Why is KiCAD under Linux such a heap of crap?

[jaxbird]

Why is that?

Because it is the standard response from open-source programmers when they want to tell you to shut up and fuck off. First they make it incredibly hard to contribute (e.g. because the software is hard to build, convoluted and undocumented, they have hundreds of obscure rules how to submit and then ignore or reject 99% of all submissions), then they tell you to fuck off when you tell them they have a problem but don't rub their back exactly the way they want.

Ok, fair enough, I guess with open source projects it can be difficult to contribute directly. That also somewhat ruins the whole concept because of the overhead involved in managing a largeish project and the basis for deciding which pieces makes it into the main branch.

But still, complaining about a free piece of software seems very counter productive.

[johansen]

I was using Kicad up until the point they broke their library.

I can't even open old projects because some of the same components have been changed, when this should never have happened.
I don't have enough invested to even care however.
Internet based library is just asking for trouble, this is completely rediculous, i'm not even going to bother trying to make that work
In my opinion, the library should be redesigned to be similar to how multisim handles it. with each part being both a schematic symbol, a specification, part number, link to pdf datasheet (this is great, kicad has this, but most of them are broken)

anyway, the actual design flow of kicad does make sense to me and i can use it, but they broke it repeatedly.
furthermore, the library and part editors never had a few key features, such as moving parts around from one library to another, or revision tracking.

[homebrew]

But still, complaining about a free piece of software seems very counter productive.

Yes, complaining is never productive, as the problem does not go away ...
But then what would be a productive action in that case?

[marshallh]

Quality

[firewalker]

KiCAD is a really good free alternative. Maybe the only one that could be used by an average user.

The biggest problem is the code documentation. Also, the majority of the devs doesn't even bother to change the status of the bug they fix. Or they will commit a bug report fix without even saying what issues is addressees in the description of the commit.

Personally I like KiCAD under GNU/Linux. I build it almost daily (really simple processes) and track down bugs.

Alexander.

[ConnorGames]

Another happy kicad user on linux. The only unsolved bugs I have noticed are the occasional drawing issue, which can be fixed in about 1/10th of a second by moving the mouse wheel down and then up again, and the fact that printing schematics doesn't work well. The former issue seems to be getting less common with time.
To work around the printing issue, the only fix I have found is plot to pdf. This IS an annoying bug, and heeds to be fixed!

[homebrew]

As some of you have suggested, Debian might be the best matching platform to run KiCAD under linux.
Therefor I prepared a tiny howto for setting up a complete Debian/KiCAD environment inside virtual box.

1) Create a VM (8-XXGB depending on your needs)
2) Install debian normally (netinstall-image, deselect all extra package groups)
3) Add sudo rights to your user:

$ su -
# apt-get install sudo
# usermod -a -G sudo YOURUSERNAME

log out and back in! Now you should have sudo rights ...

3) Install X-Windows, xfce4 (or whatever you prefer) and some tools:
$ sudo apt-get install x-window-system xfce4 evince gv xterm iceweasel cups

3) Install the guest-additions to get better performance and resolution etc, etc...

$ sudo apt-get install build-essential module-assistant
$ sudo m-a prepare

Insert virtual media by clicking "Devices -> Insert Guest Additions CD image”

$ mount /media/cdrom
$ sudo sh VBoxLinuxAdditions.run

4) Start your X-Server
$ startx

You should by now have a fully working XFCE with dynamic window resizing etc etc.

5) install KiCad

Download kicad-install.sh from the kicad homepage
Open a terminal
$ cd
$ cd Downloads
$ chmod u+x kicad-install.sh
$ ./kicad-install.sh --install-or-update

Lean back for the next 1-2 hours ...

6) Install the kicad-repo-tools from the forum to workaround the stupid online footprint repository:

Download kicad-repo-tools.zip from https://www.eevblog.com/forum/open-source-kicad-geda/kicad-new-footprint-libraries-(-pretty)-packet/msg384444/#msg384444

$ unzip kicad-repo-tools.zip
$ sudo mkdir /usr/local/share/kicad/github-repo
$ sudo python clone-kicad-repo.py

I had to tun the script several times as github seemed to be unreliable at the time, giving me random connection errors …

As we ran the python script as root, we have to manually copy the fl-lib-table into our homedir

$ cd
$ cp /usr/local/share/kicad/template/fp-lib-table.for-pretty fp-lib-table

7) Set the KISYSMOD environment variable to point to the correct repository:
echo "export KISYSMOD=/usr/local/share/kicad/github-repo" >> .bashrc

Close the terminal and open a new one.

