Is there an OSHW platform like the OrangePi which uses a different ARM?

[XFDDesign]

I'm liking the OrangePi as an upgrade from the RPi for my signal processing 'host pc' on a project I'm working on. However, what would be nice is to transfer the design and incorporate it onto my PCB itself - even if the cost is (obviously) going to be higher. The only thing that is keeping me from doing so, is the fact that the AllWinner H3s don't seem to be something that is 'normally obtainable.'

I'm wondering: does anyone makes a similar kind of OSHW platform that is ARM based (1GHz+) with a processor that can be purchased from Mouser/Digikey?

(Forum search didn't come up with any good results)

[BMK]

Did you look at Olimex Allwinner A20. They have full boards and SOMs. I have dozens of them installed in industrial applications. Cannot recommend highly enough. I'm doing signal analysis with SciPy / numPy and I'm mis-using the on board audio codec as an ADC.

[XFDDesign]

Can I buy the Allwinner A20 from Digikey/mouser/farnell or the like?

[helius]

The AM3358 on the Beaglebone Black is available in any quantity you like from Digikey/Mouser/Farnell.

[edavid]

Nextthing is working on an interesting SOM, but it's not quite available:  https://nextthing.co/pages/chippro

[dansku]

What abuot the REX board?

http://www.imx6rex.com/

[XFDDesign]

Spendy little bastards at $50+/pop but at least they can be obtained. The TI parts look to be the best contender as they're $22/ea

[krho]

I.MX6UL, it's not OSHW, but chips can be obtained freely. If you don't trust the vendor.
The cheapest I could found In EU. Although the shipping into some of the EU countries is utterly expensive.
http://www.opossom.com/english/products-processor_boards-opos6ul.html

Then there is this one
http://www.openembed.com/index.php/goods/11/detail.html approximately 30$

[timb]

If you want to buy AllWinner chips, why not just ask the IC manufacturer to sell you some?
Since they do open source their Linux BSP, and promote the use of their chips in OSHW, then they should be interested in small maker market, so why not just ask them to sell you some?

Also, if you are being lazy, check out OSD3358, a BGA packaged AM3358 SoM, ready for use with down to 2 layer board, though 4+ layer is preferred.
http://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/octavo-systems-llc/OSD3358-512M-BAS/1676-1000-ND/6012564

After clicking the link and seeing that it was a 400 ball BGA package, I was like, "Holy shit, blueskull is either the best PCB designer in the world for getting that on a 2 layer board, or he's been smoking some *really* good crack!"

Then I realized most of the balls must be NC, so it should be doable.

[XFDDesign]

If you want to buy AllWinner chips, why not just ask the IC manufacturer to sell you some?
Since they do open source their Linux BSP, and promote the use of their chips in OSHW, then they should be interested in small maker market, so why not just ask them to sell you some?

Also, if you are being lazy, check out OSD3358, a BGA packaged AM3358 SoM, ready for use with down to 2 layer board, though 4+ layer is preferred.
http://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/octavo-systems-llc/OSD3358-512M-BAS/1676-1000-ND/6012564

To a degree, the project I'm working on will have its design documents be released to the public. I've actually thought about trying to be a US side supplier of OrangePis just for convenience, but if I migrate the SoC to be on my board directly, its important for the would-be maker to be able to source parts. 

[krho]

The i.MX6UL Parts  e.g MCIMX6G2, are all around 6€ in 100pc qty.
MCIMX6G0 is cheaper, but it doesn't have the LCD interface.
MCIMX6G1 has the same price as MCIMX6G2, but also doesn't have LCD interface

[XFDDesign]

The i.MX6UL Parts  e.g MCIMX6G2, are all around 6€ in 100pc qty.
MCIMX6G0 is cheaper, but it doesn't have the LCD interface.
MCIMX6G1 has the same price as MCIMX6G2, but also doesn't have LCD interface

I don't actually care about an LCD interface as the thing will run headless. What I am in need of is as much computational power as possible, which has me looking at the 1GHz+ space. This is why the TI offering looks to be the optimum outcome. $22/ea in 1pc and clocks at 1GHz.

