New PIC32MZ DA

[JPortici]

what do you think an application could be?
internal DDR is functional only in the 0-70°C range. only thing i can think of is some gadget for home automation, not sure if white goods

there is a version WITHOUT the ddr and """"only"""" 640kb of ram though, and the usual EBI and optional DDR controller.

[mikeselectricstuff]

what do you think an application could be?

Anything that needs a lot of RAM - e.g. things like UI controllers where the main requirement is a pretty LCD.
Having DDR onboard means it can probably be done on a 2-layer PCB. if that PCB is behind an LCD, with buttons etc., it will often be quite big just to reach where it needs to, so you don't want the cost of multilayers just to route the RAM.
Small MCUs with large RAM are very rare. Even small displays could make use of it for things like decompressing video animation sequences from SPI flash into RAM and then displaying.
Also applications doing relatively simple things with data from a camera module.
And buffering audio for sound effects etc.
If you are the only company offering an accessible (i.e. documented and easily buyable)  MCU with 32M of RAM, you will find markets.

[julianhigginson]

or, you could use this..... based on a platform that already works, has good board support, and a proper amount of ddr3.
http://octavosystems.com/octavo_products/osd335x/

[technix]

or, you could use this..... based on a platform that already works, has good board support, and a proper amount of ddr3.
http://octavosystems.com/octavo_products/osd335x/

There is a reason why people are keeping the Allwinner R8 (A13), V3s and Microchip AT91SAM9260 chips alive: those are chips that runs Linux without involving BGA package. Now we have PIC32MZ DA in this club.

[julianhigginson]

it's a 1.27mm bga that encapsulates all the hard stuff (ie, ddr3 routing) so you can very likely do it 2 layers (i think that's what the mini mint tin beaglebone project is, but even if not you would romp it in with just 4 layers in a very standard board process, including Ethernet phy) and really, 1.27mm bga is less pain to diy reflow than a large fine pitch qfn part like so many micros seem to be supplied in these days.

and this SOC has a Linux package that works. It's known and tested and just does what you want. I'd solder 1.27mm bgas to simple 4 layer boards all day before committing to make anything work with a buggy incomplete Linux package...

[Sal Ammoniac]

chips that runs Linux without involving BGA package. Now we have PIC32MZ DA in this club.

Just curious--why would you want to run Linux on something like a PIC32?

[brucehoult]

chips that runs Linux without involving BGA package. Now we have PIC32MZ DA in this club.

Just curious--why would you want to run Linux on something like a PIC32?

The same reason you'd want to run Linux on any other MIPS hardware?

[technix]

chips that runs Linux without involving BGA package. Now we have PIC32MZ DA in this club.

Just curious--why would you want to run Linux on something like a PIC32?

The same reasons why tinkerers love Raspberry Pi. A full Linux kernel offers a lot of ease and flexibility in programming.

[julianhigginson]

texhnix and brucehoult:
I think the question was really why run Linux on such an underpowered (and unsupported, unknown quality) target?. not literally just why run on a pic32...

[technix]

texhnix and brucehoult:
I think the question was really why run Linux on such an underpowered (and unsupported, unknown quality) target?. not literally just why run on a pic32...

Then why are you using that home router/DSL modem/wireless AP? These systems have underpowered cores too, while not supported by the latest mainline kernel, and does not have public access to the kernel source code in violation of GPL?

Linux can work on a lot of different platforms. And PIC32MZ DA/EF/EC have mainline kernel support and is actively developed and maintained.

[Sal Ammoniac]

Then why are you using that home router/DSL modem/wireless AP? These systems have underpowered cores too, while not supported by the latest mainline kernel, and does not have public access to the kernel source code in violation of GPL?

I'm not. I don't use underpowered junk like that, even at home.

Just because you can run Linux on something doesn't mean you should.

[technix]

Then why are you using that home router/DSL modem/wireless AP? These systems have underpowered cores too, while not supported by the latest mainline kernel, and does not have public access to the kernel source code in violation of GPL?

I'm not. I don't use underpowered junk like that, even at home.

Just because you can run Linux on something doesn't mean you should.

You don't even use a cable modem, ADSL modem or PON ONU? Do you have a direct fiber interconnect to the ISP's datacenter?

[julianhigginson]

Then why are you using that home router/DSL modem/wireless AP? These systems have underpowered cores too, while not supported by the latest mainline kernel, and does not have public access to the kernel source code in violation of GPL?

Linux can work on a lot of different platforms. And PIC32MZ DA/EF/EC have mainline kernel support and is actively developed and maintained.

I'm using my home router and DSL modem because *someone else* (actually a whole team of someone elses probably working for a long time) went through all the pain of making a half supported hardware with minimal resources work well with a linux kernel and developed a bunch of special purpose driver modules and built an application to do the job and it basically works ok now, and they can sell the product made with cheapest possible hardware globally and finally make a big profit from their massive upfront engineering cost..... so I got it relatively cheap considering, but as part of the cost of owning such a thing I do need to worry that it could be hacked..

