Author Topic: FORUM DISRUPTION: Server Upgrade  (Read 18091 times)

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Offline gnif

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Re: FORUM DISRUPTION: Server Upgrade
« Reply #75 on: April 29, 2017, 11:45:06 am »
Yesterday afternoon some time.

Strange, I only see two errors for any of your IPs over the last two weeks, both of which are some bug in Sendy (see below, heavily redacted for security).

error.log-20170420.gz:2017/04/19 15:07:21 [error] 24952#0: *59443517 FastCGI sent in stderr: "PHP message: PHP Warning:  Cannot modify header information - headers already sent by (output started at redacted) in redacted on line redacted" while reading upstream, client: redacted, server: redacted, request: "GET redacted HTTP/1.1", upstream: "fastcgi://unix:redacted", host: "redacted", referrer: "redacted"
error.log-20170421.gz:2017/04/20 19:32:25 [error] 24953#0: *62660078 FastCGI sent in stderr: "PHP message: PHP Warning:  Cannot modify header information - headers already sent by (output started at redacted) in redacted: eval()'d code on line redacted" while reading upstream, client: redacted, server: redacted, request: "GET redacted HTTP/1.1", upstream: "fastcgi://unix:redacted", host: "redacted", referrer: "redacted"

Both of which are just header warnings, neither of which would have thrown a 502 error.
« Last Edit: April 29, 2017, 11:51:55 am by gnif »
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Online EEVblog

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Re: FORUM DISRUPTION: Server Upgrade
« Reply #76 on: April 29, 2017, 04:52:45 pm »
Glitch in the matrix
 

Offline PA0PBZ

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Re: FORUM DISRUPTION: Server Upgrade
« Reply #77 on: April 29, 2017, 06:12:00 pm »
Yes it is working fine now, no more endless waiting for page loads and no more load errors.
I noticed something weird though, probably a forum software glitch? It's the "Local time" in the profiles.
For instance at the moment Gnif's profile says "Local Time:30 April 2017, 05:08:36" and for Dave it says "Local Time:29 April 2017, 18:10:23"
I'm sure you guys are not that far apart  :)
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Offline RGB255_0_0

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Your toaster just set fire to an African child over TCP.
 

Offline PA0PBZ

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Re: FORUM DISRUPTION: Server Upgrade
« Reply #79 on: April 29, 2017, 07:00:47 pm »
There is a profile setting in "look and layout" to set a time offset to correct the displayed time to your local time.

Yes I know, and I guessed almost everyone sets this to have the post times correct, but if I check the local time about 3/4 is incorrect. Maybe they just don't care?
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Offline gnif

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Re: FORUM DISRUPTION: Server Upgrade
« Reply #80 on: April 29, 2017, 10:51:32 pm »
Hah, I had not even noticed, I just corrected it! I set it to +11 out of habit without even thinking that the server's timezone is AEST already. Servers I manage generally run on UTC.
« Last Edit: April 29, 2017, 10:53:05 pm by gnif »
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Online Brumby

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Re: FORUM DISRUPTION: Server Upgrade
« Reply #81 on: April 29, 2017, 10:53:11 pm »
... and here was me thinking you were that far ahead of the game.
 

Offline Monkeh

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Re: FORUM DISRUPTION: Server Upgrade
« Reply #82 on: April 30, 2017, 12:49:25 pm »
Hah, I had not even noticed, I just corrected it! I set it to +11 out of habit without even thinking that the server's timezone is AEST already. Servers I manage generally run on UTC.

Perhaps this one should run on UTC too. Although that might make a mess of DB log/journaling timestamps during the changover. But one isolated server probably doesn't matter in the grand scheme of things.

Does that mean the time is changed for DST? Does the overlapping timestamps when going back an hour not create a problem?

Timestamps will all actually be stored in Unix time. Everything is actually in UTC (..close enough, anyway) - it just applies an offset for display.

It does cause everyone not in the same timezone to need to change their timezone four times a year on the forum, however, as SMF is, well, Simple.
« Last Edit: April 30, 2017, 12:51:08 pm by Monkeh »
 

Offline gnif

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Re: FORUM DISRUPTION: Server Upgrade
« Reply #83 on: April 30, 2017, 12:50:53 pm »
Hah, I had not even noticed, I just corrected it! I set it to +11 out of habit without even thinking that the server's timezone is AEST already. Servers I manage generally run on UTC.

