The best microcontroller development environement

[Seg]

The point is that if you insist on understanding everything you use, there is very little you can use.

If you don't seek to understand everything you use, you are not an engineer.

[dannyf]

If you don't seek to understand everything you use, you are not an engineer.

I would actually flip that statement: if you seek to understand everything you use, you cannot be an engineer.

We have limited capabilities and our job is to maximize returns on those capabilities, through specialization. If you try to understand everything you use, you have understood nothing.

[timb]

I do agree that GCC is really bloated. The code is almost unreadable for 99% of developers out there, so you have a very small subset of people who can actually work on it.

For C-like languages, CLANG/LLVM is the way to go. It's a lot faster and was designed from the ground up for use with IDEs (no FOLD process like GCC, so late compile debugging is a lot easier). There's also the fact that Apple, Google and other big companies are behind the primary development of it, and have invest hundreds of millions of dollars, which should tell you it's pretty well supported.

[madshaman]

I do agree that GCC is really bloated. The code is almost unreadable for 99% of developers out there, so you have a very small subset of people who can actually work on it.

For C-like languages, CLANG/LLVM is the way to go. It's a lot faster and was designed from the ground up for use with IDEs (no FOLD process like GCC, so late compile debugging is a lot easier). There's also the fact that Apple, Google and other big companies are behind the primary development of it, and have invest hundreds of millions of dollars, which should tell you it's pretty well supported.

I wouldn't use Apple as a shining example of good software development; not any more..

[timb]

 

Really? Why? (And don't give me that "iOS is a Walled Garden" load of BS. iTunes doesn't count, either.)

Last time I checked they had the most advanced desktop OS in the world. That they give away. For free.

[madshaman]

Really? Why? (And don't give me that "iOS is a Walled Garden" load of BS. iTunes doesn't count, either.)

Last time I checked they had the most advanced desktop OS in the world. That they give away. For free.

Obviously it's just my opinion.  All I would say is that it's not the fault of the engineers, more the result of market pressure and a slow change of corporate culture after the late Steve Jobs left.

[madshaman]

Last time I checked they had the most advanced desktop OS in the world. That they give away. For free.

I'm not saying you are wrong, but how did you "check" ?

[timb]

Right, but what exactly?

They just did a major overhaul of iOS and OS X, both to critical acclaim. Is it because they haven't released some revolutionary "One More Thing" piece of hardware? I'm sure they've got stuff in the pipeline, plus we've gotten stuff like the iPad Air and New Mac Pro recently.

Aside from getting rid of skeuomorphism in the UI (which was a positive change) I think Tim Cook is running the company exactly like Steve Jobs hoped for. Keep in mind, no one will ever be able to live up to the image of Jobs. In fact, he specifically said that he expected Cook to run the company his own way. The last thing he wanted was for his replacement to say "Is this what Steve would do?" about everything. He wouldn't have left him in charge if he wasn't 110% confident in his ability to take Apple into the future.

[ddavidebor]

Xcode is the best ide for computer.

For microcontroller.... Mplad ide is good but it could be a lot better

[timb]

Last time I checked they had the most advanced desktop OS in the world. That they give away. For free.

I'm not saying you are wrong, but how did you "check" ?

Just a figure of speech. That said, I do keep up on OS development and if you weigh a number of factors* I'd say OS X Mavericks comes out ahead of anything else on the market.

*Speed, Stability, Power Management, GUI, Kernel, Quality of Available Software & Development Tools, Portability, Ease of Use, Power User Features, Frameworks, Underlying Components

[madshaman]

My feeling is the level of polish, both in the level of bugs at release time and in the aesthetics of the UI has degraded over time.  As for the OS itself, I couldn't say it's vastly superior to any other bsd unix; but this is my opinion.

If it makes you feel better, all my laptops are Macs, use an iPhone 5 and have numerous iPads and AppleTVs.

My opinion is based on the general aesthetic feeling I get when using MacOSX and iOS now as opposed to in the past; from a user perspective.

Apple has many great engineers and designers; I would forward the opinion that their code is at least as good as MS's or Google's.  I feel that in general, industry-wide, lack of attention to detail is eroding the level of quality of all products; new features/bell-and-whistles aside.

[remixed123]

Hehe...this discussion has moved on from "the best microcontroller development environment"

Oh well I guess this is a good time to say,  that I may use TI pretty much exclusively for my microcontroller development....but that takes up only 50% of  my time, the other 50% is spent developing IOS apps that work with the microcontroller. There is nothing like switching from an advanced and modern IDE like Xcode which is all about developing code for the UI/UX to the raw power of ANSI C coding in an Eclipse environment.

[madshaman]

Hehe...this discussion has moved on from "the best microcontroller development environment"

Oh well I guess this is a good time to say,  that I may use TI pretty much exclusively for my microcontroller development....but that takes up only 50% of  my time, the other 50% is spent developing IOS apps that work with the microcontroller. There is nothing like switching from an advanced and modern IDE like Xcode which is all about developing code for the UI/UX to the raw power of ANSI C coding in an Eclipse environment.

I think it's all about personal preference.  I prefer a bare-bones editor with syntax highlighting and controlling the make process explicitly with a make file.

I will admit that when developing on iOS or MacOSX I just use the IDE and certainly wouldn't edit xib files with a text editor.

[timb]

I write all my embedded code in Quick Basic 4.5 and just run it in an x86 SoftCore on an FPGA.

[remixed123]

I think it's all about personal preference.  I prefer a bare-bones editor with syntax highlighting and controlling the make process explicitly with a make file.

I will admit that when developing on iOS or MacOSX I just use the IDE and certainly wouldn't edit xib files with a text editor.

