Stay away from MAX13487 chinese clones

[martinayotte]

I've received some MAX13487 chinese clones purchased on AliExpress, about qty=75.
I've soldered a PCB for a project that use them, a RS485 multi-bus expansion for OrangePiPC.

Unfortunately, I discovered that AutoDirection of those clones chips isn't working properly, staying in Output mode all the time, although I've PullUp/PullDown on the bus.
Pulling my hairs, hang my head on the wall, I decided in emergency to purchase some original MAXIM from DigiKey.
My PCB is now working fine !!!

So, Stay away from MAX13487 chinese clones, even if you feel like me that US$0.60 is well cheaper then the DigiKey one at US$2.00 !!!

[legacy]

Welcome into the club 

[Bruce Abbott]

I've received some MAX13487 chinese clones purchased on AliExpress, about qty=75.

[perieanuo]

Same with max31855 worked 1 h to understand why the clone wasn't working and another 1h to repair it (order the new chip,resolder test etcétéra).finally the spare part chip was more expensive that the whole Chinese board.so they just solder bad chips without shame.didnt think they burn the chips while solder them or by static electricity they use just bad chips


Envoyé de mon iPad en utilisant Tapatalk

[legacy]

Sometime ago I believed that china was a Wonderland, a magic place where you can find all the chip you want growing on trees. Thus, I wanted to go there. And I went there, and once my feet were there I felt like Alice tumbling down the rabbit hole.

Things to Do in Shenzhen.

Visit the Splendid China Park. See the Shenzhen Window of the World. Hike to the top and enjoy amazing view of the skyline. Shenzhen Lianhuashan Park. Gentle slope and so, easy to do, and offers a great view of the City. And a great way to spend an afternoon is wandering around the alleys and streets of the district watching the artists.

All good 

But, since I was still believing that people in china find electronic chips growing on trees, I wanted to see the industrial area ... where I discovered that pollution in China' is one aspect of the broader topic of environmental issues on the all Earth planet. Various forms of pollution have increased as China has industrialised, which has caused widespread environmental and health problems.

I saw with my eyes a lot of guys recycling dead electronic, just putting parts on a fire without protections, neither for their lungs, nor for the ambient.

What? In China the waste production increases along an insufficient efforts to develop capable recycling systems. In 2012 the waste generation in China was 300 million tons, and even the State Environmental Protection Administration believes it to be a threat to the environment, food safety and sustainable agriculture. Something like 100,000 km2 of China’s cultivated land have been polluted,

All of these have been attributed to a lack of environmental awareness. They simply don't care.

So, now my eyes know what is behind the mirror, when they can find cheap parts on ebay, and my mind doen't know where they come from, and even my fingers on the keyboard know that hey don't grow on tree, but cancer grows on someone's lungs  for this.

When I see people buying from those channels ... well, they constantly try to sell us their crap (like fake chips) which only ends in increasing the waste production and entropy. And people die. But who cares? Chinese population is an uncountable number, if someone dies, there is a replacement.

I won't never come back to China, nor I will ever buy something form those channels.

Disgusted   

[perieanuo]

You have a point but....almost every chip is made there.ok,I just buyed this week 200 euros from farnell but the chips came from the same factory.my lazy europeen compatriots don't want to produce that anymore except a little auto and military.we're digging ourselves the grave


Envoyé de mon iPad en utilisant Tapatalk

[jefflieu]

I wouldn't buy chips from China.
They certainly can make things, but buying chips distributed by someone on AliExpress is highly dodgy.
Things you can buy from aliexpress:
LED
Breadboard
Connectors
DC motors ...
You know what I mean, stuff with simple functionality.

[legacy]

almost every chip is made there..we're digging ourselves the grave

There is a big difference between buying from a respectable company and from the last-dude from china.
Chips are made there, yes, correct, but! Respectable companies care for their workers safety, and for waste recycling, which doesn't produce tons of polluting for air, water and food.

