let one go the other day on the ole eBAY), with broad voltage ranges....proper compensation and cal features and don't have to pay 30% of the value in shipping.....

I say best of luck fetching $157 + shipping from a potential customer.....but it won't be coming from my bank account.....but again the seller doesn't care about money, because he's already set-up, in that respect....

Curious that he has all the money he needs though, and is so accomplished, but then feels the need to raise the price, so he can "help the EE community out".....give me a break 

[richiem]

@ TunerSandwich RE Fluke refs -- do you mean the 731A or B? Very nice if cleaned up and working well. I've had two 343A (I still have one) and two 332s -- an A and a D -- all of those proved to have both short and long term jumps and spikes. They all had/have the Fluke/Motorola buried zener refs; in the 332s, these are in ovens, while they are naked in the 343s. So as transfer standards, they would work, but as references, not so much. I believe the basic problems come from the chopper amp circuits, so I have a plan to build a different chopper amp for the 343 I have now.

I have had two Fluke 732As with really good experiences -- really wish I had those back now. They would hold better than 0.5ppm from a cold start to fully hot on the 10V output, but the 1V and 1.018V outs were much less good, which was maybe why I had them and some cal lab didn't. I couldn't see any reason to keep them hot all the time, though i suppose that's good long term -- the 732A also uses the Fluke/Moto buried zener ref and puts it and all the divider resistors in a foam box with 4 plate-type heaters.

[TunerSandwich]

@ TunerSandwich RE Fluke refs -- do you mean the 731A or B? Very nice if cleaned up and working well. I've had two 343A (I still have one) and two 332s -- an A and a D -- all of those proved to have both short and long term jumps and spikes. They all had/have the Fluke/Motorola buried zener refs; in the 332s, these are in ovens, while they are naked in the 343s. So as transfer standards, they would work, but as references, not so much. I believe the basic problems come from the chopper amp circuits, so I have a plan to build a different chopper amp for the 343 I have now.

I have had two Fluke 732As with really good experiences -- really wish I had those back now. They would hold better than 0.5ppm from a cold start to fully hot on the 10V output, but the 1V and 1.018V outs were much less good, which was maybe why I had them and some cal lab didn't. I couldn't see any reason to keep them hot all the time, though i suppose that's good long term -- the 732A also uses the Fluke/Moto buried zener ref and puts it and all the divider resistors in a foam box with 4 plate-type heaters.

731B.  They are obviously nothing compared to a 734A (loaded with a few 732B).....but you can get them all day on eBAY for under $200.....I let one go a couple weeks ago for $135....figured i have too many transfer standards already, but I would like to have a nice 731B to clean up, cal and refurb (battery pack etc).  I always thought they were cool (in a funky retro gear kind of way) and they were/are certainly well engineered product, with the assurance and confidence that Fluke doesn't partake in any "magic". 

So options given....$157 + shipping for Mr. "Awesome14"  "standard" or $135 + shipping for a genuine Fluke standard....which has pretty solid range capability...and doesn't "lose it's precious vacuum, hermetic, magical seal" when you open it up to re-cal or service it?

Seems like a no-brainer to me....oh and of course lets not forget the Fluke has mains power into it (no additional investment in tying up a nice PSU to let Awesome14 standard cook 24/7).  Also the brilliant capability to remove AC mains and move the unit around......and further gain confidence in your measurement, by running completely isolated from any nasty service flaws....

[Awesome14]

I have a digital image of the cal certificate for the 732A. but I found it confused eBay buyers. I had much less sales, so I took it out of the listing. You can see it if you want, though.

Hi Awesome14,

YES!  Please post the calibration certificate from Fluke here in this forum

OK.

