Author Topic: Ultra Low Noise Reference 2DW232, 2DW233, 2DW23x  (Read 128672 times)

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Offline Cerebus

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Re: Ultra Low Noise Reference 2DW232, 2DW233, 2DW23x
« Reply #100 on: October 27, 2016, 01:48:35 am »
I think we should start a group buy thread and take that discussion off of this thread.

Seconded. The thanks are also seconded.
Anybody got a syringe I can use to squeeze the magic smoke back into this?
 

Offline evb149

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Re: Ultra Low Noise Reference 2DW232, 2DW233, 2DW23x
« Reply #101 on: October 27, 2016, 10:59:12 am »
Thank you zlymex.
The results are good to see and interesting.

I've just finished testing 10, powered by three lithium cells in series(12.4V noise free) and series 1k precision resistor with the test zener to get about 6.3mA test current.


The terminal marked red(may be other color) is negative, center terminal is positive, the other terminal(connected to the case) open.

Because the noise is very small, and also the TC is not tuned, the device is very sensitive to air turbulence, I covered it with a lot of tissues (wrapped around the device and legs).

The result is positive, 9 is very typical but one is a bit above average. I plotted these on the original chart with added green dots. Some dots are overlapping.

I've packed 430pcs up and ready to ship to VintageNut/USA tomorrow.
 

Offline hammy

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Re: Ultra Low Noise Reference 2DW232, 2DW233, 2DW23x
« Reply #102 on: October 27, 2016, 11:26:37 am »
I've packed 430pcs up and ready to ship to VintageNut/USA tomorrow.

How is the shipping/distribution now organized?

Thank you zylmex!
hammy
 

Offline simon51

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Re: Ultra Low Noise Reference 2DW232, 2DW233, 2DW23x
« Reply #103 on: October 27, 2016, 02:00:33 pm »
zlymex,thank you!
I do a simple test for 2dw233 compare with ltflu-1.The circuit is same with the fluke5440a REF board that series two sza263(ltflu-1)  then buffer output 13v.I replace ltflu-1 with 2dw233 and series 1.8k(1k should be better) foil resistor with 2dw233 to get current about 3.6mA,then test the output noise(0.1~10Hz),the ltflu-1x2 is about 1.8uV(vpp),the 2dw233x2 is about 1uV(vpp). :-+The problem is the 2dw233x2 output voltage is not stable, The matter needs to bo resolved.

 
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Offline zlymex

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Re: Ultra Low Noise Reference 2DW232, 2DW233, 2DW23x
« Reply #104 on: October 27, 2016, 02:01:22 pm »
I've packed 430pcs up and ready to ship to VintageNut/USA tomorrow.

How is the shipping/distribution now organized?

Thank you zylmex!
hammy
I've just sent a PM to VintageNut, the shipping company(EMS) requires the telephone number of the receiver.
 

Offline zlymex

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Re: Ultra Low Noise Reference 2DW232, 2DW233, 2DW23x
« Reply #105 on: October 27, 2016, 02:11:28 pm »
zlymex,thank you!
I do a simple test for 2dw233 compare with ltflu-1.The circuit is same with the fluke5440a REF board that series two sza263(ltflu-1)  then buffer output 13v.I replace ltflu-1 with 2dw233 and series 1.8k(1k should be better) foil resistor with 2dw233 to get current about 3.6mA,then test the output noise(0.1~10Hz),the ltflu-1x2 is about 1.8uV(vpp),the 2dw233x2 is about 1uV(vpp). :-+The problem is the 2dw233x2 output voltage is not stable, The matter needs to bo resolved.

Nice work.
It seems to be some 50Hz noise on the photo of the oscilloscope.
The instability of  2DW233 may result from the air flow around the TO-39 case which can be minimized by fillers of soft and insulated material around 2DW233 and the pins on both side of the PCB. Try tissue first.
 

Offline VintageNut

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Re: Ultra Low Noise Reference 2DW232, 2DW233, 2DW23x
« Reply #106 on: October 27, 2016, 04:37:17 pm »
I've packed 430pcs up and ready to ship to VintageNut/USA tomorrow.

How is the shipping/distribution now organized?

Thank you zylmex!
hammy
I've just sent a PM to VintageNut, the shipping company(EMS) requires the telephone number of the receiver.

I sent a PM with my phone number. Thank you very much for doing this very kind thing!
working instruments :Keithley 260,261,2750,7708, 2000 (calibrated), 2015, 236, 237, 238, 147, 220,  Rigol DG1032  PAR Model 128 Lock-In amplifier, Fluke 332A, Gen Res 4107 KVD, 4107D KVD, Fluke 731B X2 (calibrated), Fluke 5450A (calibrated)
 

Offline VintageNut

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Re: Ultra Low Noise Reference 2DW232, 2DW233, 2DW23x
« Reply #107 on: October 27, 2016, 04:48:59 pm »
I've packed 430pcs up and ready to ship to VintageNut/USA tomorrow.

How is the shipping/distribution now organized?

