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Author Topic: what happened to LTZ1000 stocks?  (Read 2252 times)

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Online zhtoor

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what happened to LTZ1000 stocks?
« on: November 15, 2017, 12:38:13 AM »
is analog devices at "work" here ?

regards.
 

Online Andreas

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Re: what happened to LTZ1000 stocks?
« Reply #1 on: November 15, 2017, 01:10:12 AM »
Hello,

most probably Keysight will offer his brand new 34480 in 6-12 months  8)

with best regards

Andreas
 
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Online zhtoor

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Re: what happened to LTZ1000 stocks?
« Reply #2 on: November 15, 2017, 01:13:22 AM »
Hello,

most probably Keysight will offer his brand new 34480 in 6-12 months  8)

with best regards

Andreas

doubt that very much.
keysight has lost its mettle.

best regards.
 

Online NANDBlog

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Re: what happened to LTZ1000 stocks?
« Reply #3 on: November 15, 2017, 01:33:34 AM »
Hello,

most probably Keysight will offer his brand new 34480 in 6-12 months  8)

with best regards

Andreas

Those 10-100 LTZ1000s that are usually stocked at Digikey and Mouser can easily purchased by a single even small manufacturer, if they need them in a hurry.
 

Offline TiN

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Re: what happened to LTZ1000 stocks?
« Reply #4 on: November 15, 2017, 03:08:31 AM »
Hello,

most probably Keysight will offer his brand new 34480 in 6-12 months  8)

with best regards

Andreas

Those 10-100 LTZ1000s that are usually stocked at Digikey and Mouser can easily purchased by a single even small manufacturer, if they need them in a hurry.

It's not available on DK either since August.
« Last Edit: November 15, 2017, 03:29:31 AM by TiN »
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Offline MisterDiodes

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Re: what happened to LTZ1000 stocks?
« Reply #5 on: November 15, 2017, 03:39:55 AM »
Linear Tech is evaluating some new materials suppliers and testing them in their process for LTZ1000a, they tell me they will be able to ramp up production very soon.    We just got notified our August order will be shipping in the next week or thereabouts.

The LTZ is not going anywhere and will remain in the parts catalog, it will eventually become branded AD but right now it is still LT.
 
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Offline chuckb

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Re: what happened to LTZ1000 stocks?
« Reply #6 on: November 15, 2017, 03:45:32 AM »
I'm seeing a 4-6 week leadtime through Digikey. Order the parts and they will be shipped when Digikey gets them. My credit card does not get charged until the parts ship. Don't wait till you need them to order them.
 

Online zhtoor

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Re: what happened to LTZ1000 stocks?
« Reply #7 on: November 15, 2017, 03:50:42 AM »
Linear Tech is evaluating some new materials suppliers and testing them in their process for LTZ1000a, they tell me they will be able to ramp up production very soon.    We just got notified our August order will be shipping in the next week or thereabouts.

The LTZ is not going anywhere and will remain in the parts catalog, it will eventually become branded AD but right now it is still LT.

"new materials suppliers" and "ramp-up" leads me to ask:-

1. why new materials on an already proven die?
2. why was the production stopped / slowed-down?

dangerously close to the time of AD takeover, what gives?  :-//

regards.
 

Online Kleinstein

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Re: what happened to LTZ1000 stocks?
« Reply #8 on: November 15, 2017, 04:08:43 AM »
They might need relative special wafers to get the best performance. A new source might give lower cost or better performance or just an alternative in case the old source an not deliver. Also the TO99 case is kind of special now - not used that often anymore.

Not sure this delay is related to the AD merger. Though it is possible the the merger did add a little to the delay as management was busy with other things.

Such a special chip will not be produced every weak - more like a batch for the next months or year. It might also include quite some lead time for extended anneals / curing and a chance for a batch to turn out bad, thus an unexpected delay.
 

Online zhtoor

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Re: what happened to LTZ1000 stocks?
« Reply #9 on: November 15, 2017, 04:13:12 AM »
Also the TO99 case is kind of special now - not used that often anymore.

LTZ1000P(CZ) 8 pin DIP/SOIC package?  :-DD
 

Offline MisterDiodes

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Re: what happened to LTZ1000 stocks?
« Reply #10 on: November 15, 2017, 04:27:15 AM »
Again:  My LT apps engineer got the info from their Vref line production manager, and the design has NOT changed at all.  They had to evaluate a new materials supplier (not wafers, that's all they said), do some detailed spec-sheet performance testing to make sure all is well, and then resume shipping.  You can't test LTZ's overnight.  This apparently has nothing to do with merger; I wouldn't read too much into it.  This happens in the low ppm world.

