Author Topic: About LoRa, 868Mhz 915Mhz public wireless network communication for IoT.  (Read 2761 times)

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Offline Galenbo

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I saw our local Mobile data provider rolled out the Lora network, low-energy wireless sensor communication for low MB/s, Range 2.5-15 Km.

The battery powered autonomous sensors modules should last 1-5 years, and seem to already exist.

http://www.proximus.be/en/id_cl_iot/companies-and-government/products-and-services/internet-and-networks/internet-of-things.html
http://www.rfwireless-world.com/Terminology/LoRa-technology-basics.html
http://www.embedded.com/electronics-products/electronic-product-reviews/connectivity/4437556/Libelium-adds-extreme-range-wireless-connectivity-to-Waspmote-IoT-sensors

http://www.semtech.com/wireless-rf/rf-transceivers/sx1272/
https://www.cooking-hacks.com/documentation/tutorials/waspmote
http://www.exp-tech.de/expcatalog/manufacturer/view/id/48/



What are your expieriences with this? Did you get it running?



Quote
Features

Ultra low power (0.7uA)
100+ Sensors available
16 Radio Technologies:
Long range: 3G / GPRS / LoRa / Sigfox / 868 / 900MHz
Medium range: ZigBee / 802.15.4 / WiFi
Short range: RFID / NFC / Bluetooth 4.0
Over the Air Programming (OTA)
Encryption Libraries (AES, RSA)
Encapsulated line available
Industrial Protocolos: RS-232, RS-485, Modbus, CAN Bus, 4-20mA

« Last Edit: October 23, 2015, 08:07:16 PM by Galenbo »
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Offline autobot

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Re: About LoRa, 868Mhz 915Mhz public wireless network communication for IoT.
« Reply #1 on: October 24, 2015, 01:34:20 AM »
no experience with it, just heard good thing. But i know there are some mbed boards + libraries supporting it at the mbed site.
 

Offline Rasz

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Offline Galenbo

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Re: About LoRa, 868Mhz 915Mhz public wireless network communication for IoT.
« Reply #3 on: October 25, 2015, 12:47:52 AM »
I can't find monthly or yearly prices anywhere.
I hope they will be a lot cheaper than the mobile data communication yearly minimum price

How is identification done? A unique serial into the chip that has to be added in an online fleet management?
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Offline TerminalJack505

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Re: About LoRa, 868Mhz 915Mhz public wireless network communication for IoT.
« Reply #4 on: October 25, 2015, 02:33:07 AM »
We've been evaluating LoRa where I work.  I've played around with Link Labs' and Multitech's LoRa modules.

The best range we have seen is 3.5 miles (5.6km.)  The data rate is basically similar to a 300 baud modem.  Maybe even slower.  There is considerable latency as well.  It can take around 4 to 15 seconds to send a small packet and get a reply. 

My experience has been that a person shouldn't believe any of the more outrageous banner specs regarding range or data rates.  Those are truly pie-in-the-sky and they can't be achieved in the real world. 

The range is primarily limited due to the fact that the networks are using an ISM band (915MHz, here in the US.)  The data rates suffer due to the fact that you basically have to trade bandwidth to get longer range.

I don't know what pricing is going to be like for public LoRa networks--we are planning on using private networks--but I seem to remember a number in the ballpark of about $20 a year per node, perhaps even less than $1 per month per node for higher volumes.
 

Offline autobot

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Re: About LoRa, 868Mhz 915Mhz public wireless network communication for IoT.
« Reply #5 on: October 25, 2015, 12:30:16 PM »
Archos is talking about deploying a lot of LORA mini-basestations  in europe (200K) , and for client , subscription fees would be $2/year for the low end.

http://www.telecompaper.com/news/archos-plans-picowan-smartplug-based-lora-network--1106399
 

Offline free_electron

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Re: About LoRa, 868Mhz 915Mhz public wireless network communication for IoT.
« Reply #6 on: November 06, 2015, 07:41:07 AM »
You want to hop on the SigFox USM network. Tons of silicon is ready , the network is rolled out in many countries and more are coming online every day.
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Online splin