Thank you zylmex!
hammy

We will start a new thread for the group buy if the 2DX233 parts that Zlymex has kindly purchased for the group here on this thread.
working instruments :Keithley 260,261,2750,7708, 2000 (calibrated), 2015, 236, 237, 238, 147, 220,  Rigol DG1032  PAR Model 128 Lock-In amplifier, Fluke 332A, Gen Res 4107 KVD, 4107D KVD, Fluke 731B X2 (calibrated), Fluke 5450A (calibrated)
 

Offline zlymex

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Re: Ultra Low Noise Reference 2DW232, 2DW233, 2DW23x
« Reply #108 on: October 27, 2016, 04:54:31 pm »
I've packed 430pcs up and ready to ship to VintageNut/USA tomorrow.

How is the shipping/distribution now organized?

Thank you zylmex!
hammy
I've just sent a PM to VintageNut, the shipping company(EMS) requires the telephone number of the receiver.

I sent a PM with my phone number. Thank you very much for doing this very kind thing!
Received and the package is shipped.
 

Online BravoV

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Re: Ultra Low Noise Reference 2DW232, 2DW233, 2DW23x
« Reply #109 on: October 27, 2016, 06:32:03 pm »
Zlymex, pls read your PM, regarding zones, I'm alone in my region.  :'(

Offline zlymex

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Re: Ultra Low Noise Reference 2DW232, 2DW233, 2DW23x
« Reply #110 on: October 27, 2016, 06:50:46 pm »
Zlymex, pls read your PM, regarding zones, I'm alone in my region.  :'(
I read your PM but I'm not sure what you need apart from request 20 samples of 2DW232 for which you can contact VintageNut. I'm here only responsible for shipping to one oversea location(USA).
 

Offline babysitter

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Re: Ultra Low Noise Reference 2DW232, 2DW233, 2DW23x
« Reply #111 on: October 28, 2016, 06:39:09 pm »
Look what a member of my local Makerspace has drawn for me, will be printed next week and hopefully fits 2DW23X and also TO-99 (LTZ1000). At the club we print with PLA which is not suitable for high temperature, ABS can be printed but it seems to need tighter parameter control or something, so no one there likes to print it. Mounting holes are M2. Will publish STL file. The thick wall will be flled with a air chamber structure by the slicing software, giving better isolation than solid material.

Best regards
Hendrik.


 
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Offline branadic

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Re: Ultra Low Noise Reference 2DW232, 2DW233, 2DW23x
« Reply #112 on: October 29, 2016, 12:06:23 am »
I have access to a DLP printer (layer thickness 25µm - 150µm, window size 70 x 40mm² with 1920x1080px, maximum part size  400 x 330 x 200mm³).

I printed a LTZ1000 spacer some months ago using a material called PLASTCure Rigid 10500, but a material called PLASTCure Clear 100 (transparen) is available too.
If there is a bigger interest I could offer such caps for small budget by printing a complete batch of such caps.
Fluke 8050A | Prema 5000 | Prema 5017 SC | Advantest R6581D | GenRad 1434-G | Datron 4000A | Tek 2465A | VNWA2.x with TCXO upgrade and access to: Keysight 3458A, Keithley 2002, Prema 5017 SC, 34401A, 34410A, Keithley 2182A, HDO6054, Keysight 53230A and other goodies at work
 

Offline quarks

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Re: Ultra Low Noise Reference 2DW232, 2DW233, 2DW23x
« Reply #113 on: October 29, 2016, 01:11:13 am »
Hello branadic,

will these caps fit to the HP3458A A9 LTZ1000 Reference Board?

thanks
quarks
 

Offline babysitter

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Re: Ultra Low Noise Reference 2DW232, 2DW233, 2DW23x
« Reply #114 on: October 29, 2016, 02:19:35 am »
@Branadic: If you tell me the hole distance and the location of the nose relative to the holes, I can ask this guy to apply it to his drawing. But i have defined relatively thick walls as I can have some air filled closed holes in the wall then.

We have only a prusa I3 filament printer at the club, dont ask for details, I dont know it - yet.

br
hendrik
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Offline branadic

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Re: Ultra Low Noise Reference 2DW232, 2DW233, 2DW23x
« Reply #115 on: October 29, 2016, 03:45:51 am »
I guess it was TiN how published a copy of a LTZ1000 cap, a while ago. Maybe someone wants to check wether this one matches the original used in 3458A?
Otherwise we can use any other design, as long as everyone is fine with the it.
The good think about the printed material is, that you can also cut a thread into the material.
Fluke 8050A | Prema 5000 | Prema 5017 SC | Advantest R6581D | GenRad 1434-G | Datron 4000A | Tek 2465A | VNWA2.x with TCXO upgrade and access to: Keysight 3458A, Keithley 2002, Prema 5017 SC, 34401A, 34410A, Keithley 2182A, HDO6054, Keysight 53230A and other goodies at work
 

Offline Nuno_pt

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Re: Ultra Low Noise Reference 2DW232, 2DW233, 2DW23x
« Reply #116 on: October 29, 2016, 03:50:50 am »
Maybe we can arrange a cap that fits the LTZ/LM399/2DW23x, they should be pretty close in terms of dimensions.
Nuno
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Offline pelule

