Author Topic: PIC16F18856 has centre metal pad?  (Read 1688 times)

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Offline ocsetTopic starter

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PIC16F18856 has centre metal pad?
« on: August 07, 2018, 01:45:09 pm »
Hello, Do you know if the 6X6mm version of the PIC16F18856 has a centre metal pad? The datasheet doesn’t say. The recommended land pattern (page 664) has a centre pad, and it is a potential  short circuit hazard to the pin pads.......so we will not follow the recommended land pattern if the actual IC itself doesn’t have a metal centre pad.
PIC16F18856 datasheet
http://ww1.microchip.com/downloads/en/DeviceDoc/PIC16(L)F18856_76%20Data%20Sheet%20DS40001824C.pdf
 

Online wraper

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Re: PIC16F18856 has centre metal pad?
« Reply #1 on: August 07, 2018, 01:58:29 pm »
Quote
3: The bottom pad of the QFN/UQFN package should be connected to VSS at the circuit board level.
page 5, and then look at page 652-655 for package drawing and pad layout.
« Last Edit: August 07, 2018, 02:01:57 pm by wraper »
 
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Offline NorthGuy

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Re: PIC16F18856 has centre metal pad?
« Reply #2 on: August 07, 2018, 02:00:15 pm »
All the QFN packages of any PICs that I've ever seen had a central pad. The datasheet that I have for PIC16F18856 does shows the central pad on the drawing.
 
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Offline In Vacuo Veritas

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Re: PIC16F18856 has centre metal pad?
« Reply #3 on: August 07, 2018, 02:14:49 pm »
Hello, Do you know if the 6X6mm version of the PIC16F18856 has a centre metal pad? The datasheet doesn’t say. The recommended land pattern (page 664) has a centre pad, and it is a potential  short circuit hazard to the pin pads.......so we will not follow the recommended land pattern if the actual IC itself doesn’t have a metal centre pad.
PIC16F18856 datasheet
http://ww1.microchip.com/downloads/en/DeviceDoc/PIC16(L)F18856_76%20Data%20Sheet%20DS40001824C.pdf


Are you seriously not able to navigate a datasheet to find a package drawing??? Who hired you?
 
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Offline andersm

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Re: PIC16F18856 has centre metal pad?
« Reply #4 on: August 07, 2018, 02:23:39 pm »
Are you seriously not able to navigate a datasheet to find a package drawing??? Who hired you?
Don't be an asshole.
« Last Edit: August 07, 2018, 03:04:12 pm by andersm »
 
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Offline In Vacuo Veritas

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Re: PIC16F18856 has centre metal pad?
« Reply #5 on: August 07, 2018, 03:30:26 pm »
Are you seriously not able to navigate a datasheet to find a package drawing??? Who hired you?
Don't be an asshole.

He's claiming to be an EE and asking sub-hobbyist questions. The table of contents of the PDF is right there for everyone to see. Pressing CTRL-F should not be a PHD-level skill.
 
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Offline EEVblog

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Re: PIC16F18856 has centre metal pad?
« Reply #6 on: August 07, 2018, 03:35:58 pm »
Are you seriously not able to navigate a datasheet to find a package drawing??? Who hired you?
Don't be an asshole.

He's claiming to be an EE and asking sub-hobbyist questions. The table of contents of the PDF is right there for everyone to see. Pressing CTRL-F should not be a PHD-level skill.

Yes, but as mentioned, you don't have to be an arse about it. I've noted a few comments like this from you recently, be careful.
 
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Offline In Vacuo Veritas

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Re: PIC16F18856 has centre metal pad?
« Reply #7 on: August 07, 2018, 04:39:00 pm »
Are you seriously not able to navigate a datasheet to find a package drawing??? Who hired you?
Don't be an asshole.

He's claiming to be an EE and asking sub-hobbyist questions. The table of contents of the PDF is right there for everyone to see. Pressing CTRL-F should not be a PHD-level skill.

Yes, but as mentioned, you don't have to be an arse about it. I've noted a few comments like this from you recently, be careful.

Noted.
 