Perhaps this one should run on UTC too. Although that might make a mess of DB log/journaling timestamps during the changover. But one isolated server probably doesn't matter in the grand scheme of things.

Does that mean the time is changed for DST? Does the overlapping timestamps when going back an hour not create a problem?

Timestamps will all actually be stored in Unix time. Everything is actually in UTC (..close enough, anyway) - it just applies an offset.

It does cause everyone not in the same timezone to need to change their timezone four times a year on the forum, however..

I wonder how hard it will be to patch SMF to just do it properly... when I get a little time I will investigate.
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Offline Monkeh

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Re: FORUM DISRUPTION: Server Upgrade
« Reply #84 on: April 30, 2017, 12:56:37 pm »
I wonder how hard it will be to patch SMF to just do it properly... when I get a little time I will investigate.

That'd be nice.

A little brief searching suggests they've never implemented it because they don't like 'too many options' (okay, there are a lot of timezones, but SMF is presently as dumb as my microwave..).
 

Offline gnif

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Re: FORUM DISRUPTION: Server Upgrade
« Reply #85 on: April 30, 2017, 12:57:33 pm »
I wonder how hard it will be to patch SMF to just do it properly... when I get a little time I will investigate.

That'd be nice.

A little brief searching suggests they've never implemented it because they don't like 'too many options' (okay, there are a lot of timezones, but SMF is presently as dumb as my microwave..).

It should be simple, they have already implemented the time offset stuff, clearly they are using the 'date' function everywhere instead of the 'gmdate' function.
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Offline tautech

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Re: FORUM DISRUPTION: Server Upgrade
« Reply #86 on: April 30, 2017, 01:02:41 pm »
Running Win 7 and time linked to some online clock gives zero problems for NZ daylight saving times.
Once you've got your offset from the forum default sorted and set, it works without issue.... does here anyway.
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Offline Monkeh

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Re: FORUM DISRUPTION: Server Upgrade
« Reply #87 on: April 30, 2017, 01:05:33 pm »
I wonder how hard it will be to patch SMF to just do it properly... when I get a little time I will investigate.

That'd be nice.

A little brief searching suggests they've never implemented it because they don't like 'too many options' (okay, there are a lot of timezones, but SMF is presently as dumb as my microwave..).

It should be simple, they have already implemented the time offset stuff, clearly they are using the 'date' function everywhere instead of the 'gmdate' function.

The issue appears to be with presenting the full range of options - if you just do a drop-down menu there are 561 options (and 385 unique zones, lots of links) in the tz database. Even cut down it's a long list. Some sort of graphical picker helps there, but requires more work to implement.

Personally I'd be happy with a box and instructions to locate the correct zone.

Running Win 7 and time linked to some online clock gives zero problems for NZ daylight saving times.
Once you've got your offset from the forum default sorted and set, it works without issue.... does here anyway.

DST start/end dates around the world do not align. I get to change it four times a year. This is boring.
 

Offline tautech

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Re: FORUM DISRUPTION: Server Upgrade
« Reply #88 on: April 30, 2017, 01:12:01 pm »
Running Win 7 and time linked to some online clock gives zero problems for NZ daylight saving times.
Once you've got your offset from the forum default sorted and set, it works without issue.... does here anyway.

DST start/end dates around the world do not align. I get to change it four times a year. This is boring.
Yeah I get that and used to get the same, that's why I mentioned linking of your PC clock to an online source AND having the correct timezone and country set on your PC too. (didn't mention that before.)

Never need to adjust mine for the forums I frequent, the PC just sorts it for me.
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Offline Monkeh

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Re: FORUM DISRUPTION: Server Upgrade
« Reply #89 on: April 30, 2017, 01:19:05 pm »
Running Win 7 and time linked to some online clock gives zero problems for NZ daylight saving times.
Once you've got your offset from the forum default sorted and set, it works without issue.... does here anyway.

DST start/end dates around the world do not align. I get to change it four times a year. This is boring.
Yeah I get that and used to get the same, that's why I mentioned linking of your PC clock to an online source AND having the correct timezone and country set on your PC too. (didn't mention that before.)

