226 of my videos copied

[EEVblog]

by this bastard:
https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=Minna+Clakley+eevblog

[Jay_Diddy_B]

Hi,
The Bastard seems to have copied a bunch of other videos as well as yours.

WTF .. Wow That's Fantastic !!

I wonder what he had against the other 284 Videos? 

Why would he do that?  Do you get advertising dollars from the You tube videos?

Jay_Diddy_B

[EEVblog]

Why would he do that?  Do you get advertising dollars from the You tube videos?

Not from his uploads, no, he does.

[PeterG]

Seems this clown has uploaded all the videos in the last 24 hours.
Cant see any original content at all.

[Psi]

I know someone who works at Google if needed, but it should be pretty simple to get them removed through normal channels.

[JoeyP]

Now you have a small taste of how Saleae and others feel when companies in china make clones of their hardware which take advantage of their hard-earned, copyrighted software and other technology. You know - the clones that people often discuss/promote in this very forum. Feels great don't it?

The usual rationalization I've heard for the clones is "They should have had more security to prevent it. If they allow me to steal the fruits of their efforts, then I'm entitled to do so". Does that all still make sense to you now?

I'm sure this post will draw vitriol, and all kinds of rationalizations, but think about it next time you promote/justify a clone.

[c4757p]

Speaking of non-sequiturs, purple!!!

[Psi]

The issue is more complex than that.

Sometimes the official product is $1k and the clone is $100  etc...
If a hobbiest could never afford the official version then buying the clone doesn't take money from the official company.

[JoeyP]

First rationalization:

The issue is more complex than that.

Sometimes the official product is $1k and the clone is $50.
A hobbiest often can't afford $1k so the sale of a clone doesn't take money from the official company.

The Saleae product is $149. Anyone who genuinely needs it can certainly afford that price.

BTW, I'm not associated with Saleae in any way (and don't even own their product). I just see them as an excellent example.

[Psi]

The Saleae product is $149. Anyone who genuinely needs it can certainly afford that price.

Yes, i wasn't thinking of the Saleae.  It's price is reasonable.

[EEVblog]

Now you have a small taste of how Saleae and others feel when companies in china make clones of their hardware which take advantage of their hard-earned, copyrighted software and other technology. You know - the clones that people often discuss/promote in this very forum. Feels great don't it?
The usual rationalization I've heard for the clones is "They should have had more security to prevent it. If they allow me to steal the fruits of their efforts, then I'm entitled to do so". Does that all still make sense to you now?
I'm sure this post will draw vitriol, and all kinds of rationalizations, but think about it next time you promote/justify a clone.

Given the thread this in is. I can only assuming you are talking directly to me here?

[c4757p]

You're like the people who go on cat videos and comment bitching about liberals. For god's sake, Dave hasn't promoted this, many of us do not, and this isn't what this thread is about anyway. Go take it up with someone who promotes cheap clones.

[JoeyP]

Given the thread this in is. I can only assuming you are talking directly to me here?

Yes, and mean no disrespect, but you are in prime condition to appreciate the issue at this moment.

[JoeyP]

You're like the people who go on cat videos and comment bitching about liberals. For god's sake, Dave hasn't promoted this, many of us do not, and this isn't what this thread is about anyway. Go take it up with someone who promotes cheap clones.

I have seen cheap clones promoted in many threads in this forum, and Dave has the direct ability/right to set policy as to what is appropriate. I've also seen comments from him which to me, appear to defend them. I suspect one is being constructed at this very moment.

[c4757p]

I have seen cheap clones promoted in many threads in this forum, and Dave has the direct ability/right to set policy as to what is appropriate.

If Dave starts removing things he does not agree with I will leave, and I suspect a lot of other people will as well.

[ve7xen]

Now you have a small taste of how Saleae and others feel when companies in china make clones of their hardware which take advantage of their hard-earned, copyrighted software and other technology. You know - the clones that people often discuss/promote in this very forum. Feels great don't it?

Nobody is distributing their protected work by cloning the hardware. Reverse engineering is explicitly protected. This is an ignorant and silly analogy to draw. Circuit designs are not protected. Protocol designs are not protected. If the software Salae distributes for free happens to work with unsupported hardware that has been reverse engineered, no wrong has been done.

Please GTFO with this off topic trolling BS.

[EEVblog]

Yes, and mean no disrespect, but you are in prime condition to appreciate the issue at this moment.

When have I never appreciated this issue?
When have I ever promoted this clone?
Do you think it's wrong that I allow the clones to be discussed on this forum?

Let me set you straight.
This is a very hands-off essentially self-moderated forum. I can only moderate posts that are reported or that I see. And in the case of this clone I don't think I'd ever have to or want to moderate such a mention, because the community will do it for me. And IMO, that is a better result than the moderators deleting every mention of these clones. Why? Because then it highlights the issue, promotes discussion, and people then might just understand and learn why it's wrong. If you attempt to just hide the issue, none of that happens.

[Corporate666]

You're like the people who go on cat videos and comment bitching about liberals. For god's sake, Dave hasn't promoted this, many of us do not, and this isn't what this thread is about anyway. Go take it up with someone who promotes cheap clones.

I have seen cheap clones promoted in many threads in this forum, and Dave has the direct ability/right to set policy as to what is appropriate. I've also seen comments from him which to me, appear to defend them. I suspect one is being constructed at this very moment.

Are you saying Dave is getting a taste of his own medicine?  I haven't seen him promoting "clones".  I remember one guy posting a link to a Salae copy for sale and he got pretty roundly flayed for trying to pass it off as the real thing.

