What Microchip hides from Dave after his Pickit3 video, yes new Pickit4 :)

[ucanel]

http://www.microchip.com/Developmenttools/ProductDetails.aspx?PartNO=PG164140
  I saw Microchip new Pickit4 announcement,
first thing come to my mind is Dave's Pickit3 video.
I wonder will Dave give us a chance to see him struggling with the
new Pickit4, maybe along with uCalc uWatch or uSupply.
There is a chance that microchip already send a Mailbag
just hiding around somewhere in Dave's Lab who knows.

I'm just kidding,
I would like to see a video for Pickit4 from Dave.

RaMu | ucanel

[thm_w]

I like the SD card idea, I'm sure that could be useful with the right software. Also sure that Mike will get his hands on one and do a good review.

The MPLAB PICkit 4 In-Circuit Debugger/Programmer supports many, but not all, PIC MCUs and dsPIC DSCs at this time. The firmware is continually being upgraded to add support for new devices. To request priority device support or to report issues, email: PICkit4_Update@microchip.com

"PIC MCU" apparently includes AVR and SAM ARM mcu's which is really confusing. But it sounds like we might be lucky and get a lower cost atmel SWD programmer (for commercial use, jlink is cheaper for edu):

Along with a wider target voltage, the MPLAB PICkit 4 supports advanced interfaces such as 4-wire JTAG and Serial Wire Debug

http://ww1.microchip.com/downloads/en/DeviceDoc/00002618A.pdf

[stj]

it even comes with stickers!! /sarc

but seriously, no schematic yet - so not an open design?

[NiHaoMike]

Didn't he do a joke video of the "prototype" PICkit 4 some years back saying that PIC and AVR would be unified? How surprising to see it start to come true!

Also sure that Mike will get his hands on one and do a good review

I'll gladly take one if they're giving some away, but otherwise I'll stick with my PICkit 3 until I really need to use a part it doesn't support. (For the record, the PICkit 3 is pretty good although I don't like how the programmer itself has to be reflashed for different chip families. Really annoying when working on a design that has multiple PICs of different families!)

[KL27x]

I hope they manage to keep the bloat and bugs out of this version. 

but seriously, no schematic yet - so not an open design?

If it's as complicated as the PK3, I don't really care. It's not like you'd make one, yourself. Cheap clones are fine and all, but for $57.00 (and a removeable SD card), I can live with that.

[hans]

Quite interested to see the teardown of this thing. I wonder what MCU/chipsets they used now that the Microchip design team has access to all the fancy Atmel ARM and AVR parts..

Also I hope they have fitted a part that is large enough to support all programming paradigms at once. The frequent reflashing of PICKIT3 between series was agonizing with it's slow- and buginess.


But yes, funny that the April fools joke of Dave many moons ago finally became true.

[JPortici]

Quite interested to see the teardown of this thing.

me too!

of course there's no support (yet) for almost all the parts that i use (dsPICs with codeguard) but the feature list is interesting (they added JTAG!)

[mikeselectricstuff]

Just ordered one...

[jpanhalt]

Notably absent from the announcement is whether it will be compatible with MPLAB 8.92.   I suspect it will not be.

[mikeselectricstuff]

I can't imagine for a second that it would be compatible with MPLAB 8.x

[tszaboo]

Didn't he do a joke video of the "prototype" PICkit 4 some years back saying that PIC and AVR would be unified? How surprising to see it start to come true!

Also sure that Mike will get his hands on one and do a good review

I'll gladly take one if they're giving some away, but otherwise I'll stick with my PICkit 3 until I really need to use a part it doesn't support. (For the record, the PICkit 3 is pretty good although I don't like how the programmer itself has to be reflashed for different chip families. Really annoying when working on a design that has multiple PICs of different families!)

Actually, I think they should release something that would support all AVR/ARM/PIC micro in their lineup. After all this is mostly software.

