Author Topic: Is there toxic solder in an ESI SR1010?  (Read 12061 times)

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Offline CalMachine

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Re: Is there toxic solder in an ESI SR1010?
« Reply #25 on: April 09, 2017, 02:21:08 pm »
Sorry, there is schematic above the picture. They use the shorting bars and a compensation network. In that circuit there is no addionational 50µR shown. Very interesting..

http://www.ietlabs.com/esi-sr1010-resistance-transfer-standard.html

Check out the accessories tab.
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Offline manganin

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Re: Is there toxic solder in an ESI SR1010?
« Reply #26 on: April 27, 2017, 01:18:47 pm »
If you need a 1 kohm SR-1010, I have a duplicate. Late version, blue body / black face. Please don't ruin the 10 ohm unit.

Not available anymore. Posted today to e61_phil (Germany).

Before shipping I checked the first ten sections in series (binding posts A0/B0 --- A10/B10) against a calibrated SR104.

-11,3 ppm 02/1995 (old cal certificate)

and 22 years later:

-13,5 ppm 04/2017

Good chances that in addition to a ratio device, it can serve as a decent 10 kohm standard as well.

 
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Offline dacman

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Re: Is there toxic solder in an ESI SR1010?
« Reply #27 on: April 27, 2017, 11:51:03 pm »
The shorting bars have the sense terminals, not the current terminals, therefore they do not add (as much) to the resistance.

The PC101 Parallel Compensation Network is for paralleling ten resistors and it's also where the current is applied.  It plugs into the center binding posts.

The SPC102 Series Parallel Compensation Network is for 3R || 3R || 3R, and also has the current terminals.

100:1 Parallel spec is 1 PPM + 0.1 uOhm (or 2 PPM at 0.1 Ohm).
10:1 Series Parallel spec is 1 PPM + 1 uOhm.

There are no shorting bars nor compensation networks for using 10 resistors in series.
« Last Edit: April 28, 2017, 12:49:41 am by dacman »
 

Offline e61_philTopic starter

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Re: Is there toxic solder in an ESI SR1010?
« Reply #28 on: April 28, 2017, 10:18:53 am »
The shorting bars have the sense terminals, not the current terminals, therefore they do not add (as much) to the resistance.

They add resistance due to the plugs. This is also described in the SR1010 manual.

The PC101 Parallel Compensation Network is for paralleling ten resistors and it's also where the current is applied.  It plugs into the center binding posts.

This should compensate for these errors. Does anyone know what's inside the PC-101?
 

Offline manganin

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Re: Is there toxic solder in an ESI SR1010?
« Reply #29 on: April 28, 2017, 10:55:58 am »
Does anyone know what's inside the PC-101?

0,2 ohm 500 ppm resistors which connect in series with the contact resistance to make sure that it doesn't affect the current distribution.

 

Offline mc172

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Re: Is there toxic solder in an ESI SR1010?
« Reply #30 on: April 28, 2017, 11:34:37 am »
If a few people want some of these shorting bars I could make some for forum members on my manual milling machine. How many people are interested? If more than say five people want a set I'm willing to do it.
 
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Offline e61_philTopic starter

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Re: Is there toxic solder in an ESI SR1010?
« Reply #31 on: April 28, 2017, 03:50:20 pm »
Does anyone know what's inside the PC-101?

0,2 ohm 500 ppm resistors which connect in series with the contact resistance to make sure that it doesn't affect the current distribution.

Thanks! Now, I understand how it works.


If a few people want some of these shorting bars I could make some for forum members on my manual milling machine. How many people are interested? If more than say five people want a set I'm willing to do it.

Depends on costs and material/finish.

I played around with LTSpice and the compensation resistors seems not very crucial, but the contact to the shorting bars seems to be very crucial. 100µR per contact leads to a 100:1 error of 1,5ppm for 10R/Step
 
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Offline mc172

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Re: Is there toxic solder in an ESI SR1010?
« Reply #32 on: April 28, 2017, 10:55:34 pm »
I can make it out of whatever you want, within reason. Stainless steel, brass, copper, no problem.