Finally start kicad
$ kicad &

That should be all …

Printing still does not work directly in eeschema (in pcbnew it however does ...), however the following workaround actually produces reasonable PDFs: Instead of using the Print command from the menu just use the Plot command and select PDF as output type. Credits to: https://bugs.launchpad.net/kicad/+bug/1051109

Happy engineering!

[Bassman59]

Think about Atmegas in DIP or QFP packages for example with their different pinouts that you have to have in mind when doing your schematics. Thus in KiCAD you have to create two identical schematic symbols for the same component depending on its package variants. Flawed ...

This is very good practice. Two similar devices in different packages are different components with have different part numbers, and the fact that they're electrically similar is irrelevant - especially once you've designed one of them into a schematic and given the BoM to a customer.

Is it really a big deal to have both variants in a library? Really?

Every professional organization I've worked for or with has separate library parts for things which come in more than one package.  As in: we usually use this dual op-amp in SOIC-8, and we need the smaller MSOP version, so you absolutely need two entries in symbol library (or integrated library if you're an Altium user). This is especially true if your symbols include some sort of company part number field which is used by the downstream BOM tools.

Oh, and Kicad's CvPCB program -- fucking stupid. Sure, let's put a dozen transistor symbols on a schematic, and then have some intermediate tool map those symbols to one of the myriad possible footprints (excuse me, modules) one might need, and then not fuck it up. There are Kicad users who actually defend this lossage. (At least one can include a footprint identifier in the symbol which is stored in the symbol library, so you don't actually have to use CvPCB.)

[Bassman59]

An I have not talked about using it under OSX. I gave that idea up very fast!

For what it's worth, the most recent BZR versions build and run well on OS X 10.9.4. They actually have a developer now who doesn't hate the platform.

[Bassman59]

I was using Kicad up until the point they broke their library.

For what it's worth: most users maintain their own libraries and simply do not depend on libraries provided by the tools. This isn't even limited to Kicad; at the day job we use Altium and we have a company-standard (vetted, with company part numbers in the symbols, etc) library everyone uses. That Altium has all of these vaults and what-not is not relevant. (Our PCB guy does go to the vaults to see if Altium has provided a component already; if so, it's copied out of that library, vetted, and sometimes the symbol is changed to something that doesn't suck.)

Oh, and so the Kicad developers have created this git-based system to pull library parts from ... somewhere. Oh, great. That goes against the whole idea of a user's standard vetted library, but I guess enough users think that sort of thing is OK.

[johansen]

I was using Kicad up until the point they broke their library.

For what it's worth: most users maintain their own libraries and simply do not depend on libraries provided by the tools. [...]
Oh, and so the Kicad developers have created this git-based system to pull library parts from ... somewhere. Oh, great. That goes against the whole idea of a user's standard vetted library, but I guess enough users think that sort of thing is OK.

this is what i'm talking about:
the topology of how their schematic symbol, linked to a part file, linked to a footprint, i can understand, and work with it, and its annoying.
the filters never worked properly, filter by pin number doesn't even work reliably, etc.

and then they went and changed a bunch of things and we ended up with the root installation installing non modifiable library files in a root system directory.
and the library table editor doesn't make any logical sense.
you can't move parts from one library into another without an external library editor (one of which was written by someone on this forum)
" set the KISYSMOD environment variable to point to the correct repository:"
yeah, i'll get write on that..

even if i had to go and individually vet every single iota in the library, i can understand that, and put up with it, but the entire topology is just too "french" might be a good word

[ve7xen]

Oh, and so the Kicad developers have created this git-based system to pull library parts from ... somewhere. Oh, great. That goes against the whole idea of a user's standard vetted library, but I guess enough users think that sort of thing is OK.

