Author Topic: draft: GDB-stub goes to vhdl, how good is this idea ?  (Read 10364 times)

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Offline ataradov

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Re: draft: GDB-stub goes to vhdl, how good is this idea ?
« Reply #25 on: January 01, 2016, 01:53:18 am »
It sounds you are kidding
We are on different sides of the industry :) I'm talking about MCU vendors, not people who use MCUs.

In first place, do really use gdb for serious job-tasks?
Of course not. I do use GCC toolchain and very happy with it, would not change it for any other even if some one else pays. Well, maybe IAR, but I do hate Keil.

I don't use debuggers much. I'm pretty happy with other ways of debugging.
Alex
 

Offline nctnico

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Re: draft: GDB-stub goes to vhdl, how good is this idea ?
« Reply #26 on: January 01, 2016, 02:05:16 am »
JTAG transfer get screwed up beyond recovery.
There is no way to screwup JTAG interface itself. Particular transaction will be gone, of course, but software can always recover. That's one of the design objectives.
Yes, but unfortunately the recovery part is always forgotten in the software  :palm:
There are small lies, big lies and then there is what is on the screen of your oscilloscope.
 

Offline ataradov

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Re: draft: GDB-stub goes to vhdl, how good is this idea ?
« Reply #27 on: January 01, 2016, 02:05:59 am »
Yes, but unfortunately the recovery part is always forgotten in the software  :palm:
Could not agree more :)
Alex
 

Offline legacyTopic starter

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Re: draft: GDB-stub goes to vhdl, how good is this idea ?
« Reply #28 on: January 01, 2016, 02:14:34 am »
I do use GCC toolchain and very happy with it

I hate gcc and everything comes from GNU (including emacs and gdb), in first place G-boys& their friends are not good programmers, these dudes too often do "jerk child code" with too much complexity, which is too ugly to be supported (pay me to see their sources, I am horrified)

I am a gentoo/MIPS supporter, I have a lot of troubles with gcc, e.g. just to tell you the last maleficent, I am supporting an old SGI machine and I had to switch to gcc 5.2, which is currently "experimental" (it means not included in the gentoo portage, the last available is gcc v4.9), because the atomic-functions were not working as expected for R12K CPUs :palm: :palm: :palm: :palm:

in short the whole SMP, and the whole userland, was crashing up and I needed a lot of pills because the compiler is a @#@$@ crap!

I have fixed the jam just switching to v5.2 (which means ... opening an overlay, invoking crossdev, forcing a new cross compiler, fixing it ... 5 days of over work and blasphemy) and recompiling everything in the right way: I have now a working SMP plus a working uclibc-stage4, I am completed, but … I still HATE their compiler!

Have you ever seen inside gcc source code ? My friend's softcore does not handle unaligned memory access, so I had to manually patch gcc to force it to avoid unaligned memory access, it's a piece of cake with LLVM, while it was a nightmare with gcc!!! It took 8 days of blasphemy!

and do I have to tell you what happened with gcc v4.1 on HPPA v2 ? I remember when applications compiled by gcc -O2 took their branches (if (condition) then else) in randomly way because the compiler had a bug! It took 3 month of blasphemy, because I was not sure that the problem was the compiler (I was used to trust it, so I was looking into different direction, including hardware failures in ram)


in short, don't say "gcc" for job-tasks  :D


I do hate Keil.

I hate their IDE, but everything else (including their support and assistance) is more than comfortable (and they are very kind on the phone)
 

Offline ataradov

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Re: draft: GDB-stub goes to vhdl, how good is this idea ?
« Reply #29 on: January 01, 2016, 02:29:00 am »
I am a gentoo/MIPS supporter
Here is your problem :)

I would not want to go into the guts of GCC. Well, I had to a few times for AVR, and I did not enjoy it.

That's why I use ARM. They actually maintain official toolchain, that always works and always up to date and available for variety of platforms. Never had any problems with it and if ARM engineers suffer to make it work, I feel for them, but it is not my problem.

I hope Clang/LLVM get up to speed soon on all major platforms, not just x86.
Alex
 

Offline nctnico

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Re: draft: GDB-stub goes to vhdl, how good is this idea ?
« Reply #30 on: January 01, 2016, 02:55:04 am »
Using anything for a less common platform is going to land you in a world of pain due to lack of support. That is not GCC's fault! I have used GCC in the past on a MIPS based Linux platform but I didn't had any problems with the GCC compiler.
There are small lies, big lies and then there is what is on the screen of your oscilloscope.
 

Offline legacyTopic starter

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Re: draft: GDB-stub goes to vhdl, how good is this idea ?
« Reply #31 on: January 01, 2016, 11:09:40 am »
Which System and Which Work, buddy ?

if you mean, I got the last trunk from OpenWRT and then I built a kernel+rootfs for the last router
well, sure, it works out of the box, but it's not the point!!!
the point is: do you know how hard was the effort under the hood in order to get this purpose?

...
edit: details removed
...


the point with gcc: an easy task too often comes into troubles, which requires too much effort to be solved!
« Last Edit: January 01, 2016, 09:43:47 pm by legacy »
 

Offline ataradov

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Re: draft: GDB-stub goes to vhdl, how good is this idea ?
« Reply #32 on: January 01, 2016, 11:34:22 am »
Stop whining and create a better compiler, what stops you?

Unlike you, "G-Boys" have created a compiler that is used in a lot of machines, and at the moment it is the best we have, even if it is not pretty.

If you hate it so much, don't work with it, leave it alone.
Alex
 

Offline nctnico

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Re: draft: GDB-stub goes to vhdl, how good is this idea ?
« Reply #33 on: January 01, 2016, 11:35:34 am »
MIPS based Linux platform but I didn't had any problems with the GCC compiler.

Which System and Which Work, buddy ?

if you mean, I got the last trunk from OpenWRT and then I built a kernel+rootfs for the last router
well, sure, it works out of the box, but it's not the point !!!
the point is: do you know how hard was the effort under the hood in order to get this purpose?
Yes. That is a world of pain which is why you shouldn't drift away from the beaten path  O0 IIRC the system I worked on had a MIP32 core. The systems you are writing about are very archaic so it might be better to stick to old versions of GCC which work for those.
There are small lies, big lies and then there is what is on the screen of your oscilloscope.
 

Offline legacyTopic starter

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Re: draft: GDB-stub goes to vhdl, how good is this idea ?
« Reply #34 on: January 01, 2016, 04:32:51 pm »
so it might be better to stick to old versions of GCC which work for those.

yes, absolutely :D
 

Offline helius

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Re: draft: GDB-stub goes to vhdl, how good is this idea ?
« Reply #35 on: January 01, 2016, 05:52:40 pm »
Even GNU developers have decided that GCC is doomed.
https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/emacs-devel/2015-02/msg00457.html
 


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