Author Topic: Intel stops development and sales of Edison, Galileo and Joule  (Read 11634 times)

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Offline janoc

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Re: Intel stops development and sales of Edison, Galileo and Joule
« Reply #25 on: June 20, 2017, 08:12:11 am »
The niche of Intel Joule is the capability of running Windows, and the power of Windows is you can develop on one computer, and run on another one with no libraries or whatsoever installed. Just copy and paste, no apt-get, no ldconfig.

That's actually the problem. A lot of people believed exactly this - and then they discovered that that "full Windows" is in fact Windows 10 IoT Core - which doesn't even have a gui and many standard APIs don't work there because it is a Windows UWP platform, not normal "desktop" Win32. A totally locked down sandbox using its own incompatible set of APIs. Essentially what the Hololens is running. Standard "desktop" Windows doesn't run on it and neither do standard applications (not even .NET stuff unless it is specifically targeting UWP). For all practical needs and purposes it is a completely different OS (think Windows Phone vs. normal Windows).

It is the same idiocy as to what Microsoft did with their Windows RT - there they have also claimed that it "runs Windows" so everyone expected their Windows applications to work on it. Except they didn't - ARM CPUs, totally locked down system.

If you have to deal with UWP and port/write everything from scratch, you can run Linux as well - and then Joule has no advantage over the common ARM boards. You even have to cross-compile, either for ARM or Windows, because apps for UWP need to be built in a special way, you certainly can't just "copy & paste" (first hand experience building apps for Hololens here ...).

This is pretty much a "me too" effort from Microsoft and Intel so that they can claim in their marketing that they are supporting the IoT that nobody has bought into, apart from a few very niche applications.








« Last Edit: June 20, 2017, 08:18:02 am by janoc »
 

Offline Jeroen3

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Re: Intel stops development and sales of Edison, Galileo and Joule
« Reply #26 on: June 20, 2017, 09:50:04 am »
...
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Another benefit even for Linux is that those x86 boards can run any distribution designed for computers. I don't have to f* around with yocto or use an ARM distribution. I can use whatever I have, and develop just like for native.

If you run only simple C programs or shell scripts, this may not be so important. But if you run programs depending on platform specific features (poorly implemented byte manipulations, closed source binary blobs, assembly code, etc.), x86 is sometimes the only cheap option.
...
You've described there, a legacy codebase in corporate environment. Again, not where these boards were targeted for.
 

Offline CJay

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Re: Intel stops development and sales of Edison, Galileo and Joule
« Reply #27 on: June 20, 2017, 10:58:14 am »
controller for a quadcopter, something that could be done and done pretty well with a $10 Arduino clone.

Arduino itself has always been embarrassing example of shitty marketing, things for people full of ignorance which believe they make their personal RoboGundam in their garage just asking for a few tricks on forums and with a couple of bucks for budget ... but those intel-boards were even worse.

A true epic fail. I am not surprised. It was just a matter of time.

I'm no Arduino fan but it was intended as a maker platform with minimal coding so I'd not expect much more than that from it or the users, it's a nice gateway introduction I think but as you say, it's not really up to the high end stuff that the Edison etc. is and they require an *awful* lot more knowledge and skill to use effectively.

 

Offline bitwelder

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Re: Intel stops development and sales of Edison, Galileo and Joule
« Reply #28 on: June 20, 2017, 01:22:16 pm »
Marketing error. They should have named the board Tesla, not Edison.
:-DD
 
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Offline legacy

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Re: Intel stops development and sales of Edison, Galileo and Joule
« Reply #29 on: June 20, 2017, 03:37:32 pm »
Marketing error. They should have named the board Tesla, not Edison.
:-DD

LOL  :D :D :D
 

Offline janoc

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Re: Intel stops development and sales of Edison, Galileo and Joule
« Reply #30 on: June 20, 2017, 07:41:41 pm »
I've never tried to install a full Windows on Joule, but I can install a full desktop Ubuntu, and from previous experience with Intel E3815 board and Intel E645C boards (customized boards for Intel Embedded Design Cup in China, hosted by Intel and Chinese Ministry of Education), I don't think a full Windows installation on Joule is impossible.

Actually on E3815 board from Intel, I was able to run some demanding games like Need for Speed 19 (2012) at lowest settings.

Big difference - Ubuntu is officially supported on that machine by Intel. Windows  (the non-UWP one) is not. So even if you somehow managed to get it work despite the lack of driver support, you would be running a totally unsupported OS with no source code access, so you can't even fix problems yourself. Really great platform to base a product on.

 

Offline janoc

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Re: Intel stops development and sales of Edison, Galileo and Joule
« Reply #31 on: June 21, 2017, 08:15:58 pm »
But for one off projects, it's a great way of migrating your desktop program to an embedded platform.
|O Which part of the "it is a Windows UWP platform" did you not understand?

Unless your desktop program is an UWP application already (which apart from a few "Metro" apps and some games that target also Xbox pretty much none are), you can't migrate it to the Joule. You can't even recompile it, because the APIs are totally different. Even basic stuff like opening and reading a file uses different functions when working in the UWP sandbox, the usual ones will not compile.

So your "migration" becomes a rewrite/port. I fail to see a benefit of doing that vs. doing it to an actually supported ARM platform instead.

Or are you still going about the hypothetical desktop Windows 10 install on it that nobody has managed so far? Not for lack of trying, though:
https://communities.intel.com/thread/113677

If you really want Windows on an SBC, despite the limited RAM and weak CPUs that will make it run like molasses, there is Latte Panda with very similar specs to Joule:
http://makezine.com/2016/08/18/lattepanda-puts-windows-10-on-a-single-board-computer/

And costs $80 ...

« Last Edit: June 21, 2017, 08:25:48 pm by janoc »
 

Offline janoc

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Re: Intel stops development and sales of Edison, Galileo and Joule
« Reply #32 on: June 21, 2017, 08:29:59 pm »
I code under Linux. I install exactly the same distribution and version of Ubuntu (no, not snappy core) on both, and code on my desktop, copy the binary to Joule.

That's a pretty limited use case, especially given the price and the hassle with the Joule. Cross-compiling for ARM is not that hard to set up, neither are various virtual machines. E.g. a premade setup for RPi:
https://forum.openframeworks.cc/t/pre-built-environment-for-raspberry-pi-cross-compiling-and-nfs-booting/16206

 

Offline janoc

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Re: Intel stops development and sales of Edison, Galileo and Joule
« Reply #33 on: June 22, 2017, 09:03:52 am »
I know. I work with Yocto too (on iMX6 ULL), let along RPi cross compiling. I'm just lazy, and since it's funding money, not my private money -- the more time I can save, the better I feel, and the better my boss feels. Cost is put aside as the embedded system costs next to nothing in out system.

Fair enough, but that's a very specific situation. I somehow doubt Intel has created the board only for this purpose :)
 

Offline anovickis

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Re: Intel stops development and sales of Edison, Galileo and Joule
« Reply #34 on: July 17, 2017, 10:53:44 pm »
It seems Intel isn't even going to do a last production run to fullfill all orders. They just sell what they have and when stock runs out it is bad luck for the customer.

Likely there were no orders, hence no need for that
 


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