Author Topic: New Banned Feature  (Read 3232 times)

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Offline EEVblog

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New Banned Feature
« on: November 07, 2017, 10:10:34 pm »
A new plugin has been installed to show "Banned" under a users profile info on the left:
http://www.eevblog.com/forum/manufacture/video-showing-4l-pcb-manufacturing-process/msg1255903/#msg1255903
Makes it clear to everyone that account is now banned.
 
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Offline MK14

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Re: New Banned Feature
« Reply #1 on: November 07, 2017, 10:14:40 pm »
One quick question.
If someone is suspended (temporarily banned), for say a week or two. Will that still be shown ?
 

Offline alanb

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Re: New Banned Feature
« Reply #2 on: November 07, 2017, 10:18:11 pm »
How did frequent contributor 'Scientist' get them self banned? What was the offence?
 

Offline ChrisLX200

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Re: New Banned Feature
« Reply #3 on: November 07, 2017, 10:32:39 pm »
If their account is removed don't all their posts also get removed from the forum? (stupid question really, clearly they don't :) )
 

Offline Muttley Snickers

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Re: New Banned Feature
« Reply #4 on: November 07, 2017, 11:24:09 pm »
One of those banned members still retains a link to their website just below where the avatar image would normally be, it's the planet icon on the left of screen, this might also need attention.
One smart cookie, better make that two for good measure.
 

Offline EEVblog

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Re: New Banned Feature
« Reply #5 on: November 07, 2017, 11:47:19 pm »
If their account is removed don't all their posts also get removed from the forum? (stupid question really, clearly they don't :) )

We don't remove accounts or posts, unless they are bot spammers.
 

Offline Towger

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Re: New Banned Feature
« Reply #6 on: November 08, 2017, 12:15:45 am »
They don't seem to appear in the members list? 

There are however 112 pages of Zeroposters, looks like 'The Purge' has not occurred for a couple of years.
 

Offline janoc

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Re: New Banned Feature
« Reply #7 on: November 08, 2017, 12:34:57 am »
There are however 112 pages of Zeroposters, looks like 'The Purge' has not occurred for a couple of years.

Those don't cost anything, it is literally a single row in a database table. There isn't much need to purge them.
 

Online Brumby

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Re: New Banned Feature
« Reply #8 on: November 08, 2017, 01:52:05 am »
Admittedly, the overhead isn't much - but that's not the only reason to clean things up.

There is an occasional purge done every now and then.  It's been mentioned on the forum before.  Here for example: http://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/how-many-posts-are-required-for-'frequent-contributor'-or-'super-contributor'/msg432371/#msg432371 but there are other, more recent mentions somewhere...
 

Online Brumby

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Re: New Banned Feature
« Reply #9 on: November 08, 2017, 10:51:17 am »
One quick question.
If someone is suspended (temporarily banned), for say a week or two. Will that still be shown ?
I would hope not.

In my experience, the general approach in Moderation has been to keep action against a member as a private matter between the Mods and the member.  This avoids any lingering shadows hanging over a member in the public arena.  They did something that crossed the line, they got punished and, hopefully, learned their lesson.  By keeping the details private, the member can rejoin the community with their dignity intact.  There is absolutely NO need for the rest of the membership to be given any information about the action taken.  All that would do is allow for finger pointing - which isn't particularly constructive.

Certainly, this requires that the membership must have faith in the Moderation team ... that reports are taken seriously and decisions to act or to not act are made based on objective standards.  These decisions may sometimes not feel "right" to those who hold issue with a member, but we have to respect that the Mods are doing the right thing.  For this same reason, discussion about Moderator actions are generally not allowed on forums.

When someone has overstepped the mark sufficiently to earn a permanent ban, then there is little concern about their dignity on the forum, so I have less concern about those being tagged.

There is one potential risk to Admin, however.  When a banned member takes exception to their ban being publicly declared it could be taken as defamation - especially when they can be identified.  I haven't heard of any cases where this has progressed into the legal world, but I have observed one case on another forum that caused the Admin to seek legal counsel.
« Last Edit: November 08, 2017, 10:56:55 am by Brumby »
 
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Offline MK14

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Re: New Banned Feature
« Reply #10 on: November 08, 2017, 10:57:25 am »
Very good point. I did not think about it that way.
I was thinking about it, from the point of view, of noticing (because of a temporary ban). Who might be that horrible troll (or something, maybe more than one person ?, I'm not sure), who keeps on returning, time and time again.

