Author Topic: Low-thermal EMF Solder (Read 11819 times)

BG5TOX · « **on:** February 25, 2018, 06:13:15 am »

Is anyone need low-thermal EMF solder ?

I am ready to customize a batch of solder which mentioned in LT AN-86 ? alloy Cd60Sn40. (TOXIC ?ow-thermal EMF)

The minimum order quantity is 20kg (factory) , minimum package is 500g (person), 0.8 or 1mm , flux inside.

No actual price at this time, but I promise it is fine.

zhtoor · « **Reply #1 on:** February 25, 2018, 07:20:27 am »

hello,

what would be the minimum order quantity, price and shipment cost to pakistan?

regards.

-zia

zhtoor · « **Reply #2 on:** February 25, 2018, 07:23:12 am »

hello,

and the flux should be ROSIN (COLOPHONY) ONLY !

regards.

-zia

BG5TOX · « **Reply #3 on:** February 25, 2018, 07:34:48 am »

for person MOQ=500g

The price is not yet confirmed, I'll update at first time.

Shipping to Pakistan no problem,from China.

yeah, flux is rosin.

Andreas · « **Reply #4 on:** February 25, 2018, 08:03:14 am »

Quote from: BG5TOX on February 25, 2018, 06:13:15 am

Is anyone need low-thermal EMF solder ?

Hello,

you should be aware that Cd is highly toxic.
And even with normal soldering temperatures (which are significantly lower than usual solder)
there are toxic damps. (so dont breathe and use only with exhaustion).

On the other side: if you are using components with hermetically package (aka LTZ1000)
a low thermal solder for copper/copper connections will be useless
since copper/KOVAR has around 40uV/K.

with best regards

Andreas

Simon · « **Reply #5 on:** February 25, 2018, 08:15:06 am »

My my what a mess. Thank you to the original scammer for accidentally reporting the post whilst trying to reply. Posted in the wrong section for starters as far as I'm concerned the product is a complete and utter scam. I've never heard of solder made with cadmium which is a banned substance under the RoHS compliance regulations. Further most metals exhibit the same properties so I can't see how cadmium actually goes negative when the other metal goes positive.

BradC · « **Reply #6 on:** February 25, 2018, 09:30:22 am »

Deleted because I was out of line.

Simon · « **Reply #7 on:** February 25, 2018, 09:53:15 am »

In response to the post you deleted:

"I'm speechless. I totally get that you don't understand Seebeck coeficients, but it really warranted a ban?"

Now granted I don't understand seebeck coefficients and to be honest I've never heard of solder that reduces EMC problems. If you are looking at your solder then it means you have components generating RFI and perhaps you need to do something about those never mind the solder. Secondly cadmium is as pointed out above a toxic substance so I can't really see how this solder being offered is even legal. Never mind the fact that it sounds pretty unsafe due to the toxicity of the substance. I'm not allowed to use connectors that have the mere whisper of cadmium on them to give them green colour. I don't think solder that has cadmium as a major component is legal in most countries. Thirdly it is a first post from a new user directly advertising something in a completely wrong section. So yes I banned them as being just another spammer if anything. If this stuff is really genuine I'm sure there are other places it can be bought from we don't need some dodgy guy in China advertising it in the wrong section of the forum as his sole purpose for joining.

Simon · « **Reply #8 on:** February 25, 2018, 09:53:38 am »

I was going to lock the thread but as somebody else replied as I was typing my closing post decided to leave it open.

Gyro · « **Reply #9 on:** February 25, 2018, 10:29:04 am »

Quote from: Simon on February 25, 2018, 09:53:15 am

...
Now granted I don't understand seebeck coefficients and to be honest I've never heard of solder that reduces EMC problems. If you are looking at your solder then it means you have components generating RFI and perhaps you need to do something about those never mind the solder. Secondly cadmium is as pointed out above a toxic substance so I can't really see how this solder being offered is even legal. Never mind the fact that it sounds pretty unsafe due to the toxicity of the substance.
...

Just to point out that the OP is referring to "Low thermal EMF", not 'low EMC'.

No argument with the Cadmium content, it is toxic!

Simon · « **Reply #10 on:** February 25, 2018, 10:50:32 am »

I see that would make sense. Maybe miss read in my haste to get to the bottom of what was going on. Yes I am aware that temperature causes things to vibrate and create voltages of their own. Hence diodes can be used as temperature sensors. Anyway yes I left the discussion open as it looked like it might become interesting but the spammer is banned.

BradC · « **Reply #11 on:** February 25, 2018, 10:59:23 am »

Quote from: Gyro on February 25, 2018, 10:29:04 am

No argument with the Cadmium content, it is toxic!

So is lead, mercury and a host of other metals that the EU doesn't want you to play with. That doesn't make them any less useful however. It simply means you need to be a grown-up and mitigate the risks.