But would I develop my own home router with that hardware? no way! I don't have the time or resources. It's just a process I would never choose to go through as one guy when I could spend a bit more money on a better supported, more complete solution that just works and lets me go more or less straight to the application.

Speaking of routers, I really like the idea of one that supports mainline linux, I could configure with some of my own apps if needed (like a VPN gateway!) and would be accessible to regular kernel and driver and system bugfixes... maybe it's makeable at a hobbyist open-source level with this new octavo systems system in package? (or on some other System On Module or even just a small form factor linux board -  a home router doesn't really have *that* much constraint in the way of physical size and power..)

[krho]

or, you could use this..... based on a platform that already works, has good board support, and a proper amount of ddr3.
http://octavosystems.com/octavo_products/osd335x/

Sorry but this is expensive as hell 42$@100pcs Thanks but no thanks.

[technix]

Then why are you using that home router/DSL modem/wireless AP? These systems have underpowered cores too, while not supported by the latest mainline kernel, and does not have public access to the kernel source code in violation of GPL?

Linux can work on a lot of different platforms. And PIC32MZ DA/EF/EC have mainline kernel support and is actively developed and maintained.

I'm using my home router and DSL modem because *someone else* (actually a whole team of someone elses probably working for a long time) went through all the pain of making a half supported hardware with minimal resources work well with a linux kernel and developed a bunch of special purpose driver modules and built an application to do the job and it basically works ok now, and they can sell the product made with cheapest possible hardware globally and finally make a big profit from their massive upfront engineering cost..... so I got it relatively cheap considering, but as part of the cost of owning such a thing I do need to worry that it could be hacked..

But would I develop my own home router with that hardware? no way! I don't have the time or resources. It's just a process I would never choose to go through as one guy when I could spend a bit more money on a better supported, more complete solution that just works and lets me go more or less straight to the application.

Speaking of routers, I really like the idea of one that supports mainline linux, I could configure with some of my own apps if needed (like a VPN gateway!) and would be accessible to regular kernel and driver and system bugfixes... maybe it's makeable at a hobbyist open-source level with this new octavo systems system in package? (or on some other System On Module or even just a small form factor linux board -  a home router doesn't really have *that* much constraint in the way of physical size and power..)

I am using an modded old PC as my home router/NAS combo.

[julianhigginson]

Sorry but this is expensive as hell 42$@100pcs Thanks but no thanks.

I'd rather spend $40 on something that works than hang about with the hope I can one day spend $15 on something that isn't even released yet after years of speculation.    Also check out the specs, this TI part based assembly is orders of magnitude more memory and processing power...

Sorry to say, but unless this thing comes out with full support tomorrow, is damn amazing, doesn't need lots of handholding to put in a system,  and costs $5... I think the PIC32MZ DA is dead....

[julianhigginson]

Anyway - here's someone's 4 layer board that uses to octavo part (though to be fair - no ethernet or HDMI here) and they soldered it themselves with a toaster oven.
https://blog.oshpark.com/tag/beaglebone/

Wake the thread again when this mythical microchip part is released and someone has done something similar with it.

[mikeselectricstuff]

chips that runs Linux without involving BGA package. Now we have PIC32MZ DA in this club.

Just curious--why would you want to run Linux on something like a PIC32?

Because you want a  product with a long manufacturing lifetime. Microchip are well known for pretty much never obsoleting parts.
Because you want a well-documnented chip (is full, well-written data available for the Allwinner parts?)
Because maybe you're already familiar with the PIC family, so there's a lower learning curve for writing low-level stuff
maybe

[JPortici]

Starter kits should be available... or at least, the crypto variant seems to be available
http://www.microchipdirect.com/ProductSearch.aspx?Keywords=DM320010

for us mortals the chip is coming our at the end of august.. just in time for the masters conventions

[hans]

I think this PIC32MZ DA is screaming to be coupled with a FPGA for industrial applications, like embedded (vision) control.

The processing power is then not that important, because anything too heavy is hardware accelerated. I don't think a 1GHz Cortex A7 will be able to beat that neither - then I'd rather pick the ultimate design freedom of a FPGA.

Use USB/Ethernet/FS/tools of Linux to not fuss around with protocol stacks anymore. You certainly don't want to do that on a FPGA, but also lets be honest: who enjoys doing that on a Cortex m4 as well? And, do you really need 1GHz/1GB for that?

Microchip needs to make sure there are good drivers with DMA acceleration for these protocols, as well as a fast external memory bus like GPMC on aforementioned TI SoC. Then I can see them, when they establish that there are good Linux base images available, be on target of making this an interesting product.

Even for non-Linux applications this can still be an interesting chip, but then you'd probably have to get your hands more dirty with manhandling some of those protocols yourself.

[legacy]

I'm not. I don't use underpowered junk like that, even at home.