[JPortici]

http://www.globenewswire.com/news-release/2018/02/27/1395611/0/en/Low-Cost-Debugging-and-Programming-is-Now-Faster-and-More-Feature-Rich-with-MPLAB-PICkit-4-Development-Tool.html

This low-cost programming and debugging solution is ideal for those designing in the 8-bit space, but it is also perfectly suited for 16- and 32-bit development due, in part, to its 300 MHz, high-performance ATSAME70Q21B microcontroller on board

[Maxlor]

If you're ordering from microchipdirect.com, the code EW2018DT should give you 25% off.

[JanJansen]

Also I hope they have fitted a part that is large enough to support all programming paradigms at once. The frequent reflashing of PICKIT3 between series was agonizing with it's slow- and buginess.

You mean when programming another chip then it starts : downloading AP...
When i install the MPLABX from version 3 and up it will hang right there,
if they fix it i might be able to install the latest MPLAB.

[KL27x]

^ I believe I encountered that problem, at first.

I think w/e firmware is initially loaded on the programmer can be incompatible with the version of IPE/X you are using, for instance. So when it starts the family/device download, it fails to work.

If this is the same problem I had, you can fix it by selecting "manual firmware update" and finding the firmware suite file which comes with your version of X/IPE, which IIRC is in a folder called PK3. It is maybe in a compressed .JAR file. The name is something along this line, with 6 digit number as follows:

0x.xx.xx.jar   

(it might have a prefix like "fw_", but the memory is hazy) Incidentally, this 6 digit number will pop up in the dialog window when you first connect your programmer as "firmware suite 0x.xx.xx," or something along those line. And I bet anything the number that pops up is lower than what is included in your version of X/IPE. I think early adopters probably didn't run into this problem. I waited a couple years before trying out X and PK3... and if you get an old stock PK3 and downloaded say a specific version of X, I think this is where you get this issue. Maybe the latest version of software fixes this hole in the update bridge. But I had to do this with my genuine and my clones.

You do not need the whole image or another programmer to burn it. It's just a matter of clicking on the right things. The only way to figure this out, though, is to skim the forum thread and find your particular problem(s). I never found any official documentation that would have helped me.

[mikeselectricstuff]

Just received one - no time to play at the moment, just some pics.
Front button is stupid - you squeeze the case to operate it, which makes it harder to use handheld in "to-go" mode with a spring-probe on the end
Similar wanky light-guide to ICD4
USB Micro

8 pin connector ( vs. 6) so presumably support for Atmel and maybe JTAG. Not checked yet but If the first 5 don't match the old pinout i will not be happy.

And still no bloody pinouts printed on the case.

[hans]

Well, it should support 5 and 6-pin ICSP interfaces:

Supports advanced interfaces such as 4-wire JTAG and Serial Wire Debug with streaming Data Gateway

Backward compatible for demo boards, headers and target systems using 2-wire JTAG and ICSP

Also, the product is still in progress:

An additional micro SD card slot and the ability to be self-powered from the target means you can take your code with you and program on the go.*
[..]
* This functionality is coming soon with firmware update of the product through MPLAB X IDE.

The MPLAB PICkit 4 In-Circuit Debugger/Programmer supports many, but not all, PIC MCUs and dsPIC DSCs at this time. The firmware is continually being upgraded to add support for new devices. To request priority device support or to report issues, email: PICkit4_Update@microchip.com

Curiously there is also no real datasheet on the product page yet, which should describe e.g. pinouts for JTAG mode and/or the extended 2 pins.


Also apparently they are bragging about the use of the Atmel Cortex m7 300MHz CPU in this programmer (and USB2.0 High-Speed), making it much faster.
Sounds like a claim to be tested, perhaps even compare it with the PICKIT 2 which was often faster [for me in MPLAB X] to use than PICKIT 3.

[igendel]

Not checked yet but If the first 5 don't match the old pinout i will not be happy.

The latest video from Microchip about the PICKIT4 said the first 6 pins match the old pinout.
I'm still waiting for someone to figure out if this needs constant firmware uploading when switching between devices. If not, I'll be buying it immediately

[Maxlor]

8 pin connector ( vs. 6) so presumably support for Atmel and maybe JTAG.