I'd be interested in a roll of Cd alloy solder, just like I have some 45% silver / Cd "hard solder". Sometimes (very, very rarely) it's the right tool for the job. You use the PPE, you take the precautions and like tradesmen have for decades, you use the product and don't die from it.

Heck, I'd love to get my hands on some high boiling point CFC that they still manufacture in third world countries. When you need a super high voltage insulator it's the ducks nuts. I can import solder, but I'd be hung, drawn and quartered if I tried to import a can of R11. Doesn't mean it's not useful though.

Simon · « **Reply #12 on:** February 25, 2018, 12:00:30 pm »

I never said it would not be useful. Personally I don't agree with the ban on lead. The ban on lead is basically because people do not follow the recycling guidelines set out by the same people that don't want lead used. If everything was properly recycled the lead would be recovered and it is a far easier material to work with.

ogden · « **Reply #13 on:** February 25, 2018, 12:43:23 pm »

Yes, he had to post into buy/sell/wanted and maybe here just refer to that post. Anyway in my opinion banning was overreaction.

Ni-Cd batteries contain Cd as well, some color pigments too, safety sheet of those are full of warnings. Original poster mentioned toxicity two times - in message and in graph attached. Daily intake of Cd in Europe is 8 to 30ug, so nobody will poison anybody with soldering sub-ppm instrument in properly ventilated area. Solder joint is not able to release enough metal to be health concern.

Simon · « **Reply #14 on:** February 25, 2018, 01:11:10 pm »

Indeed as I said connectors that I use at work can be bought with cadmium based pigment plating but a lot of customers refuse to have them now because they are wanting to improve their environmental regulations adherence. Yes batteries used to have cadmium but the end user never came into contact with that cadmium and the batteries were supposed to be disposed of properly.

People who register on this forum and immediately start trying to sell stuff do get banned. Those are our rules. Even if you are to post in the buy and sell section the expectation is that you are a genuine forum member with some posting history. Rocking up and selling your wares is not allowed hence he is banned as per the rules.

xuda · « **Reply #15 on:** February 25, 2018, 02:14:18 pm »

Okay,Simon, I don't want to argue,respect your decision, you have the right to ban any person you think irregularities.

I am not a businessman, I am a serious semiconductor engineer. Just wanna try this solder in several experiment to get test data.
This solder wire is not recommended for general applications? I just want to help people who really need it. (Anyway, you never have to use. It's so rare,especially the wire shape. Most people who need it are in this section)
This material is not environmentally friendly, but it is not illegal. This thread is just a order aggregation thread~~(but NOW OVER)

I saw disdain for the Chinese in your lines and I am not happy about it. so disappointed~

I hope it is a misunderstanding,thank you!

BG5TOX(XuDa)

Simon · « **Reply #16 on:** February 25, 2018, 02:26:38 pm »

My comment was not about the Chinese it was about your approach and we do get some of our worst spammers from Asia in general. The materials used in products in Europe are regulated by the CE regulations which are effectively the law. I am aware that there are obviously exemptions for example solder with lead can still be used in military and other specialist applications but you will be shot if you are found making something with lead solder in a consumer product. Although I have no idea how anybody would find out that you would struggle to find a pick and place assembly-line that will use lead solder for you it would be a specific request that would cost you as they would then have to clean the whole line down again to use non-leaded solder.

It would help if you are little more upfront about the situation and what you are trying to achieve. I would have thought that people working in sectors that warrant cadmium which makes up 60% what you are offering so it is not like it's just a bit of pigment on the connectors I have lying in my drawer would have access to this sort of solder as per regulations. I don't know how toxic it is that when somebody says toxic I assume it is unsafe to handle in such concentrations which is exactly what you do with solder wire so it's not the sort of thing I would expect to be sold off-the-shelf to just anybody. Yes there is a degree of we should not have a nanny state but if you do not know what you are handling you can easily mishandle dangerous products.

I expect that like lead cadmium is not allowed in most products because we can't be trusted to dispose of them properly or even trust the disposal mechanisms we do have. Granted my local tip is now called a recycling centre they send plenty of things to landfill that could be recycled and the only thing that stops them sending anything to landfill is the law. When I lived in Italy and I am sure it still goes on I used to run my hobby off of the things I would find dumped in the countryside. They were regular spots where people would go and fly tip which I knew of and would visit every few months to see if any goodies had turned up.

xuda · « **Reply #17 on:** February 25, 2018, 02:31:50 pm »

LTC AN-86 APPPENDIX-J Page.47
http://cds.linear.com/docs/en/application-note/an86f.pdf

Kleinstein · « **Reply #18 on:** February 25, 2018, 02:34:24 pm »

Cadmum is considered to be quite toxic. For this reason Cd containing rechargeable cells get phased out in the EU. So no more new cells.
There are some restrictions on selling toxic chemical in the EU, I don't know the details, but it could be illegal to sell without proper documentation.