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Re: Ultra Low Noise Reference 2DW232, 2DW233, 2DW23x
« Reply #117 on: October 29, 2016, 05:02:46 am »
I would add myself to the list of buyers of that cap-print-group, if that fit at least to LTZ1000 and 2DW2xx (thus also to LMx99 - not the H package).
You will learn something new every single day
 

Offline babysitter

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Re: Ultra Low Noise Reference 2DW232, 2DW233, 2DW23x
« Reply #118 on: October 29, 2016, 05:21:52 am »
Hey, great response! I guess we can make some of them at the club. But first I'd like to check the measures, try the 2DW when they arrive, my LTZ in the finished reference source is already under a (vacuum port) cap. Distribution is easy with STL files, everyone who wants one only has to find someone to print.



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Offline pelule

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Re: Ultra Low Noise Reference 2DW232, 2DW233, 2DW23x
« Reply #119 on: October 29, 2016, 06:37:19 am »
Hi Flinstone,
use that link below to add yourself to the list (but read hints/instruction first, you'll find, if you scroll up on that page a bit )
See link:
http://www.eevblog.com/forum/metrology/group-buy-of-2dw233-ultra-low-noise-zener-reference/msg1057877/#msg1057877
You will learn something new every single day
 

Offline branadic

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Re: Ultra Low Noise Reference 2DW232, 2DW233, 2DW23x
« Reply #120 on: November 01, 2016, 05:38:25 am »
Quote
@Branadic: If you tell me the hole distance and the location of the nose relative to the holes, I can ask this guy to apply it to his drawing. But i have defined relatively thick walls as I can have some air filled closed holes in the wall then.

Could find the CAD files from TiN:

https://xdevs.com/doc/HP_Agilent_Keysight/3458A/cad/a9_cap_top.STEP
https://xdevs.com/doc/HP_Agilent_Keysight/3458A/cad/a9_cap_bot.STEP

There you can find the hole distance.
Fluke 8050A | Prema 5000 | Prema 5017 SC | Advantest R6581D | GenRad 1434-G | Datron 4000A | Tek 2465A | VNWA2.x with TCXO upgrade and access to: Keysight 3458A, Keithley 2002, Prema 5017 SC, 34401A, 34410A, Keithley 2182A, HDO6054, Keysight 53230A and other goodies at work
 

Offline Kleinstein

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Re: Ultra Low Noise Reference 2DW232, 2DW233, 2DW23x
« Reply #121 on: November 01, 2016, 06:08:17 am »
The cap will be only a minor detail, and usually different from the one for an LTZ1000, as the zener has no internal heater. So the zener will consume less power and good insulation may not be a good thing.
The more important point might be choosing the circuit. The simple version is something like the one used with a LM399 or LM329: scale to a higher voltage (e.g. 10 V) and than use a resistor to set the current.
 

Offline zlymex

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Re: Ultra Low Noise Reference 2DW232, 2DW233, 2DW23x
« Reply #122 on: November 01, 2016, 02:11:30 pm »
The cap will be only a minor detail, and usually different from the one for an LTZ1000, as the zener has no internal heater. So the zener will consume less power and good insulation may not be a good thing.
The more important point might be choosing the circuit. The simple version is something like the one used with a LM399 or LM329: scale to a higher voltage (e.g. 10 V) and than use a resistor to set the current.

And because if it, a more 'useful' zener current of 8mA or >12mA can be applied to achieve even lower noise per device than LTZ1000 for which the data sheet only recommend 4mA.

The cap or tissue are useful only to stop the air flow around the device/legs, not for thermal insulation. However, these two are often closely related. One good example is the one used by Datron/Wavetek in their 49xx voltage reference where they use black form plus a metal outer case.

As for the step-up to 10V, yes, there is this circuit of "scale to a higher voltage (e.g. 10 V) and than use a resistor to set the current." on the first page of the thread.
 

Offline Kleinstein

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Re: Ultra Low Noise Reference 2DW232, 2DW233, 2DW23x
« Reply #123 on: November 02, 2016, 06:01:59 am »
To take really advantage of the low noise of this reference type, one might want to use a lower noise than the AD707 - even though the AD707 is already quite good. As input bias / current noise is not that critical, something like an OP27 / LT1007 should be OK.

 

Offline branadic

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Re: Ultra Low Noise Reference 2DW232, 2DW233, 2DW23x
« Reply #124 on: November 02, 2016, 06:14:59 am »
It would be good to have the second diode directly in use, maybe for some servo temperature controller.
Fluke 8050A | Prema 5000 | Prema 5017 SC | Advantest R6581D | GenRad 1434-G | Datron 4000A | Tek 2465A | VNWA2.x with TCXO upgrade and access to: Keysight 3458A, Keithley 2002, Prema 5017 SC, 34401A, 34410A, Keithley 2182A, HDO6054, Keysight 53230A and other goodies at work
 


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