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Offline cv007

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Re: PIC16F18856 has centre metal pad?
« Reply #8 on: August 07, 2018, 05:59:24 pm »
I bought some of these- PIC16F15354
Mouser part# 579-PIC16F15354-I/ML

These were 6x6 0.65 pitch, and they did not have a center pad. I'm now not even sure how I figured out how to even get these as I don't see the ML footprint in the datasheet (although 6x6 is mentioned). It must of made sense to me at some point.

Quote
All the QFN packages of any PICs that I've ever seen had a central pad. The datasheet that I have for PIC16F18856 does shows the central pad on the drawing.
I think it may be meaningless anymore what they show for those pads. I think there were other threads on this- showing the pad in documentation, but there is no pad. My guess is they are dropping the pad on newer parts, but the documentation is lagging.

You almost need to order one to find out what you will get. I would guess there is no pad for that part.
 
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Offline KL27x

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Re: PIC16F18856 has centre metal pad?
« Reply #9 on: August 08, 2018, 11:30:36 pm »
OP:
The center pad on 8 bit PICs does not have to be connected, unless you are running into dissipation/thermal issues. I've heard others using them in professional applications don't always connect it, if hand soldering. I don't do it, either.

BUT, you should
1. Not worry about bridging, because it's not going to bridge. The center pad is as far away from the outer pins as it needs to be. If there were a problem, they would have made the center pad smaller.
2. If you are going to omit the center pad on the PCB (for no reason), you should consider altering the soldermask to prevent soldermask under the chip. Soldermask will raise the chip a little and make the outer pads into a shallow trench. This will apply to any board, but especially to flex boards where the mask is actually a 1 mil thick coverlay. For QFN chips, there is typically no soldermask applied between any of the pads; hence no soldermask under the chip's footprint, at all. Contrary to popular belief, the reason for soldermask is not to prevent bridges. It's there to prevent tinning of things which are not supposed to be tinned and to prevent oxidation/corrosion. Flux and proper pad sizing/spacing is what prevents bridges.

So you can omit the pad if you want. But having any soldermask under there can increase your error rate in the reflow and/or hand soldering. So you can't really use that space for routing other traces. I.e., AFAIC, there's no compelling reason to omit the pad, except to give yourself a pat on the back for doing something that wasn't necessary. The only reason I can even imagine is if you are going to paint the pads with a soldering iron and then use hot air reflow... then you wouldn't have to be as careful where you put the iron. But I suggest if hand soldering, using an iron without hot air will be faster than this, anyway.
« Last Edit: August 09, 2018, 12:00:04 am by KL27x »
 
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Offline westfw

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Re: PIC16F18856 has centre metal pad?
« Reply #10 on: August 09, 2018, 01:35:45 am »
Quote
prevent soldermask under the chip
Meh.  If you're going to do other things that will disallow the use of traces and vias under the chip, then you might as well put the pad there...
 

Offline ocsetTopic starter

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Re: PIC16F18856 has centre metal pad?
« Reply #11 on: August 09, 2018, 04:53:43 am »
Quote
Contrary to popular belief, the reason for soldermask is not to prevent bridges. It's there to prevent tinning of things which are not supposed to be tinned and to prevent oxidation/corrosion.
Thanks thats interesting, but in gerneral, solder  resist is  usually placed over the FR4 of the board...and this woudl never be tinned, and would never oxidise?
 

Offline KL27x

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Re: PIC16F18856 has centre metal pad?
« Reply #12 on: August 09, 2018, 09:12:51 am »
^What reason would there be to cover just a couple mils past the edges of the traces/pours and have a weaker bond to the board and make your silkscreen bumpy and less legible? And why would you need to prevent bridges between traces/pours that are covered? But between the pads of the finest pitch IC's and BGA's, you explicitly do NOT put soldermask?  :popcorn:

You might say soldermask also seals the pores of the FR-4 from solvents and possibly moisture, too. So maybe there are other reasons. For reflow process, soldermask IS absolutely necessary.... over the traces to keep the solder on the pads. Else the parts just drift around out of alignment and there's not enough paste. Between pads where there isn't any copper/trace, it is not needed. 

Gullwing pins extend down below the bottom of the IC to clear soldermask. With enough space, a manufacturer with high enough resolution can even put soldermask between the pins. QFN and the L-something-something and BGA pads are flush to the chip. Soldermask anywhere under the chip is ill-advised.
« Last Edit: August 09, 2018, 09:48:41 am by KL27x »
 
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