We have seen delays like this before now and then - these are not exactly easy to make and test, and remember you've got the big customers ahead of you in line. 
 
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Online zhtoor

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Re: what happened to LTZ1000 stocks?
« Reply #11 on: November 15, 2017, 04:48:43 AM »
This happens in the low ppm world.

low ppm = low profits per month.

what would be LTZ1000 contribution to the bottom line? 1-2 million per year?

regards.
 

Offline GreggD

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Re: what happened to LTZ1000 stocks?
« Reply #12 on: November 15, 2017, 04:57:48 AM »
In TO-5, Arrow has 14, Chip1stop has 17
 

Online Andreas

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Re: what happened to LTZ1000 stocks?
« Reply #13 on: November 15, 2017, 05:40:29 AM »
Linear Tech is evaluating some new materials suppliers and testing them in their process for LTZ1000a,

Hello,

I hope that they will not change the die attach.
Otherwise I fear the stability will not be the same as before.
(Similar to the LT1027 which has suffered from the LS8 package/die attach in my opinion).

with best regards

Andreas
 

Offline floobydust

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Re: what happened to LTZ1000 stocks?
« Reply #14 on: November 15, 2017, 07:06:09 AM »
If it's not the wafer, what "new materials supplier" is there?  Who's putting the gun to their head to change suppliers on this sole-sourced part.
Logically, continue making it with the old material until the new material gets approved.
Any quality/supply issues will cause big trouble for manufacturers dependent on it.

I'm skeptical. Mergers and acquisitions are never good for products.
AD will surely consolidate fab, remove redundant teams, "improve" things to lower costs. Increasing shareholder value is paramount and great art is never about that.
 

Offline branadic

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Re: what happened to LTZ1000 stocks?
« Reply #15 on: November 15, 2017, 07:24:59 AM »
Maybe Analog Devices needs the LTZ for their own reference modules on AD5791. See the article High Precision Voltage Source from Oct. 2017.  :-DD

EVAL-AD5791SDZ expected availability @ RS Components on 21.02.2018



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« Last Edit: November 15, 2017, 07:39:06 AM by branadic »
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Offline Edwin G. Pettis

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Re: what happened to LTZ1000 stocks?
« Reply #16 on: November 15, 2017, 07:39:47 AM »
Problems with material suppliers is nothing new, my guess is that LT's current material supplier is having problems with the purity and it is causing problems for the LTZ, this would not be a wafer level problem, given the higher performance level, impurities are critical.  We've had problems with resistance alloy suppliers in the past, going back decades, which caused a lot of trouble.  This happens and often finding a new supplier is the solution.  Rest assured, there is no change to the LTZ as it is made, there is absolutely no move to put it in a different package, it wouldn't work to spec otherwise.  I rather doubt it has anything to do with the die leads either, but exactly what is causing the problem is unknown outside of Linear Tech as such.

Back in the old days, we had vertical manufacturing, a semi house did everything, raw materials came in one door and the finished product came out another door, everything done under one roof in effect.  Nobody has that kind of integration now, it has gotten too expensive and too many regulations.  And with that change, managing quality control of materials became much more difficult, many books and articles have been written about the supply chain and how it is spread around the world complicating quality control.  It is no simple matter these days.

This kind of disruption happens all the time in ICs, if you kept an eye on delivery dates, you can always tell when supply is not meeting demand for a myriad of reasons and raw materials are often at the head of the list.  A lot of those raw materials comes from countries that are not the most stable on the planet.  Those that process the raw materials are also scattered all over the globe, just try keeping control of all of the variables involved all the time.  The fact is even highly reputable companies can run into problems and it can take a lot of time to fix it, customers can't wait very long in most instances.
 
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Online zhtoor

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Re: what happened to LTZ1000 stocks?
« Reply #17 on: November 15, 2017, 07:52:29 AM »
Maybe Analog Devices needs the LTZ for their own reference modules on AD5791. See the article High Precision Voltage Source from Oct. 2017.  :-DD

EVAL-AD5791SDZ expected availability @ RS Components on 21.02.2018



-branadic-

note the "x1000" mark, would that mean - AD1000? (relabelled)  :-DD

regards.
 

