Difference between Pickits

[Bruce Abbott]

You cannot program much with PK2 though, mostly older obsolete parts.

Because any PIC introduced more than 18 months ago is obsolete. 

PICKit2 Device file 1.63.148  - supported devices

PICkit 2 Device Data File Editor

The program is generally only useful for adding new parts not currently supported by the devicefile bundled with the PICKit 2. The process, after opening the devicefile, is simply to choose an existing PIC from the list of devices, right click on it and select Duplicate Item. There will now be a copy of the part you selected. Change the properties of the new part, including the part name, to appropriate values for the new part. Then save the file and you're done.

[NorthGuy]

PICkit 2 Device Data File Editor

The program is generally only useful for adding new parts not currently supported by the devicefile bundled with the PICKit 2. The process, after opening the devicefile, is simply to choose an existing PIC from the list of devices, right click on it and select Duplicate Item. There will now be a copy of the part you selected. Change the properties of the new part, including the part name, to appropriate values for the new part. Then save the file and you're done.

Except that many new parts use different programming algorithms which are not known to PK2. There's no similar "existing devices" which you could choose.

[daflory]

Pickit 3's are weird. I remember MPLABX wouldn't recognize mine at first and I thought it was DOA. It only came to life once I flashed it using MPLAB version 8.92.

Also because those without serial number are probably not going to work anymore. I have a clone, i can use it only on older versions on a windows machine. On a mac it's almost impossible to make it go
I also have a genuine so screw it.

The only real issue with the pickit 3, in my opinion, is the target power supply. It's nowhere as good as with the pickit 2. Granted, you can go much lower in voltage but you can't supply 5 volts on anything that isn't mid-range, you will get an error that the read target voltage doesn't correspond to the set voltage so i have to go down to a freaking 2.8V to power the chip i have to program without getting errors.

It's not the usb voltage. it's not the target current consumption. It's in the pickit 3. Besides that, i don't care for programming eeprom, or the logic analyzer, i care about a more powerful debugger and a much higher programming speed.

Have you tried using a USB 3.0 or high current USB port? I haven't had trouble (yet) with powering 5V circuits with the pickit 3, but I was using my Thinkpad's high-current/charging port.

[nForce]

How do you program AVR now? Link?

page 20
http://download.savannah.gnu.org/releases/avrdude/avrdude-doc-6.3.pdf

What about programming AVR with this: http://www.ebay.com/itm/USBASP-USBISP-AVR-Programmer-Adapter-10-Pin-Cable-USB-ATMEGA8-ATMEGA128-Arduino-/310506909410?hash=item484ba76ee2:g:ZWQAAOSw-KFXehMl

It's cheaper then pickit.

[stj]

that's what i use,
but that wasnt what i was asked was it, i was asked how to program an avr with a pk2.

[VEGETA]

How do you program AVR now? Link?

page 20
http://download.savannah.gnu.org/releases/avrdude/avrdude-doc-6.3.pdf

What about programming AVR with this: http://www.ebay.com/itm/USBASP-USBISP-AVR-Programmer-Adapter-10-Pin-Cable-USB-ATMEGA8-ATMEGA128-Arduino-/310506909410?hash=item484ba76ee2:g:ZWQAAOSw-KFXehMl

It's cheaper then pickit.

This device is good and I bought one to copy some firmware. Do you use it on official avr tools?

[stj]

i dont use "official avr tools", they only run on the devil's operating system - and i only use Linux. 

i use it with AVRdude - that is by coincidence the best avr programming soft anyway!

[nForce]

AVRdude is just a programer, what do you use for debugging and coding?

[stj]

gcc and a text editor.
i do it oldschool!

[nForce]

But with gcc, you can't realtime debug program on a chip.

[stj]

i have never needed to, my only errors have always thrown a compiler error

[Bruce Abbott]

Except that many new parts use different programming algorithms which are not known to PK2.

Can you give some examples? I need to know which new parts to avoid!

[daflory]

Except that many new parts use different programming algorithms which are not known to PK2.

Can you give some examples? I need to know which new parts to avoid!