The last-dude from China doesn't, on the contrary he/she enslaves workers and his/her fraudolent activity only produce garbage for you (a fake defective product) and pollution.

compatriots don't want to produce that anymore except a little auto and military

You haven't understood the main point: things like "certification", "workers safety" and "waste recycling" add a cost to the production line, so ... what do you expect if a fraudulent fsking Chinese company simply doesn't care in order to put products (fakes, craps defective, all garbage) for a ridiculous price in place like ebay and Alixpress?

Here is where those fakes come from. And I can assure you we don't pay it in money, but the Earth planet pays it with her blood, since to produce a fake always ends with polluting.


Air Pollution in China

Have you ever heard about "CE" logo falsification? Chinese also do it, usually with catastrophic consequences for the final users. Domestic incidents where your sons can be hurt. Yes, it also happens with toys.

I work for an avionic company, we have a lot of money and we can care about workers safety and quality because our job tasks are committed for the army, which means the money comes from taxes.

It's a good ecosystem, which produces a lot of benefits, but it can't be applied to other products on the large scale, such as ... civil products.

I don't think we are lazy, I think we should stop to buy those articles (when they are too cheap .. something smells) from China, increase job occupations, increase university backgrounds, reduce taxes (this will impact on avionics, but it will allow little local companies to grow up), inject more money (to help little local companies to grow up), and change the banks power in order to be able to be independent from China.

Banks are going miserable with us in Italy since they only want to promote big companies, which becoming Chinese companies. It wouldn't be so bad, but it moves people, it moves money, it moves the know/how, all abroad, reducing those who can "do" stuff locally. At the end, it will be a dead cycle.

It would be also good to enforce the Interpol control in order to stop those fraudulent activities. It already happens, but ... we are too slow and Chinese are too crafty in reacting when they are catch.

As you know, when you catch a fraudolent, you look for the person in charge, Chinese happen to move in large groups, therefore if you catch one, there are others.

Enforcing the Interpol power at least reduces the reaction time. More are catch, more are stopped.

[legacy]

so,  martinayotte is right in his proposal to stay away from Chinese clones
You have my 100% support in this 

edit:
Thought it was "MartinA"-"Yotte", which is a female name. Sorry 

[BradC]

They certainly can make things, but buying chips distributed by someone on AliExpress is highly dodgy.

Just for a laugh, and not actually electronics related :

I bought about a grands worth of copper pipe from a vendor on Alibaba. I knew it was probably dodgy but for what I needed it was probably going to do the job. It was about 1/4 of the price *delivered* than buying quality copper from Crane over East.

It arrived pummeled and somewhat useless due to crap packing and shipping. Then I tried to use it only to find it wasn't really annealed properly. Due to the "poetic license" taken with the wall thickness measurement along with the annealing, the larger diameter stuff crumpled as I tried to bend/shape it. The best part was yet to come as it tended to attract iron filings when exposed to my strong welding magnet fixtures. After that I decided to give it the "acid" test and left a coil on the lawn under the sprinklers. Once it started to rust I decided to cut my losses and sell it to a scrap metal dealer, honestly identified as "containing copper but an unknown proportion" and got about 1/20th of what I paid for it.

I now pay the premium and buy (really nice to work with) Aussie copper pipe.

On the other hand, I imported about 50KG of 13A Zeolite and got exactly what I ordered, but at Chinese prices rather than Aus prices.

You pays your money, you takes your chance. I wouldn't buy silicon that way though. Once burned and all..

[perieanuo]

almost every chip is made there..we're digging ourselves the grave

There is a big difference between buying from a respectable company and from the last-dude from china.
Chips are made there, yes, correct, but! Respectable companies care for their workers safety, and for waste recycling, which doesn't produce tons of polluting for air, water and food.