I think if you're talking about the Lecroy (and was it Atten?  Siglent?) waveform generators, those are not copyright infringements.

[c4757p]

By the way, Joey, I agree with you and think you're an ass... so before you start crying about how everyone you're arguing against tries to silence you and blah blah blah....

[EEVblog]

I've also seen comments from him which to me, appear to defend them.

List them.
I know you can't because they do not exist. But prove me wrong.
I do not support the salae logic clone, and never have.

I suspect one is being constructed at this very moment.

My how foolish you look now. 

[JoeyP]

When have I never appreciated this issue?

I've never seen you appreciate it, but admittedly haven't read every post you've ever made. I did read many of your posts regarding hacking of the Rigol units to get features developed by Rigol, but which were not included in the particular purchased model - which means obtaining them against the will of the manufacturer (ya ya, I've heard the whole "it's a marketing scheme" argument - not buying it). You seemed very much to defend that practice.

Here's the bottom line for me: If you are benefiting from others' development efforts against their wishes, you are stealing. Period. Whether it's hacking the security of feature codes for an Agilent scope, hacking the hardware to change a Rigol scope into another member of their family with higher performance, or using the software of someone like Saleae with a clone, you are benefiting from development efforts without paying for them. I realize that many in this forum don't agree with me, but in my mind that's theft. Just like the person who copied your videos is stealing by benefiting from your efforts against your will. I bring it up at this time in this thread because I think you can better appreciate the issue after being stung by it personally.

When have I ever promoted this clone?
Do you think it's wrong that I allow the clones to be discussed on this forum?

I didn't say you personally promoted this particular clone. I said that this and others are often promoted in your forum, and that you do have a choice in the matter (as policy maker). Yes, I do think it's wrong to allow them to be promoted. I have not seen any hesitance on your part to delete posts with which you didn't agree either for policy reasons (which is understandable), or political persuasion (or so it seems). You certainly have that right because it's your forum.

Let me set you straight.
This is a very hands-off essentially self-moderated forum. I can only moderate posts that are reported or that I see. And in the case of this clone I don't think I'd ever have to or want to moderate such a mention, because the community will do it for me. And IMO, that is a better result than the moderators deleting every mention of these clones. Why? Because then it highlights the issue, promotes discussion, and people then might just understand and learn why it's wrong. If you attempt to just hide the issue, none of that happens.

That's a great theory, but my observation is that it just doesn't turn out that way in this forum. One or two will chime in about how it's wrong, but will be badgered for their comments, and the discussion of the clones goes on unimpeded and with great enthusiasm. You personally could change that - if in no other way than to promote the idea that it's actually wrong.

If you're saying that there's been no action because you haven't been aware of the posts, then I'd be happy to point them out to you in future.

[JoeyP]

By the way, Joey, I agree with you and think you're an ass... so before you start crying about how everyone you're arguing against tries to silence you and blah blah blah....

By the way c4757p, I don't care.

[c4757p]

Here's the bottom line for me: If you are benefiting from others' development efforts against their wishes, you are stealing. Period. Whether it's hacking the security of feature codes for an Agilent scope, hacking the hardware to change a Rigol scope into another member of their family with higher performance, or using the software of someone like Saleae with a clone, you are benefiting from development efforts without paying for them. I realize that many in this forum don't agree with me, but in my mind that's theft. Just like the person who copied your videos is stealing by benefiting from your efforts against your will. I bring it up at this time in this thread because I think you can better appreciate the issue after being stung by it personally.

Surely you can see that for someone who does not agree with your definition of theft, that is not equivalent to directly copying someone's videos.....? Because most of us do not agree with that.

[Corporate666]

Here's the bottom line for me: If you are benefiting from others' development efforts against their wishes, you are stealing. Period. Whether it's hacking the security of feature codes for an Agilent scope, hacking the hardware to change a Rigol scope into another member of their family with higher performance, or using the software of someone like Saleae with a clone, you are benefiting from development efforts without paying for them. I realize that many in this forum don't agree with me, but in my mind that's theft. Just like the person who copied your videos is stealing by benefiting from your efforts against your will. I bring it up at this time in this thread because I think you can better appreciate the issue after being stung by it personally.

Whenever people go for the "it's stealing" argument, they automatically lose the debate.

There is a reason that IP theft and tangible property theft are very different.  While I am sure Dave is not happy that someone infringed his copyrights by taking his videos, he is not as upset as he would be if he showed up at the lab tomorrow and it was cleaned out.

When people want to equate IP infringement with theft, they are - by definition - overstating their case.  It's just like when people drag out hitler/nazi references whenever they feel wronged 

[JoeyP]

Whenever people go for the "it's stealing" argument, they automatically lose the debate.

There is a reason that IP theft and tangible property theft are very different.  While I am sure Dave is not happy that someone infringed his copyrights by taking his videos, he is not as upset as he would be if he showed up at the lab tomorrow and it was cleaned out.

When people want to equate IP infringement with theft, they are - by definition - overstating their case.  It's just like when people drag out hitler/nazi references whenever they feel wronged 

I don't agree. If someone cleans out my lab, I can buy new stuff. But for example, if someone happened to have just one great idea in their life, and turned it into a product, and someone killed it with a clone - they've taken away that person's livelihood, which is far more valuable than the stuff in a lab. When you steal IP, you steal "time" spent developing it. Since we don't live forever, time is far more precious than that "tangible" stuff in the lab.