[SOLVED] PICKIT 3 cannot switch to MPLAB mode

[m.m.m]

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Hi,

I've just bought a Chinese cloned version of PK3, the problem is that it works fine with PICKIT 3 version 3.10 but it cannot switch into MPLAB mode, i.e. it works fine with the standalone PICKIT 3 software but when I hit revert to MPLAB mode its memory some sort of "wipes" and the MPLAB x or MPLAB 8.92 cannot communicate to the kit (they do find the chip on the usb port). And when I open the PICKIT software again, normally it should give a message like:
"The PICkit 3 is in MPLAB mode. Use the Tools menu to download an OS compatible with this application."
but in my case it shows up:
"The PICKIT 3 has no operating system, Use the Tools menu to download an OS."

what can I do for it?

AND PLEASE DON'T TELL ME TO BUY A $150 ICD 3 KIT, IF I COULD AFFORD IT I WOULD DO THAT!

[JPortici]

aaaah, the chinese clone constantly bricking problem. i always had my pk2 to reflash the pic in my pk3 clone, like in here http://78.20.42.79:8080/posts/Unbricking%20the%20PICkit3/

anyway in the pickit 3 standalone app you should have the tools menu and at the bottom of the menu you should have an option called download operating system

if this doesn't work i think you bricked the thing.

no need to buy an ICD3 (by the way, WHERE do you find a genuine one at that price?) i would have suggested not to mess with chinese crap for programmers and buy the real PK3 for about 50 or 60, or the olimex clone, which actually work, for about 30.

Never mess with chinese crap for programmers. Also, if you get genuine if you had a problem like this you would just have to open a ticked and et voila, replacement PK3 coming straight from microchip for free. maybe then you fix the old one and you suddently have two (this is also why is better to get genuine stuff)

and why does everybody still want to use that standalone app crap? the MPLAB X IPE is so much better in so many ways. first of all it works and doesn't get you strange bugs and sudden crashes, second of all you don't need to install the IDE as well anymore (i think, there is the choice on what to install) so that isn't an """issue""" anymore.
switching between mplab and and x will still be a bitch (at work we have different pk3 with different modes to avoid losing time) but the fastest way to revert is to open the ipe, select a pic from a different family (eg: if it was pic18 select pic24) and hit connect. done.

[CJay]

Absolutely agree with JPortici, there is no point and a lot of pain in buying clone programmers for MChip products, the support from MChip is worth the extra money.

[m.m.m]

anyway in the pickit 3 standalone app you should have the tools menu and at the bottom of the menu you should have an option called download operating system

if this doesn't work i think you bricked the thing.

and why does everybody still want to use that standalone app crap? the MPLAB X IPE is so much better in so many ways. first of all it works and doesn't get you strange bugs and sudden crashes, second of all you don't need to install the IDE as well anymore (i think, there is the choice on what to install) so that isn't an """issue""" anymore.
switching between mplab and and x will still be a bitch (at work we have different pk3 with different modes to avoid losing time) but the fastest way to revert is to open the ipe, select a pic from a different family (eg: if it was pic18 select pic24) and hit connect. done.

the pickit doesn't have any issue with the download operating system option on the old app, the issue is that I have to do that every single time I press that button on the programmer or revert into MPLAB mode. I'm not sure if that needs reflashing the thing with another programmer.

And as I said the MPLAB x does not recognize the programmer otherwise I would use that for programming since it also has debugging tools as well! and all this pain is to get MPLAB X working, if I wanted to use the old pickit software I didn't have any problem at all because it's working already!

[JPortici]

Oh, i see. There is a problem with X and Programmers which don't have a serial number (aka older generation clones.. apparently newer ones have a fake serialnumber so they should work with X but i didn't bother checking if it's true having bought a genuine one a couple of years ago)

actually the problem is with the driver, older ones based on older versions of java worked with any programmer but it's a big pain in the but to get old java 6 working on recent operating systems.. on OSX for example you simply can't, period. Plus you should use very old versions of X which were a disaster

if you can use old MPLAB with the PK3 you can still use it as a debugger... and use XC compilers, too. I suggest you do that until you can get a genuine programmer

[NivagSwerdna]

You get a lot of mileage from pressing the button on the PicKit as you power it ON.