The Microchip representative at Embedded World told me that JTAG is exactly what those are for, and that it'll work in a few months. I wonder... is it too much to hope for that OpenOCD will support the PICKit4 eventually, turning it into a universal programmer? 

[hans]

I think that completely depends on the complexity of setup and protocol attached to the PICKIT4. I'm sure it will be figured out at some point; however if programming executives are needed to switch target families then I'm not so sure.

However, ofcourse there could also be a firmware-level protection in the device. E.g. when setting up a JTAG connection, the device initiates a read device ID itself, and if it does not match the MicroChip/Atmel vendor ID will abort all further JTAG commands...

[mikeselectricstuff]

It does not appear to download new FW when changing device family.
An issue I've found is that it appears to keep  the PGC/PGD pins set as outputs when idle which casues bus clash and power draw

I've not yet found any info on the SD card functionality.

No more time to play

[BrianHG]

Just received one - no time to play at the moment, just some pics.
Front button is stupid - you squeeze the case to operate it, which makes it harder to use handheld in "to-go" mode with a spring-probe on the end
Similar wanky light-guide to ICD4
USB Micro

8 pin connector ( vs. 6) so presumably support for Atmel and maybe JTAG. Not checked yet but If the first 5 don't match the old pinout i will not be happy.

And still no bloody pinouts printed on the case.

Are they seriously expecting that button and squeezing that case to last thousands of cycles.

[tszaboo]

The Pickit 4 has a Atmel SAM microcontroller in it.
Oh the irony...

[KL27x]

An issue I've found is that it appears to keep  the PGC/PGD pins set as outputs when idle which casues bus clash and power draw

I wasn't aware that the PK3 DIDN'T do this. The PK2 has low impedance to ground on the PGC/D pins when idle, too. If you're keen enough to fix this problem, you can. I did it on my ole PK2 used for dev work using 2 SSR and a micro that triggers them when Vpp is detected and holds them closed for X amount of time after Vpp is no longer detected. (There's a couple transistors on the PK3 schematic that short the PGC/D to ground, and I thought I could get creative and just interrupt those at their gates/bases, but this didn't work, and I had to use 2x SSR).

Front button is stupid - you squeeze the case to operate it, which makes it harder to use handheld in "to-go" mode with a spring-probe on the end

This is an even easier fix. Esp since this device has a new 8 pin header on it, already, and even potentially has a different pinout (which I highly doubt they'd do that... but...)

What I do to my PK2 and 3's is to open the case and remove the female 6 pin header. Not the pins, just the plastic part. File out the case on one side to fit a 7 pin header. Then take a 7 pin header, remove 6 of the pins, and slide it on. Jumper wire the new pin7 to the button trace. Then put a button right on your spring probe.

Heck, my PK2 have had removeable EEPROM for a decade, before this SD card thing came out.

I'm surprised you got your PK4 already. When I order it, it says it will ship mid March.

[mikeselectricstuff]

An issue I've found is that it appears to keep  the PGC/PGD pins set as outputs when idle which casues bus clash and power draw

I wasn't aware that the PK3 DIDN'T do this. The PK2 has low impedance to ground on the PGC/D pins when idle, too. If you're keen enough to fix this problem, you can. I did it on my ole PK2 used for dev work using 2 SSR and a micro that triggers them when Vpp is detected and holds them open for X amount of time after Vpp is no longer detected. (There's a couple transistors on the pcb that short to ground, and I though I could get creative and just interrupt those, but this wasn't enough, and I had to use 2x SSR).

I frequently use an ISP pin to transmit UART debug output ( using in programmer mode, not debugger, obviously) - no reason the programmer should be driving the pins when not active. 
There might be a setting somewhere to control this

I'm surprised you got your PK4 already. When I order it, it says it will ship mid March.

Plenty showing in stock at Microchip direct