Author Topic: first lm399 10v reference  (Read 8861 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Svgeesus

  • Regular Contributor
  • *
  • Posts: 74
  • Country: us
Re: first lm399 10v reference
« Reply #25 on: May 14, 2018, 04:58:02 pm »
If you really want to use a trimmer (which I would avoid, see comment from TIN above), the next step is to replace one resistor by another resistor and a trimmer in series.

A series trimmer requires a very low value (the imbalance between a pair of 10k 0.01% resistors is just 1 ohm), which has a looser tolerance and depends more on the end-stop resistance. From what I have learned reading the Metrology section, a high value parallel trimmer is a much better arrangement.

I have seen the wirewound trimmers from Bourns recommended, but from the datasheet the bulk metal foil Vishay ones seem superior.
 

Offline cellularmitosis

  • Supporter
  • ****
  • Posts: 1111
  • Country: us
Re: first lm399 10v reference
« Reply #26 on: May 14, 2018, 06:57:05 pm »
If you really want to use a trimmer (which I would avoid, see comment from TIN above), the next step is to replace one resistor by another resistor and a trimmer in series.

A series trimmer requires a very low value (the imbalance between a pair of 10k 0.01% resistors is just 1 ohm), which has a looser tolerance and depends more on the end-stop resistance. From what I have learned reading the Metrology section, a high value parallel trimmer is a much better arrangement.

I have seen the wirewound trimmers from Bourns recommended, but from the datasheet the bulk metal foil Vishay ones seem superior.

Here's a scheme used to trim a resistance standard (from https://www.eevblog.com/forum/metrology/teardown-standard-resistors/msg891673/#msg891673 ).
LTZs: KX FX MX CX PX Frank A9 QX
 
The following users thanked this post: kj7e, Svgeesus

Offline kj7e

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 911
  • Country: us
  • Damon Stewart
Re: first lm399 10v reference
« Reply #27 on: May 14, 2018, 08:04:01 pm »
The scheme above is very similar to what I used on my 7 -> 10v buffer.  The TC the ~20 Ohm trimmer section is attenuated by nearly 500 times and this gives a very precise narrow band of adjustment  19.052-19.719.
 

Offline try

  • Regular Contributor
  • *
  • Posts: 112
  • Country: de
  • Metrology from waste
Re: first lm399 10v reference
« Reply #28 on: May 14, 2018, 09:03:36 pm »
Hello Svgeesus,

sorry I did not express this precisely enough:

Quote
It's no rocket science to shunt one leg and approach the target output voltage.

If you really want to use a trimmer (which I would avoid, see comment from TIN above), the next step is to replace one resistor by another resistor and a trimmer in series.

Regards
try

Added: excel screenshot

You calculate yourself a divider (R1 and R2 in series). Next thing is to shunt one leg of the divider by installing R3.
Depending on the intended precision you could place other bigger resistors R3', R3'' ... in parallel to R3.
You could as well extend R3 by putting another resistor R4 in series to R3, maybe another.
Countless variations are possible.

At some point you exchange comfort against stability by replacing any resistor (neither R1 nor R2) in your resistor by a smaller resistor and a trimmer in line to each other.

Look at the scheme from cellularmitosis:
Imagine R3 was 1k Ohm before. Now it has been replaced by 400 Ohm and a trimmer with 1 k Ohm.
Around trimmer mid point (500 Ohm) you roughly hit the 1k (~900)

Tighter version:
Make R3 910 Ohm (1k||10k) and use a trimmer rated 200 Ohm.





« Last Edit: May 14, 2018, 09:14:45 pm by try »
 

Offline Svgeesus

  • Regular Contributor
  • *
  • Posts: 74
  • Country: us
Re: first lm399 10v reference
« Reply #29 on: May 14, 2018, 11:55:35 pm »
Thanks, sorry to have missed your point before. I see what you mean and understand the approach.

I do need some way to apply small amounts of trim over the coming years, after initial setup.
 

Offline niner_007Topic starter

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 256
  • Country: us
Re: first lm399 10v reference
« Reply #30 on: May 18, 2018, 08:33:31 am »
I'm working on a new cutout for the reference :)
 

Offline niner_007Topic starter

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 256
  • Country: us
Re: first lm399 10v reference
« Reply #31 on: May 20, 2018, 08:31:42 am »
Hello

I have made some updates. For now, I won't focus on getting an accurate 10.00000V, but rather a stable output. I'm using the 8 pin version of LTC2057, I'm unsure about this, there's not enough space for guard rings around the IN+ and IN- opamp inputs, as indicated in the datasheet.
« Last Edit: May 20, 2018, 08:35:53 am by niner_007 »
 

Offline niner_007Topic starter

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 256
  • Country: us
Re: first lm399 10v reference
« Reply #32 on: May 20, 2018, 11:49:53 am »
with the guard traces
 

Offline niner_007Topic starter

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 256
  • Country: us
Re: first lm399 10v reference
« Reply #33 on: July 03, 2018, 08:56:25 am »
here is another update, back to LT1001, added bypass capacitors (ceramic for input and heater; film for zener output, amp supply, and feedback loop), now using a precision resistor network, with 0.5ppm tracking, for the feedback loop
« Last Edit: July 03, 2018, 08:59:16 am by niner_007 »
 

Offline TiN

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 4543
  • Country: ua
    • xDevs.com
Re: first lm399 10v reference
« Reply #34 on: July 03, 2018, 10:05:48 am »
I'd think you have more progress if you actually build the circuit and play with it ;).
YouTube | Metrology IRC Chat room | Let's share T&M documentation? Upload! No upload limits for firmwares, photos, files.
 
The following users thanked this post: e61_phil


Share me

Digg  Facebook  SlashDot  Delicious  Technorati  Twitter  Google  Yahoo
Smf