I have some suggestions for improving your reference:

• Consider moving the TempCo adjustment to the "noise reduction" pin.  This will reduce the influence the TempCo fine-trim has on voltage fine-trim.
• Consider using better quality resistors in the divider chain [and for the trim-pot].  The resistors I have in mind are the Vishay UXB-0207 series, which you can buy at 2ppm/K.  The Vishay Precision Group 1285G trim-pot has 5ppm TCR [for the total resistance].  Texas Components, Digi-Key, and Mouser stock these, but they are more expensive in small quantities.
• I know you stated that the AD587 is not as good as the REF102, and that may be true for the REF102 in a hermetic "can" [which they don't sell anymore], but it is *not* correct for the hermetic AD587 in a ceramic package vs. the REF102 in a plastic package.  Humidity causes the plastic [epoxy] IC packages to expand, and this [in turn] causes stress on the IC's die, and this [in turn] causes a shift in the voltage output.  Inside the package, the buried Zener is probably not affected by this phenomenon very much, but the REF102 also has a current source for the Zener and a boost op-amp with gain setting resistors that *will* be affected.
• If you don't want to switch to the ceramic AD587, then consider encapsulating the entire circuit board in dual-wall PTFE/FEP heat-shrink tubing.  PTFE and FEP are from the fluorocarbon family, and the strong fluorine bonds in the material make it [chemically] very stable.  When you shrink this over the entire PC board, the PTFE has a higher melt point than the FEP, and so the FEP will melt and "fuse" to the thing that you are encapsulating.  To prevent damaging the components, place a silicone-foam weather strip on top of them and on the bottom of the board before applying the heat-shrink.  This provides a 100% stop to water vapor infusion-- [in essence, it is a "poor man's hermetic package"].  Naturally, you will have wires exiting the heat-shrink for the power [(+), (-) in], the reference [(+), (-) out], and 4 more wires to attach the external trim-pots.
• Consider using a metal enclosure inside of a plastic enclosure.  The metal enclosure would only be attached to the reference (-) output, and would act as a "guard", as well as would reduce temperature gradients.  The metal box could be placed inside of the plastic box, with wires brought out for power in, reference out, and trim-pots.  Then the inside of the plastic box is filled with closed-cell polyurethane expanding foam [you have probably seen this in your hardware store in a small can-- it is used to seal the cracks in your house from the wind].  The foam [together with the internal metal box] will act as a "thermal lag" type of system, keeping the temperature very stable inside.
• Please consider switching to Tellurium Copper binding posts on the output (+) and (-) terminals to reduce thermal EMF's.
  

I think if you did all of these things, you would notice a great improvement in stability of your reference.  I didn't mention accelerated burn-in procedures, as I am sure you are already doing that.  There is no reason why you could not raise the price of your product to cover the costs of doing all of this.

-Ken

Thank you for your suggestions. I will begin evaluating them today. They appear awesome!

[helius]

Guys, this was great fun while it lasted. However it is not OK to bait the mentally ill, so there seems little left to say on this topic.

[timb]

@Awesome14 Nah dude, God and I are cool. I met Him (Her? It?) once while on DMT. They're really more a live and let live "deity" and not into granting miracles.

Speaking of drugs, you may want to adjust the dose of your Haloperidol, as it doesn't appear to be quite working. You might want to switch to a second generation anti-psychotic; I've heard good things about Seroquel and Geodone.


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[rx8pilot]

I want you to wait 24 hours after reading this message. Then, return to this board--if you are able--and try spouting your arrogant diatribe against me words. Behold, The Lord God Almighty!   

That. Just. Happened.

[c4757p]

This dude has got to be taking the piss.

[janaf]

This is the kind of forum where people expect consistent technical explanations to how and why things work. A14 gets tangled up in way too many loose and unrelated ends.  Still, I kind of feel sorry for the him.....

[Awesome14]

Seriously?  And you are calling others arrogant? 

I'm sorry but I simply don't see where you have done anything "remarkable".....in fact I see a rather un-remarkable attempt at self marketing an average "voltage standard"....with claims that you have somehow cracked some great physics mystery....