My clocks are accurate. That does not stop the apparent server time changing.
 

Offline tautech

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Re: FORUM DISRUPTION: Server Upgrade
« Reply #90 on: April 30, 2017, 02:49:56 pm »
Running Win 7 and time linked to some online clock gives zero problems for NZ daylight saving times.
Once you've got your offset from the forum default sorted and set, it works without issue.... does here anyway.

DST start/end dates around the world do not align. I get to change it four times a year. This is boring.
Yeah I get that and used to get the same, that's why I mentioned linking of your PC clock to an online source AND having the correct timezone and country set on your PC too. (didn't mention that before.)

My clocks are accurate. That does not stop the apparent server time changing.
:o
Gotcha now.
Not seen that, it would piss me off too.
Is it really a SMF issue ? Or something else ?  :-//
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Offline gnif

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Re: FORUM DISRUPTION: Server Upgrade
« Reply #91 on: April 30, 2017, 03:39:31 pm »
:o
Gotcha now.
Not seen that, it would piss me off too.
Is it really a SMF issue ? Or something else ?  :-//

Yeah, SMF is reporting the time in the server's timezone, it wouldn't be an issue if the client base was primarily in one area, as most forum user bases are. PHP provides two methods of dealing with the time, 'date' and 'gmdate', where date applies the server's timezone to the date, and gmdate is GMT. This is very common with open source projects like SMF, most programmers hate dealing with timezones due to how crappy they are, things like DST make it an absolute PITA to get it right.

Until you actually start to code time stuff, you don't (well at least I didn't) realize how involved it is, especially when you start to have to handle leap seconds, thankfully the kernel/os/PHP hides most of this from the dev, but it's can still be confusing. I find it is best to store times as UTC timestamps, then apply any offsets required when presenting the information, that way it never matters what the server or application's timezone is configured for.
« Last Edit: April 30, 2017, 03:45:27 pm by gnif »
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Offline Monkeh

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Re: FORUM DISRUPTION: Server Upgrade
« Reply #92 on: April 30, 2017, 07:49:25 pm »
Time quickly gets very complex.

If they're indeed simply using the 'wrong' function to print the time, at least switching to gmdate would restore DST changes to the usual twice a year. Still like to see timezone selection, though.

E: Seems to me the quickest solution is just to go into the admin panel and set the timezone to UTC where it belongs. Pretty sure that was shot down by Dave last time I raised it as he doesn't want to have to set his offset for DST..
« Last Edit: April 30, 2017, 08:10:47 pm by Monkeh »
 

Offline gnif

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Re: FORUM DISRUPTION: Server Upgrade
« Reply #93 on: April 30, 2017, 10:03:24 pm »
E: Seems to me the quickest solution is just to go into the admin panel and set the timezone to UTC where it belongs. Pretty sure that was shot down by Dave last time I raised it as he doesn't want to have to set his offset for DST..

The server's logging, monitoring and other services are all relying on dates that are stored in the local timezone, while it is a quick setting to change, it will affect much more across the server and is too late to change it. If it is done the server's time to a ton of things, including the stats and backup systems will appear to jump back in time 10 hours, which will mess things up in a large way.
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Offline Monkeh

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Re: FORUM DISRUPTION: Server Upgrade
« Reply #94 on: April 30, 2017, 10:27:28 pm »
E: Seems to me the quickest solution is just to go into the admin panel and set the timezone to UTC where it belongs. Pretty sure that was shot down by Dave last time I raised it as he doesn't want to have to set his offset for DST..

The server's logging, monitoring and other services are all relying on dates that are stored in the local timezone, while it is a quick setting to change, it will affect much more across the server and is too late to change it. If it is done the server's time to a ton of things, including the stats and backup systems will appear to jump back in time 10 hours, which will mess things up in a large way.

Not on the server - on the forum. There is, according to the source at least (it's been a while since I ran SMF), a timezone setting on the forum. This may be something you can adjust without affecting much.
« Last Edit: April 30, 2017, 10:33:52 pm by Monkeh »
 

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Re: FORUM DISRUPTION: Server Upgrade
« Reply #95 on: May 01, 2017, 12:45:29 am »
The SMF timezone is set to Sydney, always has been.
Any changes to any of this I'll leave up to gnif.
 
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