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Re: About LoRa, 868Mhz 915Mhz public wireless network communication for IoT.
« Reply #7 on: November 06, 2015, 10:06:01 AM »
Archos is talking about deploying a lot of LORA mini-basestations  in europe (200K) , and for client , subscription fees would be $2/year for the low end.

http://www.telecompaper.com/news/archos-plans-picowan-smartplug-based-lora-network--1106399

And with others entering the market, how long before the ISM band is saturated to the point that it becomes useless for everyone? There are duty cycle limits which aren't so much a problem for clients with low data throughput but because of the long range, the basestations will potentially see a lot of clients of their own, their competitors clients and basestations and other private networks - eg. smart meter reading, pet and child monitoring systems etc. And there are other existing users of the ISM bands including fire alarms, security systems etc. to add to the problem.

Duty cycle limits vary but 1% is typical meaning potentially that with say 6 channels, 600 radios could saturate the band. In practice the actual number would likely be far less due to frequent collisions. Perhaps these public networks will place very low duty cycles restrictions on clients to reduce the problem but there is nothing to stop private networks being installed which want to maximize their throuhputs.

In the European 868MHz ISM band the duty cycle limits can be avoided by the use of 'listen before talk' and 'adaptive frequency agility', but I don't know how well they would work with potentially hundreds of nodes competing for access. Badly I would expect.

There aren't many channels available in the 868MHz band in Europe for the wideband Lora modulation and the very low data rate means that even short messages are on air for a relatively long time.

Wifi congestion is a serious problem in many places but WIFI has very short range in comparison. My guess is that it could all fall apart very quickly when they start to get rolled out in earnest, unless rather more spectrum, is released - unlikely.
 

Offline LabSpokane

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Re: About LoRa, 868Mhz 915Mhz public wireless network communication for IoT.
« Reply #8 on: November 06, 2015, 11:27:16 AM »
Archos is talking about deploying a lot of LORA mini-basestations  in europe (200K) , and for client , subscription fees would be $2/year for the low end.

http://www.telecompaper.com/news/archos-plans-picowan-smartplug-based-lora-network--1106399

And with others entering the market, how long before the ISM band is saturated to the point that it becomes useless for everyone?

ISM band congestion has *already* been a major problem for years here in the US due to smart metering deployments and the oil and gas industry. 
 

Offline jav

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Re: About LoRa, 868Mhz 915Mhz public wireless network communication for IoT.
« Reply #9 on: November 06, 2015, 07:16:34 PM »
Sigfox prices are based on the number of messages allowed per device per day.

Rates go from 2 upstream messages (12 bytes each) per day at around 1 USD per month per device up to 140 upstream and 4 downstream (8 bytes each).
 

Offline Galenbo

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Re: About LoRa, 868Mhz 915Mhz public wireless network communication for IoT.
« Reply #10 on: November 06, 2015, 07:52:49 PM »
Archos is talking about deploying a lot of LORA mini-basestations  in europe (200K) , and for client , subscription fees would be $2/year for the low end.

I hope it will be in the price range you tell, $2/year per "IP address" could be nice.
This way, devices like GPS theft trackers become really possible, at the moment an insurance is much cheaper than putting this on the whole machine fleet.

Sigfox prices are based on the number of messages allowed per device per day.

Rates go from 2 upstream messages (12 bytes each) per day at around 1 USD per month per device up to 140 upstream and 4 downstream (8 bytes each).
I hope they keep offering subscriptions with a datalimit expressed in bytes/day, so prices can stay cheap and dataintensive applications stay out of the total mass.

Another thing I hope for, is that it will be easy to put a node up myself. (or cheap to buy/rent one and easy/fast to install)
In places where's no reach, like floor -7 of my own building, I connect a node to the wired router, bolt to the wall and it works.

 
 
« Last Edit: November 06, 2015, 07:55:13 PM by Galenbo »
If you try and take a cat apart to see how it works, the first thing you have on your hands is a nonworking cat.
 


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