Need to program some PIC16C745

[frog_jr]

A client just revived a project that contains a PIC16C745-I/SO and asked if I could help.
I have an antique PICStart Plus Development System, but it needs to be upgraded with the (obsolete) PICStart Plus Programmer Processor Upgrade Kit in order to handle the OTP 16C745's.

I need about 20 devices programmed and all of my normal sources will only program a few (~10) devices or large runs.

So...
Does anyone know where I can get these programmed, or know where I can get the upgrade kit?
(I really can't justify making the client pay for a MPLAB PM3 and the programming adapter.)

Thanks

[amyk]

I need about 20 devices programmed and all of my normal sources will only program a few (~10) devices or large runs.

Repeat "program a few (~10) devices" as many times as you need?

[picandmix]

Hi,
What about one of these , they state it programs that chip.
https://www.banggood.com/Wholesale-K150-ICSP-USB-PIC-Automatic-Programing-Develop-Microcontroller-Programmer-p-43254.html?gmcCountry=GB&currency=GBP&createTmp=1&utm_source=googleshopping&utm_medium=cpc_elc&utm_content=zouzou&utm_campaign=pla-uk-ele-pc&gclid=EAIaIQobChMI_627-7L_2AIVB0kZCh3iqgNcEAkYASABEgLntfD_BwE&cur_warehouse=CN

[frog_jr]

Was hoping for a faster solution than three week shipping; however, I ordered one and if no other solutions are forthcoming, will see if it really does the job when it arrives...

(Fortunately, I already have a DIP to SOIC adapter on hand. )

[Ian.M]

MicrochipDirect still offer a programming service for that part.   There's a one-off setup fee per project (HEX file), then order as many as you need preprogrammed.   I'd bet on the setup fee being cheaper than sourcing a second hand upgraded PICStart Plus or upgrade kit, so unless you need to rewrite the firmware, its probably best to order them preprogrammed.

If you do need to rewrite the firmware it will be a a total P.I.T.A, due to the use of a SMD OTP part, unless you can source a couple of second hand PIC16C745-I/JW  (that's the windowed CERDIP UV erasable version), a compatible programmer, UV eraser, and make up an adapter from a DIL ZIF socket down to the SOIC footprint on the board.   You'll also need the right compiler (unless the source was in MPASM assembler), which may be problematic - especially getting it licensed to remove code size or optimisation limits so it can fit the code in the chip!  Unless all you need is a really minor change to the code, it may be preferable to rewrite the project to run on a PIC18F25K50, using the current XC8 compiler and USB stack.

[macboy]

MiniPro a.k.a. TL866CS or TL866A will program this and many other old PICs not supported by newer tools that only handle FLASH ICSP based devices.  This cheap universal programmer is really worth having around.

[TechieTX]

Hi,
What about one of these , they state it programs that chip.
www.banggood.com/Wholesale-K150-ICSP-USB-PIC-Automatic-Programing-Develop-Microcontroller-Programmer-p-43254.html

Don't buy that one, it's non-functional.  I'm the guy that wrote the scathing review of it on that page.  What I didn't note in the review is that the DIPs are soldered in, and the 16F628A has WEIRD OLD FIRMWARE in it.  In order to make it work, you'll have to cut a shorted trace, and then cut pin 4 on the micro and ICSP the final DIYpack25ep firmware into the 16F628A.  Dunno what it came loaded with, but microbrn reported a protocol of "ÿÿÿÿ" (which won't do you any good).  I tried to unsolder the micro and wasn't successful; my >20-year-old Silverstat Soldapullit couldn't get the holes clean enough to remove the chip without running the risk of damaging the board.  It was less risky to cut pin 4 (VPP on the micro, also connected to the serial chip).  It boggles the mind that they can't even get the freaking firmware right on a clone board that stopped (original) production 10+ years ago.

It's pretty easy to cut the track that shorts out VPP1 and VPP2, but it's insane that it's even there.  Nobody tested that PCB layout.  You can see the scratches elsewhere as I was initially trying to locate the shorted trace.  I certainly didn't expect to find what I saw once I pulled the ICSP header off of the board (the first photo).  If you look REALLY closely, you can just see it with the ICSP header still soldered in (the second photo).

Banggood must have gotten a smoking deal on some scrap boards on Taobao and decided to foist them off on the unsuspecting public.  Their response to my problem report was so pitiful that I decided to stop doing business with them.  At least on eBay it's easy to get your money back if the item is pure trash.

If you're cool with cutting a trace and reprogramming the 16F628A, then $8 isn't a bad price for that programmer.  However, if you NEED that programmer then you might not have a PIC ICSP tool handy, in which case you're up the creek without a paddle.

[frog_jr]

Sure enough TechieTX!
It is exactly as you say. I received the programmer and the software could not recognize it.
I removed the 16F628A, reprogrammed the firmware and re-installed it (in a socket ).
I made the cut, just as you indicated and now it "seems" to work fine.

While I had been waiting for the programmer to arrive an associate loaned me a programmer so I could get those 16C745s programmed.
So now I have a $10 (plus socket and time) programmer for whatever...

Thanks for the info! 

[djnz]

It so happens that I need one to program a PIC 12C device. After some investigation, I have realized the following:

A PicKit 2/3 /4 will not program a 12C673, but the 3rd party K150 will. There are several variations of the K150, but most have a Prolific USB-Serial chip which will not work on newer windows. I found one seller on aliexpress who claims that they are selling a K150 with an FT232 in it. The photos in the listing still show a Prolific chip, but I asked the seller and they confirmed that it has an FT232 and not a Prolific chip. I have ordered one from them, but haven't received it yet.

The item:

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/International-Version-PICPRO-MINI-USB-PIC-Programmer-for-Microchip-PICs-K150-FT232-programmer-usb-cable-ICSP/1727288737.html

[TechieTX]

That Banggood board has the Prolific PL-2303HX on it, so it won't help you djnz.  I'm using it on Win7, and it's been OK once I fixed the craziness that the Chinese did to it.  I need to move to China to show 'em how to copy a simple design properly.

Frog_jr: glad I could save you the $8 you paid for it.  The fact that Banggood is still selling something that I told them (in great detail) couldn't possibly work is why I'm no longer buying from them.  Their first response was "please send a video of the packaging" after I'd already said that the package arrived intact, but the board had an electrical short (and I showed photos of the shorted trace) and wrong firmware in the PIC.  Their next response was "can you fix it on your own?" and I told 'em to go urinate up a rope, I'd do future business with other people.  If a service industry can't provide service, I shop elsewhere.

[Bruce Abbott]

Their next response was "can you fix it on your own?" and I told 'em to go urinate up a rope, I'd do future business with other people.  If a service industry can't provide service, I shop elsewhere.

'Buys ridiculously cheap stuff from China, expects service he (probably wouldn't) get from a local supplier'.

I couldn't even buy the parts to make that programmer for that price, and building one would take hours (time is money!). I would happily pay $8 for that one knowing that it only needs a little fix (thinking of all the times I have been stiffed by 'reputable' local suppliers, after purchasing ridiculously expensive stuff that failed to work properly....).