I'd prefer to not have to send it to a plating shop but me what you want and I'll suggest how much it'll cost. I doubt it'll be more than £200 for a set, though, unless the thickness gets to 6 mm or more. The drawing MisterDiodes linked to suggests 2 mm thickness. I don't actually know anything about the ESI SR1010 so 6 mm might be way too thick, I have no idea.
 

Offline dacman

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Re: Is there toxic solder in an ESI SR1010?
« Reply #33 on: April 28, 2017, 11:10:06 pm »
The shorting bars do connect the parallel resistors which adds resistance, but the 100 uR spec is from end to end.  (Gold tends to make a very good connection, and I clean the connections with a cotton swab with a very little bit of mineral oil to clean off any grit and to keep from scraping up the gold.)
 

Offline CalMachine

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Re: Is there toxic solder in an ESI SR1010?
« Reply #34 on: April 28, 2017, 11:21:48 pm »
If a few people want some of these shorting bars I could make some for forum members on my manual milling machine. How many people are interested? If more than say five people want a set I'm willing to do it.

I would be interested in a set
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Offline babysitter

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Re: Is there toxic solder in an ESI SR1010?
« Reply #35 on: April 29, 2017, 08:42:22 am »
I aquired some 2mm copper sheet from egay, and the local locksmith was able to cut it according to a eagle drawing. Still missing connectors (I used the existing 4mm ones of the SR1010) and gold plating. Will post the eagle board drawing sometime in the next... 2 years.


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Offline e61_philTopic starter

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Re: Is there toxic solder in an ESI SR1010?
« Reply #36 on: April 29, 2017, 08:49:10 am »
I aquired some 2mm copper sheet from egay, and the local locksmith was able to cut it according to a eagle drawing. Still missing connectors (I used the existing 4mm ones of the SR1010) and gold plating. Will post the eagle board drawing sometime in the next... 2 years.

Did you measure the resistance between two connected sockets? For the SR1010-10Ohm/Step it should be really low (<=2*50µR). And without the PC-101 you will get about 20ppm of error for a 100:1 transfer, even with below 50µR contact resistance. Would be really interesting if gold plating is needed.
 

Offline manganin

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Re: Is there toxic solder in an ESI SR1010?
« Reply #37 on: April 29, 2017, 10:21:00 am »

I have succesfully used 30x3 flat copper bar. Thicker than that will eventually ruin the binding post threads.

Rigid enough and provides lower resistance than the original. Used in power bus bars and therefore easily available.

From the home machinist point of view the 1:100 only type is much easier make: only six slots 7,0 diameter and 8,0 deep measured from the edge.

« Last Edit: April 29, 2017, 10:29:41 am by manganin »
 
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Offline e61_philTopic starter

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Re: Is there toxic solder in an ESI SR1010?
« Reply #38 on: April 29, 2017, 10:35:18 am »
Isn't it possible to drill holes in the copper bar only? Not very comfortable to unscrew every binding post, but it will be very easy to build at home.
 

Offline ap

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Re: Is there toxic solder in an ESI SR1010?
« Reply #39 on: April 29, 2017, 11:58:39 am »
Sure, you could just drill, much easier. However, you still need the gold plating. And it needs to be relatively thick too, to avoid abrasion.
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Offline manganin

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Re: Is there toxic solder in an ESI SR1010?
« Reply #40 on: April 29, 2017, 01:49:01 pm »
Isn't it possible to drill holes in the copper bar only? Not very comfortable to unscrew every binding post, but it will be very easy to build at home.

Six holes in copper in a straight line evenly spaced may sound easy. Until you start to drill.

The manufacturing tolerance defines the contact area of each connection.

Machine with a coordinate table is a must.