Yeap, it's all mental junk, that is precisely *THE* point! It's called the state or time of being a boy/girl, as virgin as you are in childhood. Then you grow up, and understand they are all bullshit, and you care on what makes you to get money, in the simplest way, because life is short and complex by itself.

Linux even on the toaster doesn't make it easy.

Linux is a big and long pole in the ass, everybody (including the big pig Banzi in Arduino) can jabber on bullshit about opensource, freedom 

It's always this kind of shit from those who want to sell you something, but what matters is all the shitty code in linux is a big a long pole in the ass when *YOU* have to provide assistance.

Because you will not be paid enough for the effort you need to continuously-endlessly-incessantly-unceasingly-ceaselessly invest. 

The code changes and it changes faster than you can metabolize, you need to stay "on the tree" more than the trains have to stay on rails.

If you don't, you derail, like when you have deal a  kernel module written for kernel version A, which needs to be moved to kernel version B, and everything starts to break, and you have a deadline.

Even for the kernel, problems are also related to rootfs and applications, everything can break with linux, including ... bootloader: palm :: palm :: palm:

It is virtually supported by billions of people, yes, but have you ever tried writing in a mail list? How many rumbling lines come daily from there, how many lines of code are broken, then fixed and then broken again, commit after commit, day after day, hour after hour, and did you ever called someone of those "experts" asking how much they want for a consultant?

So, screw you, linux

I'm tired of listening to all these bullshit on penguin even inside salted chips bags , it's like listening to the first orgasm from which she has never had a full fuck.

Just because you can run Linux on something doesn't mean you should.

So, 1000% agree

[technix]

I'm not. I don't use underpowered junk like that, even at home.

Yeap, it's all mental junk, that is precisely *THE* point! It's called the state or time of being a boy/girl, as virgin as you are in childhood. Then you grow up, and understand they are all bullshit, and you care on what makes you to get money, in the simplest way, because life is short and complex by itself.

Linux even on the toaster doesn't make it easy.

Linux is a big and long pole in the ass, everybody (including the big pig Banzi in Arduino) can jabber on bullshit about opensource, freedom 

It's always this kind of shit from those who want to sell you something, but what matters is all the shitty code in linux is a big a long pole in the ass when *YOU* have to provide assistance.

Because you will not be paid enough for the effort you need to continuously-endlessly-incessantly-unceasingly-ceaselessly invest. 

The code changes and it changes faster than you can metabolize, you need to stay "on the tree" more than the trains have to stay on rails.

If you don't, you derail, like when you have deal a  kernel module written for kernel version A, which needs to be moved to kernel version B, and everything starts to break, and you have a deadline.

Even for the kernel, problems are also related to rootfs and applications, everything can break with linux, including ... bootloader: palm :: palm :: palm:

It is virtually supported by billions of people, yes, but have you ever tried writing in a mail list? How many rumbling lines come daily from there, how many lines of code are broken, then fixed and then broken again, commit after commit, day after day, hour after hour, and did you ever called someone of those "experts" asking how much they want for a consultant?

So, screw you, linux

I'm tired of listening to all these bullshit on penguin even inside salted chips bags , it's like listening to the first orgasm from which she has never had a full fuck.

Just because you can run Linux on something doesn't mean you should.

So, 1000% agree

If you hate Linux so much, please leave the Internet in general. The Internet is built on Linux. Your wireless router is probably running Linux. Your residential gateway probably is running Linux. The routers used by your ISP, unless they invested in full Cisco stack, runs Linux. This very website is hosted on Linux. And might I remind you that it is fairly likely that the smartphone of yours is running Linux. Oh keep in mind that Microsoft and Apple are probably more similar to The Big Brother than you think, and both HP and Microsoft want to plant a key logger in Windows kernel.

[Sal Ammoniac]

chips that runs Linux without involving BGA package. Now we have PIC32MZ DA in this club.

Just curious--why would you want to run Linux on something like a PIC32?

Because you want a  product with a long manufacturing lifetime. Microchip are well known for pretty much never obsoleting parts.
Because you want a well-documnented chip (is full, well-written data available for the Allwinner parts?)
Because maybe you're already familiar with the PIC family, so there's a lower learning curve for writing low-level stuff
maybe

Perhaps you misunderstood my comment. I wasn't singling out the PIC32, which I think is a fine part. I should have been more explicit: why would anyone want to run Linux on a microcontroller with such limited resources? What's the point?

[Sal Ammoniac]

Linux is a big and long pole in the ass

Can I quote you on that? 

[ehughes]

I think this PIC32MZ DA is screaming to be coupled with a FPGA for industrial applications, like embedded (vision) control.

This already exists in the form of the Xilinx Zynq.   The  development tools are much more mature.

Once you couple to an FPGA for vision,  you have left the $5 Market.    There are already $50 to $5000 FPGAs with embedded ARM chips that solve the problem.

As for the QFP.... That ship has sailed.   Other than the Adafruit hobby market (who don't count in terms of sales), no one who does real work cares it is a BGA.