They came so close to getting this right it's really disappointing. If they had just put the entire library in a single git repository, this would've been almost ideal. You can clone the upstream libraries, make your local adjustments in your own github (or local git) and then easily pull improvements from upstream without breaking your changes. The UI is obviously not there yet, but will come I think. The big problem is that every category is a separate git repo, so you can't easily clone it wholesale.

Oh, and Kicad's CvPCB program -- fucking stupid. Sure, let's put a dozen transistor symbols on a schematic, and then have some intermediate tool map those symbols to one of the myriad possible footprints (excuse me, modules) one might need, and then not fuck it up. There are Kicad users who actually defend this lossage. (At least one can include a footprint identifier in the symbol which is stored in the symbol library, so you don't actually have to use CvPCB.)

I don't necessarily like this, but I don't consider it a big deal either. When you select a designator in CvPCB, it is highlighted in the schematic editor, and if package selection is critical you would have put it into the properties while capturing the schematic. I would really like to see it work more like Altium, however, where each symbol can be associated with multiple footprints and have different pinouts depending on the package. Then you will know the symbol and footprint match.

[Bassman59]

Oh, and Kicad's CvPCB program -- fucking stupid. Sure, let's put a dozen transistor symbols on a schematic, and then have some intermediate tool map those symbols to one of the myriad possible footprints (excuse me, modules) one might need, and then not fuck it up. There are Kicad users who actually defend this lossage. (At least one can include a footprint identifier in the symbol which is stored in the symbol library, so you don't actually have to use CvPCB.)

I don't necessarily like this, but I don't consider it a big deal either. When you select a designator in CvPCB, it is highlighted in the schematic editor, and if package selection is critical you would have put it into the properties while capturing the schematic. I would really like to see it work more like Altium, however, where each symbol can be associated with multiple footprints and have different pinouts depending on the package. Then you will know the symbol and footprint match.

We use Altium at the day job, and we don't do the mutliple-footprints-per-symbol thing. That's because our system has a part number embedded in the symbol, and that part number is used by a downstream database to generate BOMs against which we order parts. It's not like we have a thousand parts in the library so it becomes unwieldy. So it's easy enough to have RES0805 and RES0603 as separate symbols, or perhaps LM317EMP and LM317T. The designer chooses the desired part at entry time. That's because package selection IS critical. You have to know what you're putting on the board and you have to know what you're ordering.

[ve7xen]

We use Altium at the day job, and we don't do the mutliple-footprints-per-symbol thing. That's because our system has a part number embedded in the symbol, and that part number is used by a downstream database to generate BOMs against which we order parts. It's not like we have a thousand parts in the library so it becomes unwieldy. So it's easy enough to have RES0805 and RES0603 as separate symbols, or perhaps LM317EMP and LM317T. The designer chooses the desired part at entry time. That's because package selection IS critical. You have to know what you're putting on the board and you have to know what you're ordering.

That's perfectly reasonable, but as a hobbyist it serves me no purpose and just generates extra effort creating/editing symbols. Filling out the pin map takes seconds, while editing each individual pin is kind of a pain in the ass, especially for a part with many pins. I can't think of any sane way of implementing the multi-package support which would prevent you from doing it your way, yours is just a special case with each symbol having one footprint. For example there's nothing stopping you from doing something similar to what you do at work in KiCad; each symbol has a list of packages and CvPCB's auto package assignment will use it, so if you go to the effort to set up your custom symbols library it's an extra click or two but achieves the same basic workflow.

When I used to use (pirated) Altium, I did find it nice to be able to e.g. select a TQFP instead of TSSOP footprint in the schematic editor and have the nets and PCB all updated relatively seamlessly. As someone with a comp sci background, it also seems like rather a good abstraction to handle it that way, since the logical idea of the part on the schematic has nothing to do with its physical expression, and the two are linked by a pin map. For me, it made it easy enough to just enter all the pin mappings for every package when I created the symbol, then during layout time if I decided I needed a smaller one or whatever, it was just a matter of changing it instead of going back to the datasheet, creating a new symbol, editing every single pin on it etc.

[Bloch]

That about then exchange project with others. Do Kicad work like Protel(Altium).


It is enough to exchange SCH, PCB and (not necessary > projekt file)


Will all the symbols be usable and easy to save in you own library. Or is it important that all libraries and maybe other files also must bee include then exchange with others ?

