Author Topic: ESI SR104 leaking oil  (Read 10945 times)

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Offline Dr. Frank

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Re: ESI SR104 leaking oil
« Reply #25 on: March 30, 2018, 11:19:29 am »
Illya, very nice SR-104 standard, congrats.
I assume, there will be not much further change in resistance value, as it's already within 0.5°C from the recent calibration temperature.

Isn't the actual weight written on that yellow sticker on the vertical wall of the box?

Frank
 

Offline TiN

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Re: ESI SR104 leaking oil
« Reply #26 on: March 30, 2018, 11:26:02 am »
Dr.Frank
Ah, yes, that's sticker from seller, says 5.7kg with unknown uncertainty, for what it's worth.  :-DD

My FSL935 now going for second calibration to establish 6 month temporal stability and then will be shipped to me, so I can use it to compare with this SR104 and measure tempco of SR104 and my meters TCR more accurately, since FSL935 have 4 times less tempco then this SR104 lid passport.

I'll also have access to lab with magical 8508A-001 to try bridge transfer FSL935-SR104 in following months. That will be interesting test, if all that hype of 8508A performance worth the money  :-DMM.
« Last Edit: March 30, 2018, 11:28:07 am by TiN »
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Offline dl1640

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Re: ESI SR104 leaking oil
« Reply #27 on: March 30, 2018, 11:37:30 am »
So good. You are able to calibrate your 5700 at any time. My standard resistor is 50ppm rating wire wound type, that's the best I have.

 

Offline nikonoidTopic starter

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Re: ESI SR104 leaking oil
« Reply #28 on: March 30, 2018, 12:43:54 pm »
Illya, congratulations on a great pickup. Mine also came from Australia. 5.7kg seems consistent with newer design Sr104. Mine in older and for some reason is quite a bit heavier.

With sounds of the oil: I had to tilt it a lot, like at almost 70 degrees to hear any sloshing.

I am really interested in seeing your tempco curve for, when you get to it.
 

Offline ramon

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Re: ESI SR104 leaking oil
« Reply #29 on: March 30, 2018, 01:31:59 pm »
I don't have a scale to measure weight.  :)
Every post office in taiwan has a really nice Mettler Toledo scale   :-DD

Quote
only -1.0 ppm off the value in 2016 calibration report (10000.0011 Ohm +/-1ppm at +23.34 C well temperature).  :-+
And how do you know if it is actually your NTC that is off spec instead of SR104?
 

Offline ManateeMafia

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Re: ESI SR104 leaking oil
« Reply #30 on: March 30, 2018, 01:35:14 pm »
ramon,

Good point on NTC. TiN buy that Fluke probe and thermometer already!   :-DD
 

Offline TiN

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Re: ESI SR104 leaking oil
« Reply #31 on: March 30, 2018, 01:42:30 pm »
And how do you know if it is actually your NTC that is off spec instead of SR104?
NTC on graph is the one inside SR104 oil tank, it's part of the standard. Measured by second 3458A, so I have no doubts about that :).
Sorry it wasn't obvious that -1.0 ppm is great result, as 3458A-HFL annual spec for 10 kOhm is 8 ppm, 24 hour spec is 2.2 ppm.
Standard 3458A is even worse (granted, as specification reflect old non-updated units).
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Offline ramon

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Re: ESI SR104 leaking oil
« Reply #32 on: March 30, 2018, 02:01:00 pm »
And how do you know if it is actually your NTC that is off spec instead of SR104?
NTC on graph is the one inside SR104 oil tank, it's part of the standard. Measured by second 3458A, so I have no doubts about that :).
::)  Well, the next question is ... ( >:D ) : how can you be so sure that the NTC resistor didn't drifted at all but the 'standard' resistor indeed did?   :o
 

Offline TiN

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Re: ESI SR104 leaking oil
« Reply #33 on: March 30, 2018, 02:03:36 pm »
I don't follow, so far there is nothing wrong at all with either.  :-//
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Offline ramon

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Re: ESI SR104 leaking oil
« Reply #34 on: March 30, 2018, 03:03:48 pm »
The man with two resistors problem.

Which one is the reference? It is the NTC resistor, and then the 10K 'standard' drifted -1 ppm?
Or it is the 10K standard the reference resistor and then it is the NTC resistor which has drifted?

Or did actually both 10K and NTC resistors drifted? And then, which one is expected to drift more?
In other words ... Is that ESI SR104 a big case for an NTC resistor worth US $9,000 plus a 10K 'standard' resistor besides given as gift. Or the other way around?

You will definitely need that Fluke probe and thermometer !  :-DD
 

Offline TiN

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Re: ESI SR104 leaking oil
« Reply #35 on: March 30, 2018, 06:05:00 pm »
3458A alone is not suitable instrument to establish a drift of primary resistance standard like ESI SR104.
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Offline stijena1973

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Re: ESI SR104 leaking oil
« Reply #36 on: January 03, 2020, 02:08:21 pm »
Thank you very much everybody for your input here.

Just to be sure on performance I had the standard resistor checked and calibrated with tempco (attached).

If you consider the 1.69ppm change in resistance value at NIST, this resistor drifted 4.86ppm @23C in 50 years!

This accounts for 0.097ppm per year.

What is also interesting is that shape of the temperature compensation curve changed quite a bit from what it was 50 years ago. I am very interested if anyone else has similar comparison of how alpha and beta temperature coefficient could change.

Also attached is the chart comparing original curve and newly measures one. Blue is the original from the box. Red is corrected for NIST 1990 change (moved down by 1.69). Green is newly measured.

Can anyone comment if the change in tempco curve shape is typical or not? Thanks.


From the photo, it seems that linear coefficient alpha is increased for about +0.2ppm/C, almost linearly. It can be a result of increase of the resistance of copper interconnection wires.
Copper has +3900 ppm/C alpha. Fraction of the ohm is sufficient to change both absolute value and alpha.
 I see that absolute resistance is also up, so that can be explanation.
 


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