For most applications there is no need for an extra low EMF solder. Usually the temperature difference over the solder joint is very small. So unless one deals with DC in the low nV range there is no real need for Cd based solder. Regular Pb based solder is not that bad either and it is still quite common and easy to get and you still have to expect Pb, but you don't have to expect Cd without special warnings.

zhtoor · « **Reply #19 on:** February 25, 2018, 02:41:33 pm »

Quote from: xuda on February 25, 2018, 02:14:18 pm

Okay,Simon, I don't want to argue,respect your decision, you have the right to ban any person you think irregularities.

I am not a businessman, I am a serious semiconductor engineer. Just wanna try this solder in several experiment to get test data.
This solder wire is not recommended for general applications? I just want to help people who really need it. (Anyway, you never have to use. It's so rare,especially the wire shape. Most people who need it are in this section)
This material is not environmentally friendly, but it is not illegal. This thread is just a order aggregation thread~~(but NOW OVER)

I saw disdain for the Chinese in your lines and I am not happy about it. so disappointed~

I hope it is a misunderstanding,thank you!

BG5TOX(XuDa)

hello,

i second that.

if the "Global Moderator"'s rules required to ban this user, it could have been done in a (much more) civilized manner.

regards.

-zia

Simon · « **Reply #20 on:** February 25, 2018, 02:42:50 pm »

Yes solder is readily available although I believe the rules are special sectors only like military or hobby work. Basically they have tried to remove it from mass produced consumer goods which will end up in landfill. Yes I would expect that in Europe you would need some sort of licence to buy cadmium in such concentration. I have never seen cadmium solder for sale and like I said I have a hard time just getting customers to use connectors which have cadmium pigment.

Simon · « **Reply #21 on:** February 25, 2018, 02:45:11 pm »

Quote from: zhtoor on February 25, 2018, 02:41:33 pm

Quote from: xuda on February 25, 2018, 02:14:18 pm
Okay,Simon, I don't want to argue,respect your decision, you have the right to ban any person you think irregularities.

I am not a businessman, I am a serious semiconductor engineer. Just wanna try this solder in several experiment to get test data.
This solder wire is not recommended for general applications? I just want to help people who really need it. (Anyway, you never have to use. It's so rare,especially the wire shape. Most people who need it are in this section)
This material is not environmentally friendly, but it is not illegal. This thread is just a order aggregation thread~~(but NOW OVER)

I saw disdain for the Chinese in your lines and I am not happy about it. so disappointed~

I hope it is a misunderstanding,thank you!

BG5TOX(XuDa)

hello,

i second that.

if the "Global Moderator"'s rules required to ban this user, it could have been done in a (much more) civilized manner.

regards.

-zia

They are not the global Moderator's rules they are the admins rules i.e. Dave. I'm not quite sure what was uncivilised about the banning. If I deem a poster to be breaking the rules or otherwise disrupting the forum I simply click ban on their profile there is no civilised or uncivilised way of doing it. I click ban on their profile. I could have locked the topic and that would be the end of that but because I didn't want to be uncivilised I left it open for discussion and I have not banned the returned original poster and in allowing the discussion to continue. How more civil due want me to be? I don't know what the rules in China are about such substances but in the EU you can't just sell this stuff over-the-counter which is what made the original post look even more dodgy.

zhtoor · « **Reply #22 on:** February 25, 2018, 02:54:05 pm »

lets see if you can BAN these:-

http://uk.farnell.com/search?st=cwt%20solder%20sleeve

do look into the composition of these solder joint sleeves.

as far as being civilized goes, here is a sample:-

"Dear Sir,

you are not allowed to post a sales pitch for any product on your first post.
this requires immediate ban of the poster as per the forum's rules.

regards.

Simon"

-zia

Simon · « **Reply #23 on:** February 25, 2018, 03:02:20 pm »

Quote from: zhtoor on February 25, 2018, 02:54:05 pm

lets see if you can BAN these:-

http://uk.farnell.com/search?st=cwt%20solder%20sleeve

do look into the composition of these solder joint sleeves.

So what about their composition then? There is a difference between products that require special handling and knowledge and products that contain a quantity of substance that in some situations is not acceptable to use. For example the raychem 44 wire that I use on military wiring looms. Wonderful stuff just don't be near it if it smoulders because it contains halogens. It's not a band wire type but it is for particular uses only. If I was making something for a train and told them that I wanted to use raychem in 44 they would probably want to hang draw and quarter me because the rules of such industry dictate that halogens must be limited and preferably not used.

I once worked on a project where my boss wanted to put a nice acrylic panel on the unit. The customer nearly hit the roof when he suggested it. Acrylic is not banned but it is not acceptable for use in certain circumstances.

zhtoor · « **Reply #24 on:** February 25, 2018, 03:06:42 pm »

Quote from: Simon on February 25, 2018, 03:02:20 pm

So what about their composition then?

it contains 18% CADMIUM ! (the CWT series) and is being sold in UK - off the shelf !!!

regards.