Offline Echo88

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Re: what happened to LTZ1000 stocks?
« Reply #18 on: November 15, 2017, 08:04:06 AM »
Do they have documentation on this X1000-board? Since the old standard AD5791-base-board has LTZ-1000-layout errors according to Mickle T.
« Last Edit: November 15, 2017, 07:59:25 PM by Echo88 »
 

Online EEVblog

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Re: what happened to LTZ1000 stocks?
« Reply #19 on: November 15, 2017, 09:46:49 AM »
low ppm = low profits per month.
what would be LTZ1000 contribution to the bottom line? 1-2 million per year?

You could say that about almost every one of the thousands of chips in their portfolio. Small profits across thousands of different products is their business.
 

Online zhtoor

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Re: what happened to LTZ1000 stocks?
« Reply #20 on: November 15, 2017, 10:01:06 AM »
low ppm = low profits per month.
what would be LTZ1000 contribution to the bottom line? 1-2 million per year?

You could say that about almost every one of the thousands of chips in their portfolio. Small profits across thousands of different products is their business.

hello,

lets look at a little bit of history:-

1. REFAMP SZA263 by motorola used in 731's - production dropped - not feasible / profitable.
2. LTFLU done by LT+Fluke used (internally) in 732's - production dropped (?) - not feasible / profitable.
3. LM399/199 done by National Carried over by LT - production? (questionable production future?)
4. LTZ1000 done by LT acquired by ADI - just compare volumes of a typical power product with a high-end vref like LTZ1000 - questionable profits.

i for one don't want to sound alarmist, but there might be financial difficulties in sustaining the high-end production line.
(i would definitely want LT/ADI to continue producing a stellar product like LTZ1000, even at a price hike - reasonable that is)

second source anyone? microsemi? linearsystems? (or shanghai factory #17  :-DD)
or maybe availability of the bare die product?

regards.
« Last Edit: November 15, 2017, 10:31:46 AM by zhtoor »
 

Offline floobydust

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Re: what happened to LTZ1000 stocks?
« Reply #21 on: November 15, 2017, 01:14:54 PM »
LTZ1000A is USD $60 (USD $70 in Canada) from Digikey. Surely there's room for decent margin and possibly another manufacturer now. I doubt Fluke or Keysight etc. like being held by their balls on this.

I'm not sure what the production time constant is - from start to finish.
Synthetic quartz crystals take 2-6 months to grow (Epson), an example of a long time-constant. By the time you realize you have a problem, it's too late. The batch is in the garbage and hmmm what caused it.

You must have a stable process, patient (management), tolerate low yields, have expensive test equipment, highly skilled people -  a precision manufacturing environment with some art to it.
That is harder and harder to accomplish and I find larger corporations fumble around, bungle it and then give up. Impatience, dumb leadership, and weak commitment all contribute.
Smaller companies are agile, flexible and LT was pretty good for niche products of higher quality.

So I think these parts are dropped due to the unique production requirements and oddball nature of them, compared to the big corp's "let's pound out the op-amps and make $" business plan.

 
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Online zhtoor

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Re: what happened to LTZ1000 stocks?
« Reply #22 on: November 15, 2017, 02:40:03 PM »
I doubt Fluke or Keysight etc. like being held by their balls on this.

KFLU-1K?  :-DD

on a more serious note, how about an open-source-chip project as in crowd-sourcing, maybe rope-in TSMC or some other fab?
(Bob Dobkin could be of some help  ;))

regards.
« Last Edit: November 15, 2017, 02:44:21 PM by zhtoor »
 

Offline blueskull

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Re: what happened to LTZ1000 stocks?
« Reply #23 on: November 15, 2017, 02:49:51 PM »
I think the so called new material is not for performance, but for environmental reasons. I wouldn't risk my reputation on my flagship product for some minor performance tweaking.
Either their supplier is asking for too much price to force them to evaluate a new material, or it's being banned by some government EPA rules (think of asbestos).
SIGSEGV is inevitable if you try to talk more than you know. If I say gibberish, keep in mind that my license plate is SIGSEGV.
 

Online zhtoor

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Re: what happened to LTZ1000 stocks?
« Reply #24 on: November 15, 2017, 03:00:22 PM »
or maybe a cheaper package supplier from china?
(or LT/ADI have neophytes like me in the CAD section!)

regards.
« Last Edit: November 15, 2017, 03:05:02 PM by zhtoor »
 


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