If you keep experiencing hostility from others....throughout your life....maybe it's time to take a step back and realize the problem isn't everyone else 

P.S.  "sealed" is a total embellishment....your package is NOT hermetically sealed, nor is the inside of the enclosure a vacuum....I'm sorry, but your claims are very over the top....there is nothing remarkable or special about your device....although I think the REF102C is an excellent and inexpensive ref IC chip....+/- 2ppm (which is totally unfounded over time) is not "remarkable"

You edited my post in the quote section of your post. That is outright dishonesty and a sure sign that a person considers lying an acceptable means to accomplish their goals. your analysis is consequently judged by your willingness to deceive. I state facts. What others take away from those facts is really more a function of their view of themselves than my experiences in life. Your attitude exactly proves my what I originally stated.

Sealed is what I consider sealed. If it's sealed against moisture, it's sealed. It's my voltage standard, and I can say it's sealed. No one is required to like it. As I ascertain the eBay userrnames of the problematic subscribers to this thread, they are being systematically blocked from purchasing any additional units off of eBay. When I see that people are willing to engage outright deception as a means to malign others, I lose faith in their adherence to accepted scientific principles.

I don't edit others posts in my quotes. You do! As far as I'm concerned, nothing you write on this board can be trusted! You're an intentional deceiver. Your word is worth ZERO to me. If you don't like my invention, don't buy it. But until you have proof to back up your malicious words, you should keep them to yourself.

My standard outperforms the Geller standard by a factor of 2.5. My standard is the only standard to successfully employ tunable, passive tempco employing a heat-equalization pipe. Why didn't you think of that? So, you're just full of it. Blow it into someone else's face. I'm tired of the stink of your posts! And, I believe it is you who have done nothing remarkable, not me.

You will undergo the 24-hr test. I pray to Almighty God that you be humbled within the next 24 hours. If you suffer tragedy, that's good, because God is willing to give you the discipline He bestows on those He Loves, to save their immortal souls from eternal flames! If you do not suffer tragedy, then God is not concerned with you. He's not willing to expend the effort on you. 

I experience hostility from others because I speak the truth, without regard for who likes it. Your posts are proof of that! Truth will set you free. I am not bound by anything you say. What you see is a projection from inside you. I don't want to hurt your feelings as you have done to me, but if the truth indicts someone, it isn't truth's fault! Now you have snared yourself so securely you will never work yourself free.

I should be ashamed of a +-2ppm voltage standard that works? Nonsense! I should be proud to have introduced a revolutionary device that brings the volt within reach of the common man. If you doubt my abilities or my data, or my crude setup, rest assured that all has been supervised by an electrical engineer--an MSEE--with over 40 years experience; a lot more experience than you have, and probably more experience than anyone on this board.

Our engineer was one of the medical team who invented and perfected cardiovascular perfusion and the consequent coronary-bypass procedure! He introduced to the medical community the intra-aortic balloon pump, which even today is employed in every hospital in the nation, and probably the world. He is far more accomplished than anyone on this board. I sent him a link to this thread, but he apparently doesn't have much faith in EEVBlog, because he hasn't taken the time to even glance at it.     

I suggest you think about your words before you write them, because you're looking pretty bad right now. Outright attacking people without cause is a sort of rabies. If you don't see that I've done something remarkable, than show me another 160.00USD, 10VDC standard that can stand up to mine. Put up or shut up! I have done nothing wrong! But satan comes to steal what I have made! You should be ashamed!

[Awesome14]

Why do these guys always have to sound crazy?  Unverifiable anecdotes, pleas to authority, and meaningless technobabble just make you look defensive and uneducated.

Provide logical rationale for the design decisions that have been made and everyone is happy.

What you don't understand you term, "meaningless." I'm not going to supply the scientific principles I employ. That's insanity! But the fact that no one on this board can see what is so obvious is laughable! Everyone has utterly missed the most important feature of my device, simply because they don't understand it. But my background is raw science. So, I design from a standpoint of adapting scientific principles to solving a problem. Whereas engineers function from the application side.