-zia

Simon · « **Reply #25 on:** February 25, 2018, 03:10:55 pm »

What part of it contained cadmium? It's not by chance shielded within a sheath is it? As I said above it's not necessarily just the substance it's the form in which it is sold. Can you find me 60% cadmium solder wire for sale in the UK? No I thought not. And I did not see any mention of cadmium in the one product from your list that I looked at.

zhtoor · « **Reply #26 on:** February 25, 2018, 03:20:49 pm »

so it is legal to sell the cadmium solder under a sheath.
why did'nt you say so?
i think BG5TOX(xuda) should keep that in mind

and by the way, do READ the datasheet in DETAIL.

regards.

-zia

Simon · « **Reply #27 on:** February 25, 2018, 03:27:06 pm »

I'm not an expert in materials and what is and is not allowed in the EU and hopefully remains the rules after the UK leaves the EU so that we have full compatibility with how we deal with such substances. I don't know if cadmium solder under a heat shrink sheath is legal or not. If it is being sold by farnell I presume it is and if TE are making it I am sure they have done their homework as one of if not the largest successful manufacturer in the world of such items (having bought every single piece of competition off of the market).

As I explained its about concentration and handling. The parts you linked to are designed in such a way that the user would not come into contact with the solder. As it is contact with a toxic product that causes the problem then I would assume that in this usage case it is safe to handle. However if you are handling directly wire which is 60% made of cadmium I would expect that the regulations take quite a different view on that. It's the same with anything. Anything can be used for good or bad and many things that if used very badly or with a total lack of knowledge are still useful and required but do require safe handling.

I know that some countries do not have the same sort of rules as the EU and to a degree that is probably why it is cheaper to produce things in those countries. However Europe has opted not to make its own back yard a toxic waste dump or to have workers continually handling toxic materials where it is not strictly necessary.

If you want to talk about cadmium solder then talk about it but all you are doing is arguing with me and derailing the thread you hold so dear.

zhtoor · « **Reply #28 on:** February 25, 2018, 03:32:15 pm »

Quote from: Simon on February 25, 2018, 03:27:06 pm

I'm not an expert in materials and what is and is not allowed in the EU and hopefully remains the rules after the UK leaves the EU so that we have full compatibility with how we deal with such substances. I don't know if cadmium solder under a heat shrink sheath is legal or not. If it is being sold by farnell I presume it is and if TE are making it I am sure they have done their homework as one of if not the largest successful manufacturer in the world of such items (having bought every single piece of competition off of the market).

As I explained its about concentration and handling. The parts you linked to are designed in such a way that the user would not come into contact with the solder. As it is contact with a toxic product that causes the problem then I would assume that in this usage case it is safe to handle. However if you are handling directly wire which is 60% made of cadmium I would expect that the regulations take quite a different view on that. It's the same with anything. Anything can be used for good or bad and many things that if used very badly or with a total lack of knowledge are still useful and required but do require safe handling.

I know that some countries do not have the same sort of rules as the EU and to a degree that is probably why it is cheaper to produce things in those countries. However Europe has opted not to make its own back yard a toxic waste dump or to have workers continually handling toxic materials where it is not strictly necessary.

If you want to talk about cadmium solder then talk about it but all you are doing is arguing with me and derailing the thread you hold so dear.

lets just count the words in our posts and lets decide who is arguing with who.

peace and regards.

-zia

Simon · « **Reply #29 on:** February 25, 2018, 06:05:57 pm »

I thought America was RoHS compliant. I had a problem with a customer insisting on and therefore not wanting cadmium plated connectors because their customer was in America. Although in America the distributor of connectors does not have any problems selling cadmium plated connectors. So I think it's a case of the Yanks don't mind their own toxins but they won't take anyone else's even if they originated in America only to be shipped back!

Yes in the past a lot of materials have been used that were either easy and nobody cared about the consequences for we were just ignorant of what the stuff did. The regulations are a combination of what we have learnt over the years about materials and the desire to control people's attitudes to these materials. If there is not a law in place and the toxic material is cheaper guess which one will be used? The toxic one. I think this is one of the reasons why here in Europe we fear a trade deal with America where regulations are more lax and we do not wish to see our own watered-down in order to become compatible for the sake of trade. We would rather American standard to be raised to the same as ours.

In China the manufacture of solar panels has led to a loss of pollution from byproducts which could be integrated back into the manufacturing process but aren't all at least weren't because of the cost of the machinery to do that. Hopefully that is now being done but is perhaps one of the reasons why Chinese panels are much cheaper to buy than we can make them fall in any other country. If somebody is willing to turn their backyard into a chemical waste dump order to produce goods more cheaply because there are no regulations to stop that this is what happens and is the reason why Europe and to a degree America has strict regulations and I'm sure regulations are coming in in China as well.

MisterDiodes · « **Reply #30 on:** February 25, 2018, 06:43:49 pm »

A couple thoughts to add....