 

Offline quarks

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Re: Is there toxic solder in an ESI SR1010?
« Reply #41 on: May 01, 2017, 09:29:47 am »
just in case anyone needs this information:

original shorting bar SB 103 has 1.7mm thickness

« Last Edit: May 01, 2017, 09:36:36 am by quarks »
 
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Offline CalMachine

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Re: Is there toxic solder in an ESI SR1010?
« Reply #42 on: May 21, 2017, 01:20:37 am »
just in case anyone needs this information:

original shorting bar SB 103 has 1.7mm thickness



I'm curious...  does anyone know the thickness of the gold plating used for these type of connections?  For some reason in the back of my memory bank, I've got 0.15 microns thickness rolling around.  I'm trying to get a set of these shorting bars made ASAP and could use as much info as possible.
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Offline Edwin G. Pettis

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Re: Is there toxic solder in an ESI SR1010?
« Reply #43 on: May 21, 2017, 04:24:00 am »
Back in the good old days, the standard gold plating was 50 microinches, in some instances it would be specified thicker but 50 was the 'gold standard' <grinning>.
 
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Offline CalMachine

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Re: Is there toxic solder in an ESI SR1010?
« Reply #44 on: May 21, 2017, 01:29:21 pm »
Back in the good old days, the standard gold plating was 50 microinches, in some instances it would be specified thicker but 50 was the 'gold standard' <grinning>.

And that is gold plated directly onto the copper?  Or does there require an intermediate layer?
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Offline Andreas

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Re: Is there toxic solder in an ESI SR1010?
« Reply #45 on: May 21, 2017, 02:06:42 pm »
Hello,

You will need a Ni plating first on copper to apply Au.

With best regards

Andreas
 
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Offline CalMachine

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Re: Is there toxic solder in an ESI SR1010?
« Reply #46 on: May 21, 2017, 02:19:06 pm »
Hello,

You will need a Ni plating first on copper to apply Au.

With best regards

Andreas

http://www.lowthermal.com/pdf/2758-series-data.pdf,  How did they get away with not using nickel in these?  I would not like to introduce nickel, if possible.  Would that even matter here?  Is there nickel in gold plating on the bindings that ESI used?
« Last Edit: May 21, 2017, 02:20:49 pm by CalMachine »
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Offline Andreas

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Re: Is there toxic solder in an ESI SR1010?
« Reply #47 on: May 21, 2017, 02:22:09 pm »
Hello,

Thats the usual procedure for durable gold layers on copper contacts.
Otherwise the gold layer will not last long.

with best regards

Andreas
 
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Offline Robert763

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Re: Is there toxic solder in an ESI SR1010?
« Reply #48 on: June 04, 2017, 10:12:50 pm »
Hi,
I'd be interested in  pair of shorting bars.
I really miss having access to the prototype machine shop at my last employer. My current employer has lots of machines but as a designer I'm not allowed to use a pillar drill for work, never mind a mill for a homer https://www.eevblog.com/forum/Smileys/default/sad.gif

I 'm a new owner of a SR1010-100 (early ESI model). Picked it up today at the Spalding radio rally allong with two GR 1409-U standard capacitors (0.2uF 0.05%). I saw the first capacitor and the seller said " I've a couple of other bits like that" and produced the second capacitor and the SR1010. I asked how much and tried not to show two much surprise when he said £3  each for the capacitors and £15 for the SR1010 https://www.eevblog.com/forum/Smileys/default/smiley.gif

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Offline 0.01C

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Re: Is there toxic solder in an ESI SR1010?
« Reply #49 on: June 05, 2017, 03:30:44 am »
Hi,
I'd be interested in  pair of shorting bars.
I really miss having access to the prototype machine shop at my last employer. My current employer has lots of machines but as a designer I'm not allowed to use a pillar drill for work, never mind a mill for a homer https://www.eevblog.com/forum/Smileys/default/sad.gif

I 'm a new owner of a SR1010-100 (early ESI model). Picked it up today at the Spalding radio rally allong with two GR 1409-U standard capacitors (0.2uF 0.05%). I saw the first capacitor and the seller said " I've a couple of other bits like that" and produced the second capacitor and the SR1010. I asked how much and tried not to show two much surprise when he said £3  each for the capacitors and £15 for the SR1010 https://www.eevblog.com/forum/Smileys/default/smiley.gif

G8RPI.

 :-+£15 for a SR1010,very good price  :-+
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