(I believe this invalidates the current firmware and encourages re-downloading)

[m.m.m]

Oh, i see. There is a problem with X and Programmers which don't have a serial number (aka older generation clones.. apparently newer ones have a fake serialnumber so they should work with X but i didn't bother checking if it's true having bought a genuine one a couple of years ago)

actually the problem is with the driver, older ones based on older versions of java worked with any programmer but it's a big pain in the but to get old java 6 working on recent operating systems.. on OSX for example you simply can't, period. Plus you should use very old versions of X which were a disaster

if you can use old MPLAB with the PK3 you can still use it as a debugger... and use XC compilers, too. I suggest you do that until you can get a genuine programmer

not sure about the old mplab x software versions but I've tried various versions of the old MPLAB software (8.20 & 8.30 & 8.92)
same results  (recognized pickit 3 but failed to properly connect to it)

mplab ipe cannot connect to it either.

I'm planing to order a pickit 2 because it's so much simpler and its source code is now available. maybe when I get that try to upload another firmware on this one via that and see the results.

You get a lot of mileage from pressing the button on the PicKit as you power it ON.

(I believe this invalidates the current firmware and encourages re-downloading)

yeah I've tried that as well, not sure what it does but no change.


edit:
when I first plugged the thing in it's leds were on some other order, the power was steady but the active led was blinking. first tried mplab x and mplab ipe and couldn't connect.
then when I connected to the pickit 3 v3.10 and downloaded the software now both the power and active led are steady.
maybe I shouldn't have downloaded the pickit3 OS on it? 

[NivagSwerdna]

not sure what it does but no change.

It puts it into 'bootloader' mode.  I found it documented once... but have lost the reference now.

[m.m.m]

not sure what it does but no change.

It puts it into 'bootloader' mode.  I found it documented once... but have lost the reference now.

so maybe mine cannot do that because of a bad image, I'll try reprogramming the chip as soon as I get the pickit 2.

[KL27x]

not sure about the old mplab x software versions but I've tried various versions of the old MPLAB software (8.20 & 8.30 & 8.92)
same results  (recognized pickit 3 but failed to properly connect to it)

mplab ipe cannot connect to it either.

Have you tried to install the firmware with MPLAB 8.x, instead of PK3 3.x Standalone?
Open MPLAB 8.x
Hold the button while plugging in PK3
Select PK3 programmer
Go to programmer setttings and hit "Manual firmware download" button
Goto Microchip>MPLAB IDE>PK3 folder on your computer. And there should be AT LEAST one file that looks like:


PK3FW_013411.jam  (this is the version that I got from IPE2.26, IIRC)

IIRC, each version of Microchip IPE will have a different version of this PK3 JAM file. If you do not have this file in your Microchip>MPLAB IDE>PK3 folder, you may have to first download a version of IPE/X (even if you do not use it). I'm sure there are newer versions since I have done this, but the 013411 is the last one I downloaded. Some might work better than others with your programmer and version of MPLAB 8. Since 8.x is no longer supported, you might find older version works better, perhaps.

NONE of my PK3's, including the genuine one, would work with IPE without first manually installing the firmware within MPLAB. This is not the same problem you have, but I also use MPLAB 8.x, so give this a try, maybe. How long it took me to figure this stuff out, and HOW... don't remember. It was quite the journey.

PK3 3.0 is also unsupported. Perhaps the latest versions of the firmware you got when you downloaded IPE/X do not work in PK3 standalone, anymore. As they keep updating the PK3 firmware, there is no guarantee they check if it still works with 3.0 or 8.x. Microchip keeps all released versions of their software archived for download. So you can experiment. Some earlier FW for instance, works with my MPLAB and IPE, but P2G doesn't work. these versions were probably made before they added P2G, because IIRC P2G was unfinished when they started selling PK3 (No version works with MPLAB 8.9 P2G... I have to use IPE 2.26 to make P2G work. If memory serves, they dropped support of MPLAB before they finished getting P2G to work on PK3. So even though MPLAB 8.9x has option for PK3 P2G, it is not going to work; or if it does, please tell me which version of MPLAB and PK3 firmware you are using!). One of my clone won't work (satisfactorily) in P2G at all. It might work once or twice then it hangs. My genuine hangs, too, but at least it can do 10 or 50 before needing a reboot. Some of my clones actually work better than genuine.

In short, you can try different versions of PK3 firmware. They are included with each revision of X/IPE as a .JAM file in MPLAB IDE>PK3 folder

Holding the PK3 button while powering it should allow it to enumerate and be recognized, even if the firmware is corrupted or stuck in 3.0 version.

You should be able to manually install the PK3 firmware JAM file using MPLAB 8.9x or IPE or X.