The last-dude from China doesn't, on the contrary he/she enslaves workers and his/her fraudolent activity only produce garbage for you (a fake defective product) and pollution.

compatriots don't want to produce that anymore except a little auto and military

You haven't understood the main point: things like "certification", "workers safety" and "waste recycling" add a cost to the production line, so ... what do you expect if a fraudulent fsking Chinese company simply doesn't care in order to put products (fakes, craps defective, all garbage) for a ridiculous price in place like ebay and Alixpress?

Here is where those fakes come from. And I can assure you we don't pay it in money, but the Earth planet pays it with her blood, since to produce a fake always ends with polluting.


Air Pollution in China

Have you ever heard about "CE" logo falsification? Chinese also do it, usually with catastrophic consequences for the final users. Domestic incidents where your sons can be hurt. Yes, it also happens with toys.

I work for an avionic company, we have a lot of money and we can care about workers safety and quality because our job tasks are committed for the army, which means the money comes from taxes.

It's a good ecosystem, which produces a lot of benefits, but it can't be applied to other products on the large scale, such as ... civil products.

I don't think we are lazy, I think we should stop to buy those articles (when they are too cheap .. something smells) from China, increase job occupations, increase university backgrounds, reduce taxes (this will impact on avionics, but it will allow little local companies to grow up), inject more money (to help little local companies to grow up), and change the banks power in order to be able to be independent from China.

Banks are going miserable with us in Italy since they only want to promote big companies, which becoming Chinese companies. It wouldn't be so bad, but it moves people, it moves money, it moves the know/how, all abroad, reducing those who can "do" stuff locally. At the end, it will be a dead cycle.

It would be also good to enforce the Interpol control in order to stop those fraudulent activities. It already happens, but ... we are too slow and Chinese are too crafty in reacting when they are catch.

As you know, when you catch a fraudolent, you look for the person in charge, Chinese happen to move in large groups, therefore if you catch one, there are others.

Enforcing the Interpol power at least reduces the reaction time. More are catch, more are stopped.

No,you don't understand maybe there is a huge market for hobbist.
In fact you don't get a lot of things like UE logo falsifying :that started here in UE.I see this in medical and military electronics.the Chinese just adapts.don't forget it's an europeen who verifies.that's one.
To continue the hobbist story,he doesn't give a f... on certifications but on quality if you get the concept.it's a BIG difference,I seen shit with certified papers and good stuff without.
The idea was we lost the production facilities and that is bad.despite the market.
I'll bee back my wife arrives
Get real man


Envoyé de mon iPad en utilisant Tapatalk

[legacy]

In fact you don't get a lot of things like UE logo falsifying

It happens, and it happens for food and medicines.
They also falsified cheese brands.
Really unbelievable but it happens.


They sell a lot of crap to hobbyists, and a person who pursues a particular hobby buys from them simply because they offer things for cheap.

[Bruce Abbott]

they sell a lot of crap to hobbyists,

But it isn't necessarily any worse than the 'crap' (also made in China) that local 'hobbyist' suppliers are offering at inflated prices. Some of us remember the bad old days when hobbyists couldn't get parts because wholesalers wouldn't sell to us, or bow and scrape and pay 40% extra for the privilege. Now the Chinese are selling the same 'crap' direct to anyone at realistic prices, and we love it!

and a person who pursues a particular hobby buys from them simply because they offer things for cheap,

Price is a factor for sure, and why not? Buying small quantities from regular suppliers can be prohibitively expensive for someone on a 'hobbyist' budget. When parts are expensive it makes the hobby less enjoyable because you have to be more careful not to fry stuff while experimenting. And we don't mind so much if the quality is a bit lower, so long as it works.

But when you are manufacturing commercial products it's a different story. Firstly you are usually buying large enough quantities to get better prices, and secondly you can't afford any failures due to 'fake' parts. This is also the area where people looking to cut costs are most likely to fall victim to fraudsters. Scamming hobbyists out of a few bucks probably isn't worth the effort, considering the reputation hit (I won't buy from any eBay seller with less than 99.7% positive feedback).