If you have MPLABX installed, you can set up a program for whatever PIC and when you get to debugging options it will show a red bullet by any debugger that won't work. This will often include the Pickit2 unless the microcontroller is a fairly old classic. If the bullet mark is yellow then it should work but isn't guaranteed, and green means tested/working.

[NorthGuy]

Except that many new parts use different programming algorithms which are not known to PK2.

Can you give some examples? I need to know which new parts to avoid!

From 8-bit ones:

PIC16F153xx
PIC16F188xx
PIC16F191xx
PIC18FxxK4x

These are good parts, especially PIC18FxxK42 is very promising. You may consider getting PK3 instead of avoiding them.

[stj]

the chinese clones are so cheap you could just get both - and a USBasp - then you have the full set 

[nForce]

I am looking now for these cheap AVRASP programmers.

What is the difference between these two:

https://www.banggood.com/3_3V-5V-USBASP-USBISP-AVR-Programmer-Downloader-ATMEGA8-ATMEGA128-With-Download-Cable-p-1179967.html?rmmds=search&cur_warehouse=CN

And the cheaper one:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/USBASP-USBISP-AVR-Programmer-Adapter-10-Pin-Cable-USB-ATMEGA8-ATMEGA128-Arduino/310506909410?epid=1168759813&hash=item484ba76ee2:g:yJQAAOSwrqlZhZ4S

1) So the first one supports 3.3V and 5V, the second one does not? Which voltage levels are using Atmel chips?
2) So both are for programming ATMEGA8 and ATMEGA128, what about others? What does it even mean 8 and 128?
3) Which microcontroller is using Arduino uno? The old ones and newer?

Thanks for answering my questions. 

[stj]

1: atmel chips run at 5v, unless they end in "L" and then you can run them lower - but the maximum clock speed is reduced.

2: read the datasheets,

3: arduino-uno uses ATMEGA328 afaik.

[westfw]

atmel chips run at 5v, unless they end in "L" and then you can run them lower

Older Atmel chips had separate versions ("L" or "V") for low voltage operation.   Newer Atmel chips (anything with "PicoPower"(?), which includes the ATmega328p used in most Arduinos) run from 1.8 to 5.5V using the same chip.   You still have the max clock decrease as voltage goes down.

[nForce]

Ok, thanks. But no one answered what is the difference between those two products, one from banggood and other from ebay.

[stj]

nothing - look at the pictures.

[bd139]

Random replies:

1. What's the difference? None - they're all pretty much the same.
2. What does 8/128 mean? They are difference devices. Look at the data sheets.
3. Which uC does the Arduino use? Various depending on where you buy them from.

Best approach I have found for AVR on a budget is:

1. Buy a cheap USBasp, doesn't matter where from. Stick some tape over the LED on it or it'll burn your eyes out.
2. Buy a cheap Arduino Pro mini board. 5v model. These have an ATMEGA328P which is quite a hefty device. It has the uC, crystal and reset circuit canned on it already.
3. Wire it up according to the various instructions on the Internet. I include a picture of my dev rig for these below for the sake of inspiration. Instructions I used are here: https://www.bitsbox.co.uk/index.php?main_page=page&id=24&pos=v&chapter=20#
4. If you're on windows, follow these instructions to get the right driver: https://rlogiacco.wordpress.com/2016/09/01/usbasp-windows-10/
5. You can write your code in Arduino IDE (yuck) or AVR-GCC something else to program it. I am using the latter using Windows Subsystem for Linux on windows and then programming it with eXtreme Burner.
6. If you use the Arduino UI: (1) set target device to ATMEGA328P 16MHz 5V (2) set target programmer to USPasp (3) load the blink sketch example (4) use Sketch -> Upload using programmer (normal upload wont work with USBasp as that requires an arduino bootloader).



This is an in development RF power meter.

If you want to use a PIC, use PICkit3 with an in circuit target. That plus MPLAB X is a much better environment if you ask me if you want to work in assembly. If you want C, then the AVR is better. I tend to use PICs (12/16 series) for noddy tasks like replacing bits of logic and AVRs for computational and more complex tasks mainly because it's pretty easy to look inside the arduino library source code and nick bits of code for controlling LCDs etc.