A) Cadmium itself is NOT toxic in certain solid forms; for instance we get parts cad-plated all the time. For aerospace / mil electrical connectors this is a practical (and only) choice when stainless steel won't work. Now -WHERE_ you get your parts plated is another story, since the process itself is a bit toxic and requires safe disposal / PPE. It does get expensive. Harmful? No, not in certain forms. Ship to EU?? Of course if its essential to aerospace / stationary industrial or telecom equipment...a least it was OK last month. That's like leaded solder...if it HAS to work with some "banned" substance then EU will let it in, RoHs is more strict for consumer devices for sure.

Handling a cad plated screw is NOT going to kill you, and never was dangerous in a typical handling situation.

Snowboards are millions of times more harmful, and yet you can buy those anywhere. It's weird how politicians decide what is dangerous or not for us naughty children to play with. For instance: If it comes down to protecting the Earth, then let's ban Sex: That creates people, and people harm the Earth, therefore let's get on with reducing the population...The political arguments are useless when carried too far.

B) If you crimp or press fit your conductive parts together FIRST, so there is a solid mechanical connection between copper to copper conductors, the solder ain't gonna make any difference - it's not part of the conductive current flow path.

Look at well designed older equipment and look at how the copper wire is crimped or overwrapped with a copper wire cinch or sleeve crimped onto the output connector and wire - THEN soldered. That way you don't need cad solder in the first place.

So a lot of the time you don't even need Cad solder, other times it's handy when used only when you really need to. Just ventilate your soldering area, keep your hands clean and don't eat cad OR lead solder for dinner and you'll be perfectly fine.

Simon · « **Reply #31 on:** February 25, 2018, 06:47:11 pm »

I think here in the UK it is the opposite. A lot of companies don't really care. Example where I work electronics gets chopped in the bin yet we live on the same road as the "recycling centre". Under regulations these are supposed to be disposed of properly. The view here is that we are been forced to care about the environment therefore people don't actually care because they are been told by the government what to do.

I have long and repetitive arguments with a co-worker that sits across the desk from me as he basically hate anything electric because he is old-fashioned idiot that will not accept change and thinks older is better. We have a customer wanting to heat water for their vehicle for the heating of the cab with an electric heater yet he can't get his head around the fact that electric is the primary source of power and this is why we are not using a good old-fashioned diesel fuelled heater. I hear no end of stupid anecdotes from him about why an electric car is not a good idea.

When it comes to trading and obviously the not so minor detail that what a country imports has to comply with its own regulations ideally hope that we keep the current regulations as it is pointless coming up with a parallel set of regulations that say the same thing and that then need constantly amending sustained step. I would guess that in actual fact we will have to have our own set of rules that constantly mirror the CE rules. With regards to America I think a lot of the concerns are about food. People don't necessarily realise that every aspect of our lives is subject to regulations for better or worse. Usually for the better as they prevent people taking shortcuts to save money. Ultimately companies want to make money and it very easy for everybody to say "but I about the environment". They will harbour that sentiment until it makes their life difficult and because it is very easy in a larger organisation where one person makes the decision and another person has to actually carry it out things are more likely to get out of hand. The classic case being the VW scandal where everybody is both innocent and guilty and at the end of the day you are left wondering where was their conscience and what happened to morality.

I hear tales from a friend of him being threatened at work when he was the health and safety representative and he pointed out that people were putting solder down the sink. This is a big no-no but in this country always want to do what is convenient never what is right you have to make the right thing convenient for it to work or the sanctions for being caught so heavy you would never dare to transgress.

Where I work they were putting too much acid down the drains. The solution was not to work out how to put less acid down the drain but to put more water down the drain instead in order to die loot out the acid. The water board comes along and checks the manhole at the foot of our car park entrance where I assume all of the wastewater comes through from our building if they find too much of a concentration of the acid they will first warn us and then fine us. So the answer is to just put the same amount of acid down the drains but to swap it with water by leaving the water running non-stop to wash it through. Regulations are one thing morals are another and will is something that never really unites the two.

Simon · « **Reply #32 on:** February 25, 2018, 06:51:28 pm »

Quote from: MisterDiodes on February 25, 2018, 06:43:49 pm

A couple thoughts to add....

A) Cadmium itself is NOT toxic in certain solid forms; for instance we get parts cad-plated all the time. For aerospace / mil electrical connectors this is a practical (and only) choice when stainless steel won't work. Now -WHERE_ you get your parts plated is another story, since the process itself is a bit toxic and requires safe disposal / PPE. It does get expensive. Harmful? No, not in certain forms. Ship to EU?? Of course if its essential to aerospace / stationary industrial or telecom equipment...a least it was OK last month. That's like leaded solder...if it HAS to work with some "banned" substance then EU will let it in, RoHs is more strict for consumer devices for sure.