I fully agree with you, very good point. If a "normal" member (non-troll), gets into trouble about something, and hence earns a short holiday on here (temporary ban). It is probably best that others are NOT made aware of it. Since NOT positing for a bit, does not mean someone has been temp banned.
I.e. Apart from the mods here, potentially no one else would know. Maybe one or two people or so, might realise. But that should be ok.
 

Offline gnif

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Re: New Banned Feature
« Reply #11 on: November 08, 2017, 11:43:34 am »
The largest issue is when we get something posted that is absolute trash, and people continue to report the user/post even after they have been banned. Unfortunately the plugin installed is not discriminatory between temporary or permanent bans, but there is a moderator watch/monitor feature that can and does also prevent the user posting, if they have a moderator restriction placed upon the account they will not be flagged as banned.

As for the legal side of things, I am no Lawyer but I can't see how making it known that are user is no longer a welcome part of this community could be considered defamation. If it was making public the reason for the ban, then yeah, I could see that could be potentially an issue, but it is the same as refusing to service someone that enters your shop, you have the right not to do business with them and demand they leave the property.

According to the Australian Law Handbook 2017 on the topic of Defamation:

Quote
Several defences or justifications, including truth, are available

Stating they are banned is a truthful fact.

For example, we had to ban a user just recently, they were privately dealt with first, a warning was issued. The user continued to be rude and was informed as such, the response was absolutely disgusting. They were his own words posted publicly, the ban is self evident as to the reason, and as such can not be seen as defaming him for posting such utter garbage, since he was the one who wrote it.

And finally, seeing that users have been banned on forums has become an expected feature of forums in recent years, I can name several large commercial forums that have been tagging accounts as banned publicly without incident for years now (overclock.net, RealGM, Steam/Valve, EA).
« Last Edit: November 08, 2017, 11:52:08 am by gnif »
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Offline Muttley Snickers

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Re: New Banned Feature
« Reply #12 on: November 08, 2017, 11:49:16 am »
I think the time out simply gives people a good opportunity to take into account the other parties point of view and perhaps reflect on the overall tone of the discussion, I don't think it really matters whether the time out be on public display or not although it could act to dissuade others from taking the same tone thus keeping a thread open. Having a rest might work for those who need it.

For a temporary time out I would much rather no visible indication at all as opposed to this thing.   ::) :P 

 
One smart cookie, better make that two for good measure.
 

Online tautech

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Re: New Banned Feature
« Reply #13 on: November 08, 2017, 11:53:23 am »
You can't foment a lynch mob mentality of public criticism by being discreet about banning someone. Better to get it out in the open so everyone who wants to have a go can pile  on.
Yeah so we have this thread to do so and was locked:
http://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/moderation-reports/

So I started another one in the Supporters lounge where to date discussion has been civil and for general membership you need 1k posts to get access.
http://www.eevblog.com/forum/supporters-lounge/moderation-reports-84488/

The banned flag now does in some way help the viewer as to why a member should suddenly stop posting, it's a good addition.

I think the time out simply gives people a good opportunity to take into account the other parties point of view and perhaps reflect on the overall tone of the discussion, I don't think it really matters whether the time out be on public display or not although it could act to dissuade others from taking the same tone thus keeping a thread open. Having a rest might work for those who need it.

For a temporary time out I would much rather no visible indication at all as opposed to this thing.   ::) :P   
Dave posted that I would be having a couple of days away for something I said, and that was fine with me.
He didn't delete my comment/rant either for the reason you give above Muttley.
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Offline gnif

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Re: New Banned Feature
« Reply #14 on: November 08, 2017, 11:53:54 am »
I think the time out simply gives people a good opportunity to take into account the other parties point of view and perhaps reflect on the overall tone of the discussion, I don't think it really matters whether the time out be on public display or not although it could act to dissuade others from taking the same tone thus keeping a thread open. Having a rest might work for those who need it.

For a temporary time out I would much rather no visible indication at all as opposed to this thing.   ::) :P 



Perhaps, but as I stated above, SMF has a means to issue a temporary restriction on the account, a total ban is a final measure after attempting to resolve the issue with the user (except in the case of spam accounts which are instant banned).
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Online Brumby

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Re: New Banned Feature
« Reply #15 on: November 08, 2017, 12:05:08 pm »
... but there is a moderator watch/monitor feature that can and does also prevent the user posting, if they have a moderator restriction placed upon the account they will not be flagged as banned.
That is all that is needed.

Better to get it out in the open so everyone who wants to have a go can pile  on.
If the Mods have dealt with them - why waste your energies?  Does that sort of thing make you feel good?