[Thor-Arne]

KiCad stores the used symbols in a cache file in the same folder as the project file, this file is searched for the symbols before the default libraries. This ensures that the symbols in the schematic is the same as when it was created.

To use this you need to share the project file as this file determines the name of the cache file, preferably the whole project folder (without the backup files) should be shared in a archived format. This archive will be small enough for emailing and so on...

To use a "shared" symbol you just open that symbol in the library editor and sets the default library then save it.

[Bloch]

Thanks Thor-Arne

If every user know that info then it is not a problem.

So nice to know.

[ve7xen]

KiCad's project manager has a File->Archive menu option just for this, which pulls all the necessary files and symbols into one .zip file for distribution.

[Thor-Arne]

Lol, I forgot that since I generally uses winrar to archive revisions of my project. 

[John Wilson]

That it is! 

I just finished drawing several schematics with it and when I went to create the first PCB I started getting the constant errors stating that footprints can't be found, libaries can't be found, etc., etc., etc.

Today I've officially given up on Kicad. It's just too broken.

What easy software is there to draw a schematic then make a PCB. And I'm not looking for something that will necessarily import everything from schematic. I don't mind doing everything manually on the PCB design and just looking at the schematic for reference. I just want something that I can design in without spending an entire DAY trying to get it working.

[Bassman59]

That it is! 

I just finished drawing several schematics with it and when I went to create the first PCB I started getting the constant errors stating that footprints can't be found, libaries can't be found, etc., etc., etc.

Today I've officially given up on Kicad. It's just too broken.

What platform? What BZR version? Help us help you.

[PedroDaGr8]

That it is! 

I just finished drawing several schematics with it and when I went to create the first PCB I started getting the constant errors stating that footprints can't be found, libaries can't be found, etc., etc., etc.

Today I've officially given up on Kicad. It's just too broken.

What easy software is there to draw a schematic then make a PCB. And I'm not looking for something that will necessarily import everything from schematic. I don't mind doing everything manually on the PCB design and just looking at the schematic for reference. I just want something that I can design in without spending an entire DAY trying to get it working.

If you decide to give KiCad one more chance and let the guys on here help you then go for it.

Otherwise, DipTrace and Eagle are the next logical programs. I like DipTrace and feel it is more intuitive. Others love Eagle just as much. Both have free versions with their own restrictions (Eagle: 100x80mm board, unlimited pins, 2 layers ; DipTrace: 500 pins, unlimited size board, 2 layers).

[Dago]

That it is! 

I just finished drawing several schematics with it and when I went to create the first PCB I started getting the constant errors stating that footprints can't be found, libaries can't be found, etc., etc., etc.

Today I've officially given up on Kicad. It's just too broken.

You just need to add the libraries to the PCB side of the software as well. Nothing is broken in that sense. Slightly cumbersome yes.

[nickoe]

That it is! 

I just finished drawing several schematics with it and when I went to create the first PCB I started getting the constant errors stating that footprints can't be found, libaries can't be found, etc., etc., etc.

Today I've officially given up on Kicad. It's just too broken.

You just need to add the libraries to the PCB side of the software as well. Nothing is broken in that sense. Slightly cumbersome yes.

Agreed, he should really just read the doc.

http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~kicad-developers/kicad/doc/view/head:/doc/help/en/cvpcb.pdf

[nickoe]

Oh, and so the Kicad developers have created this git-based system to pull library parts from ... somewhere. Oh, great. That goes against the whole idea of a user's standard vetted library, but I guess enough users think that sort of thing is OK.

They came so close to getting this right it's really disappointing. If they had just put the entire library in a single git repository, this would've been almost ideal. You can clone the upstream libraries, make your local adjustments in your own github (or local git) and then easily pull improvements from upstream without breaking your changes. The UI is obviously not there yet, but will come I think. The big problem is that every category is a separate git repo, so you can't easily clone it wholesale.

Well, the idea is that you might only need a couple of the .pretty libs. Aslo you can use the scripts to download the library, e.g.  scripts/library-repos-install.sh for linux and osx. The  scripts/library-repos-install.bat is very dumb and hardcoded, that might only work partially.