I assume you are referring to the same 5015 reverse bayonet connectors that I have had to deal with. These are the ones that the Americans would not accept on our products. There is an answer it is black zinc plating. As the promotions for the 38999 connectors put it black is the new green. You can also get a non-cadmium green plate but I am assuming the colour has been switched to black so that there are no arguments about what the green actually is. Unfortunately people are still holding onto those connectors that were originally designed for the second world war and it really is a case of older is not better as the minimum size of the pin's size 16 most of the time and these days lots of connector pins are usually carrying signals only and can be size 22. The pins for those reverse Bain connectors are also not easy to obtain in PCB form which makes the design of ECU is harder. I'm constantly trying to get people to switch away from them. Usually a customer nominates their own choice of reverse bayonet connector and demands it be in irridisciant blue or black. While both colours are compliant neither is available unless you want to hang around for six months and by a batch of 100.

zhtoor · « **Reply #33 on:** February 25, 2018, 08:54:06 pm »

Quote from: MisterDiodes on February 25, 2018, 06:43:49 pm

B) If you crimp or press fit your conductive parts together FIRST, so there is a solid mechanical connection between copper to copper conductors, the solder ain't gonna make any difference - it's not part of the conductive current flow path.

Look at well designed older equipment and look at how the copper wire is crimped or overwrapped with a copper wire cinch or sleeve crimped onto the output connector and wire - THEN soldered. That way you don't need cad solder in the first place.

So a lot of the time you don't even need Cad solder, other times it's handy when used only when you really need to. Just ventilate your soldering area, keep your hands clean and don't eat cad OR lead solder for dinner and you'll be perfectly fine.

provided that the press-fit / crimped etc. does not have wickable spaces where solder (lead based) capillary-burrows into.

regards.

-zia

chickenHeadKnob · « **Reply #34 on:** February 25, 2018, 08:57:26 pm »

Quote from: MisterDiodes on February 25, 2018, 06:43:49 pm

A couple thoughts to add....

A) Cadmium itself is NOT toxic in certain solid forms; for instance we get parts cad-plated all the time. For aerospace / mil electrical connectors this is a practical (and only) choice when stainless steel won't work. Now -WHERE_ you get your parts plated is another story, since the process itself is a bit toxic and requires safe disposal / PPE. It does get expensive. Harmful? No, not in certain forms. Ship to EU?? Of course if its essential to aerospace / stationary industrial or telecom equipment...a least it was OK last month. That's like leaded solder...if it HAS to work with some "banned" substance then EU will let it in, RoHs is more strict for consumer devices for sure.

Handling a cad plated screw is NOT going to kill you, and never was dangerous in a typical handling situation.

Since I have played around in the aviation field and handled AN grade fasteners, which are all cadmium plated by regulation I don't have any particular fear from just skin contact. None of the aircraft mechanics I have witnessed working wear gloves or are fussed about touching bolts. And they really are special when compared to hardware store fasteners, see here:http://spenceraircraft.com/hardware/fasteners-screws-bolts/airframe-bolt.html

As Andreas points out it is the low vapour pressure and inhaling fumes that gets you.

There are other reasons besides trying to achieve low EMF to add cadmium to a solder formulation. The low EMF use in electronics is really a boutique niche. The Kapp Alloy company in Oil City Penn. U.S.A. has an informative website:http://www.kappalloy.com/products-solder.php

They sell a few high ratio cadmium solders, one they call Kapp Tec is 95% Cd 5% Ag !!!
They also sell Kapp TecZ , and Kapp Rad.

Simon · « **Reply #35 on:** February 25, 2018, 09:13:24 pm »

I'm still alive and when having handled a few cadmium plated connectors. Like you say it is the particular use in solder which seems to be particularly hazardous.

xuda · « **Reply #36 on:** February 25, 2018, 10:44:56 pm »

I think no one will use Cd/Sn solder in general product...
Pls use a scientific view of it, it’s just a common experimental material.
Many experimental materials are more or less toxic.
The key is the right person to handle it in right way, and must take good protective measures.

Although I'm not sure if making/owning/transporting it is illegal in the EU, it is not illegal in China.
BTW,here is a global forum, not just Europeans ...

Please consider whether to add in the forum rules "Not allowed to sell RoHS incompatible items" HaHaHaHa..

TNX~!
BG5TOX(XuDa)

texaspyro · « **Reply #37 on:** February 26, 2018, 06:08:11 am »

Why 60/40 Cd/Sn? The standard lowest thermal EMF solder is 70/30.

A few years ago, I had to make my own Cd/Sn solder, but I had a proper lab to do it in. I'd love to get some real Cd/Sn solder. I know what it is, what it does, when and where to use it, and how to work with it. It's a very special purpose stuff, and not some use-it-everywhere-everyday material. For certain applications, there is no substitute that works as well. Companies that made precision metrology test equipment used to stash a small spool of the stuff inside the equipment that they sold... and not without good reason.

Simon · « **Reply #38 on:** February 26, 2018, 07:55:35 am »

well I suggest you have a word with Xuda, sounds like your man.......

xuda · « **Reply #39 on:** February 26, 2018, 09:13:17 am »

Any detail info about the different between 70/30 and 60/40 ?

LT's application note show it was 60/40 but Wikipedia show 70/30~~~I'm not sure.