I can understand the sentiment - but I have better things to do with my time.


As for the legal side of things, I am no Lawyer but I can't see how making it known that are user is no longer a welcome part of this community could be considered defamation. If it was making public the reason for the ban, then yeah, I could see that could be potentially an issue
Agreed - and that is a risk to forums where Admin/Moderation is not done by objectively minded people.  Just as important: Moderation requires discretion.  EEVblog is safe in that regard, IMO.

I have not encountered any examples of legal action being taken - but as I mentioned, there was an example on another forum where one banned member went ballistic with legal threats.  Nothing came of it, but it did give the Admin a severely stressful time over the matter.
 

Offline EEVblog

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Re: New Banned Feature
« Reply #16 on: November 08, 2017, 02:06:50 pm »
The largest issue is when we get something posted that is absolute trash, and people continue to report the user/post even after they have been banned. Unfortunately the plugin installed is not discriminatory between temporary or permanent bans, but there is a moderator watch/monitor feature that can and does also prevent the user posting, if they have a moderator restriction placed upon the account they will not be flagged as banned.

Yes, I think that "watched" feature could be a way around this.
 

Offline EEVblog

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Re: New Banned Feature
« Reply #17 on: November 08, 2017, 02:10:14 pm »
I have not encountered any examples of legal action being taken - but as I mentioned, there was an example on another forum where one banned member went ballistic with legal threats.  Nothing came of it, but it did give the Admin a severely stressful time over the matter.

Nutters will be nutters regardless.
I've had banned members file false DMCA claims and have the whole site shut down on multiple occasions, posted child porn, attack with targeted automated spam bots etc.
 

Online Brumby

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Re: New Banned Feature
« Reply #18 on: November 08, 2017, 10:04:10 pm »
It was intended as sarcasm. You really need to be careful (more careful) when selecting part of a post to quote.
What I selected was pertinent.  The sarcasm was not at all apparent.

Text based communication does not provide the same level of detail that face to face does - or even over the telephone.  If you want to be sarcastic, then you need to be a bit clearer about it.

Quote
I am opposed to publically naming and shaming on the Internet.
That did not come across in any way, shape or form.
 

Offline Towger

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Re: New Banned Feature
« Reply #19 on: November 09, 2017, 03:18:45 am »
I have not encountered any examples of legal action being taken - but as I mentioned, there was an example on another forum where one banned member went ballistic with legal threats.

It happend to a commercial run Irish forum,  but was taken by a company (concert promoter) who did not like disgruntled customers talking about them.  The form owners put a banner on the top of all threads stating their was to be no discussion of the named company or anything related to them...  It must have been there for almost a year, and drew more negative attention to the company than the one deleted thread.

https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2054965633
https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2054975678

BTW The moderation of it ade place is run by

 

Offline Mr. Scram

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Re: New Banned Feature
« Reply #20 on: November 09, 2017, 11:39:27 am »
Without mentioning specific cases, what would get a user banned? I've seen a number of banned members that seemed to participate in a fruitful manner. They obviously crossed the line in some way, but I've found that various forums tend to have varying boundaries.
 

Offline EEVblog

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Re: New Banned Feature
« Reply #21 on: November 09, 2017, 12:02:06 pm »
Without mentioning specific cases, what would get a user banned?

It's always a case-by-case basis.

Quote
I've seen a number of banned members that seemed to participate in a fruitful manner. They obviously crossed the line in some way, but I've found that various forums tend to have varying boundaries.

Often it's not a "line", it's a "vibe" based on experience of what is likely to create trouble on the forum in the future.
For example, someone who posts 99 out of 100 good technical posts, but 1 out of 100 posts is continually inciting big arguments etc, then they do run the risk of being banned for the good of the community.
 

Offline Mr. Scram

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Re: New Banned Feature
« Reply #22 on: November 09, 2017, 12:08:01 pm »
Often it's not a "line", it's a "vibe" based on experience of what is likely to create trouble on the forum in the future.
For example, someone who posts 99 out of 100 good technical posts, but 1 out of 100 posts is continually inciting big arguments etc, then they do run the risk of being banned for the good of the community.
Thanks for the clarification. Unless the behaviour is obviously intentional, I suspect the user would get a fair warning beforehand?
 

Offline hermit

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Re: New Banned Feature
« Reply #23 on: November 09, 2017, 02:41:40 pm »
Oooo... Shiny new feature.  Must try it out.  I see the Scientology thread got bumped.  That would be the easiest route... ;)
 


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