[legacy]

and we love it!

During old good days (1992-2008) I was there, and it was not that "crap", at least it didn't make the pollution you can see in the above map. Dude, 300 million tons of waste in 2014 !!!!!

You love it. I don't.

[martinayotte]

so,  martinayotte is right in her proposal to stay away from Chinese clones
You have my 100% support in this 

BTW, @Legacy, my real name is "Martin Ayotte", so it should be "HIS proposal" ...

Although I agree with most comments been deluged on my original post, this post was to denounce this specific MAX13487 part, purchased from 2 differents vendors, 50 in one and 25 with another.
Comparing with original parts from MAXIM purchased at Digi-Key, there is one main visual difference : there is no pin1 identifier on the clones, but MAXIM ones as a small dot in the plastic.

I've purchased a lot of stuff from China, but it is the first time I've faced clones, although maybe I did before but not facing any issues.
Of course, sometime, it could be simply real parts but coming cheaper because of inventory surplus, like I've purchased STM32F103C8 and they don't seems to be cloned and working very well.

But I agree that I should try to keep those environment or human being issues always in mind.

That been said, that remind me that even well established US companies don't care sometime, especially about customers. A story maybe known/faced by some of you here :

Few years ago, Texas Instrument came out with a crappy WiFi module named CC3000, that had firmware subcontracted in India, probably by underpaid engineers.
I've tried using that module few years ago, and quickly figured out that it was crappy.
Implementing a simple WebServer and having a GET request from PC send to it every 10 seconds was resulting in complete hang every few hours, where only a full reset or power recycle.
Seeing several posts about the same issue on TI Forum, and posting myself, after a 8 month thread, some TI moderator finally end up saying "this bug won't be fix, simply change your design to newer CC3100".
Really frustrating answer, I'm trying to avoid any TI product since then. And about my WiFi needs, it since then been filed by a chinese products, the well known ESP8266 and more recently ESP32.

[martinayotte]

Thought it was "MartinA"-"Yotte", which is a female name. Sorry 

No worries ... BTW, as a side note, "Ayotte" family name is first coming from France, then to Quebec 3 centuries ago, and some Ayottes even migrated to USA during economic crisis at the end of 19th century or beginning of 20th. Most of their descendants don't even speak french anymore, I've been in contact with one recently because he wrongly type his gmail.com address and I've received his income tax report  .
Another Ayotte are well known in music industry, by STIX, SimpleMind, TheGuestWho, and other : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ayotte_Drums

[ehughes]

Sorry for the tangent but I saw "chinese" and "Maxim" in the same sentence.   

Here is a good question... Why is Maxim's stuff so bloody expensive?     Some of there simplest products are more expensive then a 32-bit microcontroller!

[perieanuo]

Sorry for the tangent but I saw "chinese" and "Maxim" in the same sentence.   

Here is a good question... Why is Maxim's stuff so bloody expensive?     Some of there simplest products are more expensive then a 32-bit microcontroller!

Because of us we're too lazy to implement the solution,like the max31855 specific case.in fact,nothing stopped me to put an good analog solution in place followed by ADC treatment it was simple,stable,well tested in years of industry,but stupid me I surfed the SPI way this time,that doesn't bring more simplicity or value.and it's moooore expensive and very ´touchy'.
And that's the case in 80-90% of the cases.
Lesson learned next time a little struggle with analog and that's all folks.
Best regards,Pierre


Envoyé de mon iPad en utilisant Tapatalk

[Kalvin]

As a side note, Chinese sellers call genuine chips "imported", and known good clones "high quality". All other chips are lottery.

Thanks to point this out.

[JPortici]

As a side note, Chinese sellers call genuine chips "imported", and known good clones "high quality". All other chips are lottery.

this explain a lot of things. what do they mean when they use the phrase "shenzen quality"? (i have an idea or two)