Engineers can get a lot more accomplished in a small amount of time, but true innovation cannot come from what is currently known. It must be new. If I provide the rationale for my design decisions, it would reveal design features I do not wish to reveal.

[Awesome14]

I don't see how following a simple applications schematic is in any way cutting edge.....I simply don't see anything out of the ordinary (other than somewhat shoddy construction), and when confronted with that issue, the maker says "it's a big secret".  Really?  What is so special or secretive about a monolithic REF IC? 

Hell we have all seen the guts of a Fluke standard....and it's a far far far cry above and beyond the $100 ebay special....and even that isn't "remarkable" or "ground breaking"......nor is it "magic" nor does it do anything that can't be significantly bettered......it simply follows an accepted standard for producing reasonably low drift/stable transfer standards.....it's not magic, and it's not super science.....it's basic electronics engineering....given Flukes resources and engineering prowess, i highly doubt any of us here, acting independently are going to best their efforts and "revolutionize" any facet of their already acceptable design.....and it's surer than shit not going to happen at a $100 per unit cost basis.....

I found this whole topic quite amusing at first, but now it has crossed the line into complete and total insanity....conspiracy theories about death threats.....claiming mental superiority over other engineers....claims of cracking mystical boundaries of physics the rest of us are "too dumb to understand"....etc etc etc.....

this shit is just plain bonkers.....but wonderfully entertaining.....I can't wait to hear all about the death threats and "assassination attempts" 

Not worth the time, sorry.

[Awesome14]

The design was a gift to me, and I'm passing it on.

uhhhhhh, I thought you invented it. Or was it given to you as a gift? Or do you mean a gift from on high?

I inspired it from God.

[c4757p]

wat.

[Awesome14]

I am a very capable individual. I have 1.4 million readers in 155 nations! I must remain anonymous, because I've experienced 15 murder attempts in the last 3 years, all because of what I write.

Care to share with us what you have written that garnered 1.4m readers and 15 murder attempts?
After all, it is public, right?
Perhaps you'll even gain some more readers...

I made the greatest scientific discovery of all time. So, I published it. It's the holy grail: the key to immortality and absolute power; or perhaps I should phrase it: extremely extended lifespan and the ability to manipulate the physical laws of nature.  I've demonstrated that it is the means by which God conceived the Christ Child in the womb of Mary Most Holy. I've also done a thesis that the same principle when mixed with murder produces vampire fetuses.

No one has ever argued the points I have made regarding immortality, absolute power, or vampires. So, now you'll have a bit of google fodder. But I'm not tying myself to any certain published material, because I don't desire to be linked to it.

[timb]

Awesome14, temperature compensated references have been around for a long time. There's even an LT app note showing a schematic for one (Jim Williams AN47 maybe).

Speaking of Jim Williams, he's a true genius and someone I truly admire. The world lost a brilliant mind the day he died.

The fact that you won't show us what's so "obvious" that we missed is akin to a kid on the playground going "I've got something you don't, nanana boo boo!"

It leads me to believe that you're just blowing smoke.

Also, show me exactly what TunerSandwich edited in his quote.

Real scientists and engineers don't act the way you do. God, I can't imagine the way you'd react at having a paper or something peer reviewed. You'd flip the fuck out and smite them all with God's name.

You're either a troll or insane.


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[timb]

I am a very capable individual. I have 1.4 million readers in 155 nations! I must remain anonymous, because I've experienced 15 murder attempts in the last 3 years, all because of what I write.

Care to share with us what you have written that garnered 1.4m readers and 15 murder attempts?
After all, it is public, right?
Perhaps you'll even gain some more readers...

I made the greatest scientific discovery of all time. So, I published it. It's the holy grail: the key to immortality and absolute power; or perhaps I should phrase it: extremely extended lifespan and the ability to manipulate the physical laws of nature.  I've demonstrated that it is the means by which God conceived the Christ Child in the womb of Mary Most Holy. I've also done a thesis that the same principle when mixed with murder produces vampire fetuses.