Tnx~!

Conrad Hoffman · « **Reply #40 on:** February 26, 2018, 05:49:24 pm »

A previous discussion- https://www.eevblog.com/forum/projects/low-thermal-emf-solder/

xuda · « **Reply #41 on:** February 27, 2018, 06:35:14 am »

Thanks~!

ramon · « **Reply #42 on:** February 27, 2018, 04:00:14 pm »

Which are the cases when Cd cannot be substituted with any other options?
And what are the Cd substitutes? Ag and Au only?

PartialDischarge · « **Reply #43 on:** February 27, 2018, 05:05:57 pm »

It seems to me Simon that you made a mistake and dont want to admit it. Unless you appointed yourself a planetary customs officer with your own set of rules, I mean you can ban the seller for any forum rule you deem comvenient, but not on the grounds of non-rohs compliance of what he is selling simply because that solder does NOT have to comply with rohs by any means.

ogden · « **Reply #44 on:** February 27, 2018, 08:57:05 pm »

RoHS regulates "manufacturing various types of electronic and electrical equipment using hazardous materials". It does not regulate sales of hazardous materials, nor possession of them. It is strictly defined which kind of products are under regulation. DIY instruments which are used by creator are not in the list.

perdrix · « **Reply #45 on:** February 28, 2018, 02:51:50 am »

Sorry Simon,

But your ignorance of the existance of Low EMF Cd containing solder is no excuse for banning someone.

You should according to your arguments ban yourself as your sigline is very much advertising ...

Quote

The µCurrent has landed in Europe and now also selling Probe Master probes: http://www.simonselectronics.co.uk New stock now in

Also Cadmium containing solder is not toxic to handle. The only risk arises when soldering as some fumes can be given off (far less than people think) but proper ventilation solves any risk from that.

There are many of us here (myself included as I've almost run out of what little I have) who would like to purchase this sort of solder so please un-ban this guy.

ROHS is well intentioned, but goes WAY OTT - Keysight have a somewhat crippled verison of the 3548A for the EU because some Eurocrat decided that ROHS applid to that (really shouldn't as it's not a consumer product).

David

zhtoor · « **Reply #46 on:** February 28, 2018, 03:44:19 am »

Quote from: perdrix on February 28, 2018, 02:51:50 am

]The µCurrent has landed in Europe and now also selling Probe Master probes: http://www.simonselectronics.co.uk New stock now in

a picture is worth a 1000 words.

-zia

xuda · « **Reply #47 on:** March 01, 2018, 03:43:02 am »

found another previous discussion about Cd/Sn ratio :

http://volt-nuts.febo.narkive.com/fntPRIOB/low-thermal-emf-solder

martinr33 · « **Reply #48 on:** March 03, 2018, 06:20:01 am »

I've made my own cadmium solder. I used it to solder copper wire into audio copper banana plugs. You can get the materials off of eBay. Then, a good scale and a cheap solder pot will give you a lifetime supply (obviously, you could self-limit the lifetime...). The solder pot tins the copper, and you can leave enough on there to complete a joint. Not as convenient as flux in, of course, but I don't plan on making many joints wth it.

ogden · « **Reply #49 on:** March 03, 2018, 10:31:34 am »

Quote from: martinr33 on March 03, 2018, 06:20:01 am

obviously, you could self-limit the lifetime...

Sure. Either you limit lifetime of the solder or solder limits yours

texaspyro · « **Reply #50 on:** March 03, 2018, 06:15:21 pm »

You don't want to make CdSn solder in a metal pot, particularly one that has been used with lead. The metal residue gets into the solder. Even small amouts of contaimination kills the low thermal magic. I made mine in a ceramic crucible stirred with a quartz rod. I cast the solder into a semi-circular wire cross section using a machined ceramic mold.

MisterDiodes · « **Reply #51 on:** March 03, 2018, 07:11:41 pm »

Quote from: martinr33 on March 03, 2018, 06:20:01 am

I've made my own cadmium solder. I used it to solder copper wire into audio copper banana plugs. You can get the materials off of eBay. Then, a good scale and a cheap solder pot will give you a lifetime supply (obviously, you could self-limit the lifetime...). The solder pot tins the copper, and you can leave enough on there to complete a joint. Not as convenient as flux in, of course, but I don't plan on making many joints wth it.

At first glance I thought you were going to tell us abut the improved "sonic clarity" of the cad-solder, and how much "brighter and more defined" the sound was....

Yes a little Cd solder is handy, but not needed most of the time if you have an excellent mechanical copper to copper connection first (at that point the solder isn't even in the circuit) or if you have balanced connections at the same temp where the thermal EMF's tend to cancel anyway. Otherwise if you have LESS than an ideal mechanical / balanced thermal situation, it does help - a little, at uV levels. Sometimes you need that.

martinr33 · « **Reply #52 on:** March 04, 2018, 06:16:32 am »

I have some banana plugs from the audiophile world - they look like hollow tubes, and are gold on silver on copper. I use a drop of the CdSn solder to secure the inner conductor of the coax to the inside of the plug.

ap · « **Reply #53 on:** March 04, 2018, 09:28:10 am »

Quote from: martinr33 on March 04, 2018, 06:16:32 am

I have some banana plugs from the audiophile world - they look like hollow tubes, and are gold on silver on copper. I use a drop of the CdSn solder to secure the inner conductor of the coax to the inside of the plug.