I actually admit a far bit of ignorance about the bare-bones development process. Do you get features like inline debugging? To me that is an absolutely essential feature, and without I would expect coding would take significantly longer, especially when something strange is happening. Or are there other techniques to help with the difficult bugs?

Hehe....using the Xcode UI editor....that's the thin edge of the wedge and could lead to developing Windows Forms programs in Visual Studio .Net...

[resistor]

Do you get features like inline debugging?

It depends.  Emacs has a very good gdb integration mode, which will give you a fairly similar experience to what you'd see in an IDE.  I personally don't use any integration between my debugger and my editor.  The debugger prints the last N lines of code whenever it hits a breakpoint, and prints the current line as I step through it.  I can query the values of variables at any point.  I generally have my editor open right next to it for cross-referencing as needed.

To me that is an absolutely essential feature, and without I would expect coding would take significantly longer, especially when something strange is happening. Or are there other techniques to help with the difficult bugs?

It's all what you're used to.  Some people find a UI essential; some people can debug anything with a single printf.  Personally, I use a command line debugger with heavy use of conditional breakpoints.

[remixed123]

There is one free and open source tool I use and absolutely swear by, as do a large percentage of developers, and that is Git!

I of course prefer to use it with a GUI integrated into the IDE and managed via github, bitbucket or stash.

Git is the best thing Linus created! I see that messy confusion called Linux as a practice opportunity for Linus to create the beautifully functional Git 

[westfw]

Xcode is the best ide for computer.  ...For microcontroller.

Do you think that Xcode is a bad IDE for microcontrollers, or were you just unaware that there are major projects around that allow you to use XCode for micros?

[ddavidebor]

Xcode is the best ide for computer.  ...For microcontroller.

Do you think that Xcode is a bad IDE for microcontrollers, or were you just unaware that there are major projects around that allow you to use XCode for micros?

None of those. You've actually rearranged my sentence.

[madshaman]

Since the real answer to OP's question is "whatever works best for *you*", maybe a better way to approach this kind of question is to ask:

"I'm new to uC development environments, I'm thinking of trying 'x', is this a fundamentally bad choice?  Am I asking for trouble?"

I'm thinking posing the question this way would yield more consensus among those who answer.

[remixed123]

Aaaagh, its so hard to choose. ARM/PIC/AVR/8051. I thought maybe I should approach it from the direction of the development environment.

What is the most feature rich development environment for microcontrollers on the market.
I'm looking for things such as debug features, auto code generation, 21st century code editor,simulations, etc.

Let's look at the OPs original question....

From this, we can quickly reject gcc, and in fact would could reject every development environment mentioned in this thread. As none have auto code generation built in, that I am aware of.....at best some will be able to have some code auto generated using UML models. As for simulations, I am not sure if the OP means simulator, as many will have an MCU simulator, but simulations are another area completely, and again, I am not aware of any of the IDEs mentioned having one.

Looks like we failed on providing a decent answer to the original question....and got a little side tracked   

[alm]

The Imagecraft and CodeVisionAVR IDEs offer wizards that generate code for (mostly) initializing peripherals.

[Didier9]

I cannot necessarily comment on all your requirements, but my favorite 8 bit environment for the last 10 years has been the Silabs IDE and their 8051 family.
They cover the whole gamut from a small 11 pin device to 144 pins monsters with excellent analog functions and fast processing (25MIPS minimum up to 100MIPs), the fastest 8051's I have seen.
The IDE is well done and solid. They support the usual suspects tool manufacturers including Keil and the free SDCC. The debugger works well and is non-intrusive. Most devices are programmed and debugged via 2 pins, one being the reset and the other that can be shared with normal functions when not debugging.
They all have a 25 MHz precision oscillator such that a crystal is usually not necessary. Those that run faster than that have a PLL.
The IDE is fully functional and fairly bug-free, but aside from solidity, not something to write home about.
All in all, a very functional package that is essentially free (if you use SDCC).
Silabs has set a very high standard with working tools and code examples that run out of the box with a minimum of fuss (that applies to their Cortex-M3 line as well), unlike many of the ARM wannabees these days.
Probably the only thing negative I can say is that they do not have any DIP packages, so not so great for hobbyists. However, many of their chips are available on a small development tool called the Toolstick. They have toolsticks for most of their chip families and they usually cost about $10, so for prototyping, they are ideal.

[dannyf]

Silabs IDE and their 8051 family

= older Keil C51?

[michaelym]

I cannot necessarily comment on all your requirements, but my favorite 8 bit environment for the last 10 years has been the Silabs IDE and their 8051 family.
They cover the whole gamut from a small 11 pin device to 144 pins monsters with excellent analog functions and fast processing (25MIPS minimum up to 100MIPs), the fastest 8051's I have seen.
The IDE is well done and solid. They support the usual suspects tool manufacturers including Keil and the free SDCC. The debugger works well and is non-intrusive. Most devices are programmed and debugged via 2 pins, one being the reset and the other that can be shared with normal functions when not debugging.
They all have a 25 MHz precision oscillator such that a crystal is usually not necessary. Those that run faster than that have a PLL.
The IDE is fully functional and fairly bug-free, but aside from solidity, not something to write home about.
All in all, a very functional package that is essentially free (if you use SDCC).
Silabs has set a very high standard with working tools and code examples that run out of the box with a minimum of fuss (that applies to their Cortex-M3 line as well), unlike many of the ARM wannabees these days.
Probably the only thing negative I can say is that they do not have any DIP packages, so not so great for hobbyists. However, many of their chips are available on a small development tool called the Toolstick. They have toolsticks for most of their chip families and they usually cost about $10, so for prototyping, they are ideal.

I actually currently use the SiLabs IDE, but I'm looking for an upgrade because it seems primitive compared to other environments I've glanced at.