No one has ever argued the points I have made regarding immortality, absolute power, or vampires. So, now you'll have a bit of google fodder. But I'm not tying myself to any certain published material, because I don't desire to be linked to it.

Yup. An insane troll.


Sent from my Smartphone

[Awesome14]

The price has been raised to $157

The members here complained, I answered.

[Awesome14]

The price has been raised to $157

Thankfully the market dictates "value".  I can buy a half way decent Fluke ref (older model) for around $200 (I foolishly let one go the other day on the ole eBAY), with broad voltage ranges....proper compensation and cal features and don't have to pay 30% of the value in shipping.....

I say best of luck fetching $157 + shipping from a potential customer.....but it won't be coming from my bank account.....but again the seller doesn't care about money, because he's already set-up, in that respect....

Curious that he has all the money he needs though, and is so accomplished, but then feels the need to raise the price, so he can "help the EE community out".....give me a break 

I was responding to the complaints. That's why I raised the price.

[Lightages]

 
Shouldn't a god given voltage standard be perfect, not 2ppm?
 

Sorry, I think you lost all credibility here with your rants and claims. Good luck with your product and your life. I sincerely hope you have a good life.

[Awesome14]

@ TunerSandwich RE Fluke refs -- do you mean the 731A or B? Very nice if cleaned up and working well. I've had two 343A (I still have one) and two 332s -- an A and a D -- all of those proved to have both short and long term jumps and spikes. They all had/have the Fluke/Motorola buried zener refs; in the 332s, these are in ovens, while they are naked in the 343s. So as transfer standards, they would work, but as references, not so much. I believe the basic problems come from the chopper amp circuits, so I have a plan to build a different chopper amp for the 343 I have now./quote] Those are +-10ppm refs. I have buyers purchasing my standard to calibrate 731s. Sheesh!

I have had two Fluke 732As with really good experiences -- really wish I had those back now. They would hold better than 0.5ppm from a cold start to fully hot on the 10V output, but the 1V and 1.018V outs were much less good, which was maybe why I had them and some cal lab didn't. I couldn't see any reason to keep them hot all the time, though i suppose that's good long term -- the 732A also uses the Fluke/Moto buried zener ref and puts it and all the divider resistors in a foam box with 4 plate-type heaters.

The 732A is not meant to be powered off, ever!

731B.  They are obviously nothing compared to a 734A (loaded with a few 732B).....but you can get them all day on eBAY for under $200.....I let one go a couple weeks ago for $135....figured i have too many transfer standards already, but I would like to have a nice 731B to clean up, cal and refurb (battery pack etc).  I always thought they were cool (in a funky retro gear kind of way) and they were/are certainly well engineered product, with the assurance and confidence that Fluke doesn't partake in any "magic". 

The older Flukes are nice for nostalgia.

So options given....$157 + shipping for Mr. "Awesome14"  "standard" or $135 + shipping for a genuine Fluke standard....which has pretty solid range capability...and doesn't "lose it's precious vacuum, hermetic, magical seal" when you open it up to re-cal or service it?

So, then you want a standard that's less accurate, 10ppm vs. 2ppm. The D-105 DC doesn't require opening of the chassis for any reason.

Seems like a no-brainer to me....oh and of course lets not forget the Fluke has mains power into it (no additional investment in tying up a nice PSU to let Awesome14 standard cook 24/7).  Also the brilliant capability to remove AC mains and move the unit around......and further gain confidence in your measurement, by running completely isolated from any nasty service flaws....

The D-105 DC will run for weeks on (2) 9V batteries, isolated from mains. But it is repeatable over power cycles, so you don't need to run it for weeks. The D-105 DC is the most accurate standard behind the Fluke 732A, 732B, Josephson effect reference, and a Daytron reference. You can't touch those for under 500.00! Let's make fair comparisons.