[m.m.m]

PK3FW_013411.jam  (this is the version that I got from IPE2.26, IIRC)

thanks for the instructions, I was finally able to figure it out, the point was that I had to press hold the button for a specific time until the three lights to turn on and hopefully if I get it in the right timing and release the button in the last moments that the lights are on it will switch into bootloader mode and ask the pc to download firmware (tried that for at least 200 times!), then I used the old MPLAB software to upload the firmware, and now the problem is that it gets stuck at the "RS download complete" stage! it doesn't go any further no matter how many times I tried. I think it's because after installing the RS it reboots the pickit and I have to again do the trick to get it to bootloader. and after that the three lights light up constantly, and now I can use the pickit 3.10 software to get it back where it was again. I've tried both MPlab 8.30 & 8.92 and so different versions of jam files. 


p.s. forget about that connecting bar that I circled, I first thought that's got a problem too. but I was wrong that's just fine.

[KL27x]

it reboots the pickit and I have to again do the trick to get it to bootloader. and after that the three lights light up constantly, and now I can use the pickit 3.10 software to get it back where it was again.

If your PK3 needs the button trick at this point, I wonder if you have a larger problem. I wish I could help, but it sounds like your programmer needs higher medicine. I have heard people reflash their entire PK3, but I don't know where to get that image (the full thing to reinstall the bootloader, too). And of course, you would need another programmer. FWIW, I think it's worth having a PK2 even if you own PK3, especially if you use MPLAB 8.x. It is has a lot of handy features. Don't quote me on it, but I believe the PIC32 in the PK3 is a supported device of the PK2, if you can find the image and decide to try that route. I think I've done that once, suggesting to me that the image is in one of the Microchip folders, but my mind may be playing tricks on me. Fact that all but the latest clones don't have a serial number suggests to me that the FW image is maybe not freely available.

[CJay]

The firmware image has been available I believe, it may or may not be supplied with current versions of the standalone programmer, might need to hit the archives if it's not.

PK2 was the same, full image with bootloader wasn't in every software package, it took a bit of hunting to find it.

[m.m.m]

Hi again,
I've just received a pickit 2, so now I just reprogrammed the pickit 3 firmware, not noticed any major change. mplab x can't still connect to it!
same for the Mplab IDE 8.92, could not connect to the programmer, and gets stuck in the middle of updating the bootloader 
any ideas?

p.s. My pickit 2 cannot connect to mplab x either! but it can connect to mplab ide 8.92 what should I do?!

[KL27x]

Me? I would first check my version of MPLAB X/IPE.

I heard they have adding serial number check or something to prevent clones from working? I dunno. I am pretty careful to avoid updating things that aren't broke. But if your version of IPE is higher than 2.26, maybe try going back to older version.

Next, I would suggest you check what kind of clone you have. If it's Sure Electronics, I am of opinion that these are pure junk.

If your clone is not Sure Electronics (black case), and you have tried older version of X/IPE, then i suggest two options:

1. buy a genuine PK3 for $50.00, from Microchip Direct.

2. buy a known good clone. I have 3 different clones that work fine, but this is my fav for one very obscure reason which probably doesn't apply to anyone else. Tommydvp is the seller. I bought mine a couple years ago, so who knows it it's the same thing, anymore? So maybe go back to option 1?
http://www.ebay.com/itm/PICKit3-Microchip-Programmer-w-USB-cable-wires-Pic-Kit-3-/331941067077?epid=668289631&hash=item4d493ab945:g:XGMAAOSwnHZYcAgs

[m.m.m]

wow! good news, I just tried another PC, I just plugged the pk3 and it installed the driver, then installed mplab ide 8.92. And, voila! It could upgrade the firmware with no problem, and talks to the chip perfectly.
But I can't still get it work on my main PC, still that "Failed to initialize pk3". Both are win10. What should I do? Tried uninstalling the driver as well.

[KL27x]

http://www.microchip.com/stellent/groups/sitecomm_sg/documents/devicedoc/en557151.pdf

Well, now that you say this, some distant bell is ringing in my ear. There is a tool for switching USB drivers between MPLAB 8.x and MPLAB X. I think the official name is "MPLAB driver switcher." Perhaps somehow your main computer has installed the standard USB driver for MPLAB X. To work with MPLAB 8.x (at least the debugger functionality) requires a custom driver.

Perhaps you could try running this program to see if it fixes your PK3 driver. I find it in All Programs>Microchip>MPLAB X IDE>MPLAB driver switcher.

I'm not sure if this can fix your issue, but at this point I'm grasping at straws. IIRC, it took me a week to figure out how to get my PK3's to work with my software, and there was nothing particularly straightforward about it, so I think you're still on schedule.

