[POLL] Do you find it hard to setup FPGA-based embedded system?

[BrianHG]

I managed a complete video switching, mixing, scaling, format converting image processor on an Altera EP3C55F780 written 95% in Verilog using Quartus II v9.1.  I filled it to the rim with 3 x 32bit MCUs internal + all the graphics core & debug 100% unbreakable internal OSD & I still added an external ARM as an Ethernet bridge with TCPIP stack and it also operated as an FPGA Bootprom firmware updater and real-time battery backed clock.  This was not easy, but at the time, 6 years ago, it was the only way to get the massive IO speeds & memory bandwidth for scaling & processing 2x 1080p inputs onto 2x 1080p outputs with picture-in-picture & all the controls you would expect in a rack-mount studio video scaler.  Since then I havent taken on any new major FPGA projects, but, I wonder how much they advanced in speed and density since then.

Note that the system would operate without the external ARM, but, it would run with it's last settings without a means of logging onto the local network.  Though the front panel worked, it didn't allow access to all the functions.

[FrankBuss]

For some projects the Propeller might be useful, because of the multiprocessor architecture. For their new version, they plan to implement a small CPU core for each of the 64 pins, which are powerful enough to implement things like an UART, SPI or PWM:

http://forums.parallax.com/discussion/163134/propeller-2-specs

Looks like an interesting idea. Some time ago I tested the first version of the Propeller and it is a nice chip, much easier to use for beginners than a FPGA, but more powerful for tasks that require lots of custom realtime IO than a standard microcontroller.

[ebclr]

Cheap and nice board for newcomers to FPGA world

http://www.earthpeopletechnology.com/?wpsc-product=ept-570-ap-u2-usbpld-development-system-for-the-arduino-uno

https://www.amazon.com/Altera-CPLD-Development-Board-UnoProLogic/dp/B00EYXM56G/ref=lp_7935068011_1_1?srs=7935068011&ie=UTF8&qid=1494074362&sr=8-1

[up8051]

Check the tools quality and license terms , before wasting time and money on this board

Did you have bad experience with Microsemi Software?
M2S025 is supported by free Libero Version.

1 cent is not much money   

Regards
up8051

[NorthGuy]

If I were to buy an introductory board, I would go for something like this:

http://store.digilentinc.com/cmod-a7-breadboardable-artix-7-fpga-module/

It may be a little more expensive than others, but it has a good FPGA, it is easy to connect to whatever you want, and IMHO it doesn't need anything else.

[ebclr]

I guess a real free Libero Version does not exist, They call free but is time limited, and very few IP are provided on those licenses,

Evaluation   60 days

Silver 1 year

Also if you had experience with Altera and Xilinx tools, the customer experience if very poor on Libero

I was very excited with Microsemi SmartFusion2, but after reading the license terms and playing a little with Libero, I quick returned to Altera / Xilinx / Lattice where I fell better served

[BrianHG]

Cheap and nice board for newcomers to FPGA world

http://www.earthpeopletechnology.com/?wpsc-product=ept-570-ap-u2-usbpld-development-system-for-the-arduino-uno

https://www.amazon.com/Altera-CPLD-Development-Board-UnoProLogic/dp/B00EYXM56G/ref=lp_7935068011_1_1?srs=7935068011&ie=UTF8&qid=1494074362&sr=8-1

Prices are dropping.  6 years ago, anything FPGA would have been at least 200$, for the IC I was using, with DDR2/3 ram modules, EP3C55-6 altera FPGA, we are talking at least 750$ range easy.

[ebclr]

Why are you comparing MCU IDE/toolchain with FPGA, those are  2 totally different animals, FPGA isn't a microprocessor ( can be if you want, but isn't the big deal ). If you wanna do anything cool in FPGA forget sequential things and start making everything in parallel.

[nctnico]

it would require fixed pin mappings on the fpga and you would not be able to add your own logic. the bitstream is irellevant.

Yeah, we need Arduino model, where the interface remains the same between different development kits. Shields will be plugged in as required.

we do NOT need arduino model ! the beauty of an fpga is that you can assign any function to any pin !
[/quote]
True but having an example which works on an easy to use board makes a lot of difference. I find it easier to start from an existing design which works and then work towards my own design step-by-step than having to do everything from scratch with many things which can go wrong.

[NorthGuy]

True but having an example which works on an easy to use board makes a lot of difference. I find it easier to start from an existing design which works and then work towards my own design step-by-step than having to do everything from scratch with many things which can go wrong.

This is a question of preference. I find it easier to do everything step-by-step from scratch. This gives me more freedom. The start, of course will be slow and will require work, but once started, everything will fly.

[jefflieu]

The problem is that none of the stuff other than the compiler toolchains for the soft cores are really open source so you're basically stuck with the development tools "as provided" by the FPGA vendor.  That said they're often VERY scriptable by TCL or whatever so you're absolutely free to never use their IDEs for the most part and drive the tools from the command line.

Yeah, I kind of agree. Speaking about this, I'm also annoyed by their expensive programming cable as well.

Why are you comparing MCU IDE/toolchain with FPGA, those are  2 totally different animals, FPGA isn't a microprocessor ( can be if you want, but isn't the big deal ). If you wanna do anything cool in FPGA forget sequential things and start making everything in parallel.

I'm not comparing them directly. I'm just a believer in FPGA and FPGA-based processor. I think FPGA-based micro controller could be as popular in hobbyists world as the Arduino. A $50 FPGA board can be really versatile, you can have your own logic to drive custom hardware or if you're more familiar with microcontroller and C language, just configure it as one and customise the peripherals.
But reality is FPGA-based embedded system is not so popular.
So I was trying to find out if I believe in the right thing, and if the reason is setting up of hardware part. 

Put it another way. If I sell a $50 FPGA board that is preconfigured with microprocessors system, to save you time and effort of setting up the hardware, would you consider it instead of hard micro controller. Would FPGA-based embedded system be more popular that way, if it is marketed as a customisable microcontroller kit?
If the true reason is cost, then there wouldn't be any difference

Thanks!

[renewin]

I'm thinking of a collection of pre-verified FPGA-based embedded system binaries (NIOS/MICROBLAZE) where people can just download (the hardware definition file  and the bit file) and and start C/C++ coding straight away.

Why not just use a raspberry pi zero?, if you want to code C/C++ an FPGA is most likely not the right tool, besides the rasp zero is 5-10$ and FPGA is easily 50-100$.

[nctnico]

I'm thinking of a collection of pre-verified FPGA-based embedded system binaries (NIOS/MICROBLAZE) where people can just download (the hardware definition file  and the bit file) and and start C/C++ coding straight away.

Why not just use a raspberry pi zero?, if you want to code C/C++ an FPGA is most likely not the right tool, besides the rasp zero is 5-10$ and FPGA is easily 50-100$.

It is not about price (and the Rpi isn't a good solution for every situation). You can do a lot of interesting things if you have a softcore inside an FPGA because you can define your own peripherals and hardware accellerators. IMHO it is much easier to get going from a simple and well structured example.

[GeorgeOfTheJungle]

In fact the RPis are the worst of all these fruit sbcs.