The hollow tubes (spring type copper alloy) are based on CuBe. CuBe has a worse EMF than CuTe. If you want low EMF (which I have doubts you do measure, tbh), you better start with CuTe, no need for SnCd. Or in other words, any potential effect of the SnCd will be covered by the CuBe EMF (which, again, you probably will not see anyhow, unless, it at all, you are working in the 100nV and below range/resolution; i.e. a 34420 or the like). And secondly, a EMF voltage in the small solder spot you mention will only be generated if there is a temperature delta accross it. In such a small spot obviously pretty impossible. The CuBe will equalize all temperature delta over the spot's lenght/cross section of a few millimeters only.
One can do many things every day, some of which make more, some of which make less sense. The use of SnCd is pretty much on the bottom of that scale.

stijena1973 · « **Reply #54 on:** January 12, 2020, 04:43:38 pm »

Quote from: texaspyro on February 26, 2018, 06:08:11 am

Why 60/40 Cd/Sn? The standard lowest thermal EMF solder is 70/30.

A few years ago, I had to make my own Cd/Sn solder, but I had a proper lab to do it in. I'd love to get some real Cd/Sn solder. I know what it is, what it does, when and where to use it, and how to work with it. It's a very special purpose stuff, and not some use-it-everywhere-everyday material. For certain applications, there is no substitute that works as well. Companies that made precision metrology test equipment used to stash a small spool of the stuff inside the equipment that they sold... and not without good reason.

According to (Fig1) :

https://iopscience.iop.org/article/10.1088/0950-7671/36/11/413/pdf

and noted also in table "Values of constants"

If Your ABSOLUTE temperature is 27C, then 75Cd/25Sn is appropriate.
If Your ABSOLUTE temperature is 38C, then 70Cd/30Sn is appropriate.
If Your ABSOLUTE temperature is 53C, then 65Cd/35Sn is appropriate.

Assuming that temperature inside Your device is around 40C then 70/30 is composition to go.

If You are using it inside heated oven then 65/35 or even 60/40 is better,

because zero coefficient is limited to that narrow range of temps (Neutral pt. in table "Values of constants" )

stijena1973 · « **Reply #55 on:** January 12, 2020, 05:00:25 pm »

Quote from: Simon on February 25, 2018, 02:45:11 pm

Quote from: zhtoor on February 25, 2018, 02:41:33 pm
Quote from: xuda on February 25, 2018, 02:14:18 pm
Okay,Simon, I don't want to argue,respect your decision, you have the right to ban any person you think irregularities.

I am not a businessman, I am a serious semiconductor engineer. Just wanna try this solder in several experiment to get test data.
This solder wire is not recommended for general applications? I just want to help people who really need it. (Anyway, you never have to use. It's so rare,especially the wire shape. Most people who need it are in this section)
This material is not environmentally friendly, but it is not illegal. This thread is just a order aggregation thread~~(but NOW OVER)

I saw disdain for the Chinese in your lines and I am not happy about it. so disappointed~

I hope it is a misunderstanding,thank you!

BG5TOX(XuDa)

hello,

i second that.

if the "Global Moderator"'s rules required to ban this user, it could have been done in a (much more) civilized manner.

regards.

-zia

They are not the global Moderator's rules they are the admins rules i.e. Dave. I'm not quite sure what was uncivilised about the banning. If I deem a poster to be breaking the rules or otherwise disrupting the forum I simply click ban on their profile there is no civilised or uncivilised way of doing it. I click ban on their profile. I could have locked the topic and that would be the end of that but because I didn't want to be uncivilised I left it open for discussion and I have not banned the returned original poster and in allowing the discussion to continue. How more civil due want me to be? I don't know what the rules in China are about such substances but in the EU you can't just sell this stuff over-the-counter which is what made the original post look even more dodgy.

I think the member wanted to initiate "Group Buy", not to sell anything. As I understood the text, he wanted to order a batch from the factory which imposes 20kg minimum order.

Then he offered to resell the surplus in chunks of 500g. What is wrong with that?

I saw a lot of similar initiatives during years, for anything from ltz1000 chips to PCBs. How this is different?

BradC · « **Reply #56 on:** January 13, 2020, 12:14:50 am »

Quote from: stijena1973 on January 12, 2020, 05:00:25 pm

I saw a lot of similar initiatives during years, for anything from ltz1000 chips to PCBs. How this is different?

You are replying to a thread that is nearly 2 years old now. It's done, dusted and all the arguments had and settled long ago.


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