FWIW, for some reason I can use MPLAB 8.x and IPE without switching drivers. It might be because I'm using older version of the PK3 firmware and/or IPE. So I have actually never used the driver switcher. (If it ain't broke). It might also be because the driver issue perhaps only pertains to the debugger; hence, once setup for 8.X, you can perhaps use IPE and/or X, but not the debugger in X (and hence, this may not be the solution to your problem).

If you still have issue and have not given up to make your $20.00 clone work, you might search the microchip forums. They have a section for programmer/debuggers, and PK3 was the hot topic and what helped me thru the process, with help of search function and a lot of digging. Anyhow, I hope you will appreciate your small investment in the PK2. It simply works, and I wouldn't be without one, no matter how many PK3's I have (over half a dozen, lol).

[m.m.m]

Perhaps you could try running this program to see if it fixes your PK3 driver. I find it in All Programs>Microchip>MPLAB X IDE>MPLAB driver switcher.

The switcher app is not made for pickit 3, and doesn't have pickit 3 in its menu.
And my $10 pk3 doesn't seem to have any problem, the problem is with the drivers.
I just checked the driver on the other PC, and it's version 10.0.14393.351 dated 6/21/2006 while the driver on my laptop is version 10.0.15063.0 and the same date. I tried extracting the driver from the other PC and installing it on my laptop but it's not compatible. 

[KL27x]

Oh . Well, I have ICD3, too. And poor memory.

Well it sounds like you are getting closer to a solution. I hope I have given some moral support, at least.

[Yansi]

what can I do for it?

AND PLEASE DON'T TELL ME TO BUY A $150 ICD 3 KIT, IF I COULD AFFORD IT I WOULD DO THAT!

As a sidejoke but really not that offtopic one:  You probably might afford a different type of 8bit MCU vendor, who's development tools  doesn't suck and cost gold per horseshit. 

[KL27x]

cost gold per horseshit

Well, to be fair, if you actually get PK3 to work on your system, it's extremely inexpensive (especially $10.00 clone!) and pretty amazing. In devices I have actually used debugger, PK3 is pretty comparable in speed to the ICD3 (way way way faster than PK2). And debugger/device compatibility of PK3 is very similar to ICD3. So if you manage to get it working, PK3 is quite a bargain.

Also, to be honest, I've used "horseshit" and "PK3" in the same sentence several times, myself.

So I agree, cost of ICD might be sorta high. And PK3 might be sorta horseshit. But I can't call any Microchip programmer both, at the same time. Also, if we are gonna compare to, say, AVR for instance, I don't know what AVR has that actually compares in features to PK3/IDC3? Or even PK2, for that matter. PK2/3 have external programming button (which is handy for reading/verifying device with ICSP pads without needing 3 hands, as well as for serial batch flashing), P2G, and fully adjustable Vtarget (not just physical switch for 3.3/5.0). PK2 was very well regarded in its heyday with unheard of functionality for cost as dev tool/programmer. PK3 has some teething pains, but it manages to remain same cost range and with even more functionality (unless you care about the LOL logic analyzer in PK2).

[m.m.m]

IT WORKED! you can't imagine how happy I am right now! The solution was completely related to the windows drivers, I had to change the three system files in system32 folder: HIDClass.sys, hidparse.sys and hidusb.sys with the older version which was available on the other PC. The ones on my laptop were v10.0.15063.0 and on the other PC were 10.0.14393.351
I hope this wouldn't screw the windows 
now the newest MPLAB x version which has just released (v4.00) works with the $10 cloned pickit 3 just fine!!!!!
I can't believe it!!!!!

[Yansi]

cost gold per horseshit

Also, to be honest, I've used "horseshit" and "PK3" in the same sentence several times, myself.

Thank you for making my day, I laughed at that one 

I have been few times forced to work with some PIC 8bit shit using the round ICD disc gizmo with some archaic version of MPLAB, was that some sort of PIC16 or PIC18 whatever, but no thanks, never that again!

IMHO If I would need to come back to 8 bits, I would prefer STM8, as those are widely available, including free toolchains and cheap debugger (few $ per chinese STLINK clone) while having a fuckton of usable peripherals (except I2C, which is a nightmare, so beware!).

[Ian.M]

The firmware image has been available I believe, it may or may not be supplied with current versions of the standalone programmer, might need to hit the archives if it's not.

PK2 was the same, full image with bootloader wasn't in every software package, it took a bit of hunting to find it.

For anyone stuck looking for an official PICkit 3 firmware including bootloader, Google: RS/AP IMAGE_PK3_012510.zip
 
Its quite an old version so expect to have to play the game with holding the button down on initial USB connection to force bootloader mode to get it to update.