[krho]

i.MX6S 1GHz A9 17,6$ @ mouser at 1pcs
i.MX6DL 2x800MHz A9 29,6$  @ mouser at 1pcs

I've picked one processor from the list. Take look at the whole range, The i.MX6S goes up to 1.2GHz and i.MX6DL goes up to 1GHz

Also there should be OSHW boards available with those parts. IMO wandboard is one of them.

[rob77]

i.MX6S has 624 balls and it's available only in that package, unless you need exactly that processor or need all it's features then go for something in a smaller package.
i would suggest to go for the Sitara cpus from TI as others suggested above. If you don't need the industrial stuff like profinet,EtherCAT, EtherNet/IP (it has nothing to do with the regular 10/100/1000 ethernet which is present in all siatara 335x chips) then you can go for the lower ones - eg. you can have an  AM3352 without 3D accelerator (ideal for headless systems) and without industrial interfaces under 15Eur (14.50eur in single piece @farnell) AM3354 with 3D and without industrial ifaces is approx 19Eur. and those Sitaras are coming in a friendly 324ball 0.8mm pitch backage.

btw.. i'm on a similar boat . need a small , relatively cheap and readily available linux system, raspberry Pi zero is unobtanium in quantities bigger than one single piece. and all other single board machines are either too big or too expensive and all of them have too much HW i don't need. so currently i'm working on a design using the AM3352.

[aylons]

I'm wondering: does anyone makes a similar kind of OSHW platform that is ARM based (1GHz+) with a processor that can be purchased from Mouser/Digikey?

BeagleBone (any official variant) is the thing you are looking for: the sources for the boards are available online [1] with a Free License, the IC is completely documented by the manufacturer, there is plenty of open source software in their repository [1] and the chip is buyable at Digikey in the quantity of 1!

If you want to reuse their design in your own project, this is the way to go.

https://github.com/beagleboard/

[timb]

I'm wondering: does anyone makes a similar kind of OSHW platform that is ARM based (1GHz+) with a processor that can be purchased from Mouser/Digikey?

BeagleBone (any official variant) is the thing you are looking for: the sources for the boards are available online [1] with a Free License, the IC is completely documented by the manufacturer, there is plenty of open source software in their repository [1] and the chip is buyable at Digikey in the quantity of 1!

If you want to reuse their design in your own project, this is the way to go.

https://github.com/beagleboard/

$/GFLOPS for both GPU and CPU are horrible for BB CPU. AllWinner makes much cheaper chips with much higher raw speed.

Yes, but with the BBB: You can buy them from Digi-Key, there's a reference design freely available *and* you can buy the SoC as a module in case you need to route it on a 2 or 4 layer board.

[Spikee]

I have designed an allwinner board and I can share some details:

-Chips can only be obtained via allwinner approved design houses; You can design your own boards but the design house has to be involved in the manufacturing or else they are not allowed to provide chips
-Documentation is all in Chinese
-They do some really funky things in their (application) designs
-(simple) android adjustments are super expensive
-You can't imagine how difficult it is to get rooted android from them
-AWT provides the design houses a example schematic; like >90% of all available allwinner tablets / boards are this schematic with almost no change to it
-AWT provides (orcad) sch and pcb files for DDR3 routing ; their length matching is out of spec according to their own DDR3 guideline document
-For each AWT chip there is a specific design guide (all the design / datasheet files for the A64 core you can just find on google; normal path is NDA and payment)

[batteksystem]

I have designed an allwinner board and I can share some details:

-Chips can only be obtained via allwinner approved design houses; You can design your own boards but the design house has to be involved in the manufacturing or else they are not allowed to provide chips
-Documentation is all in Chinese
-They do some really funky things in their (application) designs
-(simple) android adjustments are super expensive
-You can't imagine how difficult it is to get rooted android from them
-AWT provides the design houses a example schematic; like >90% of all available allwinner tablets / boards are this schematic with almost no change to it
-AWT provides (orcad) sch and pcb files for DDR3 routing ; their length matching is out of spec according to their own DDR3 guideline document
-For each AWT chip there is a specific design guide (all the design / datasheet files for the A64 core you can just find on google; normal path is NDA and payment)

Poor version and documentation control. Very common for asia companies.

[fanOfeeDIY]

Yes, the project of the DragonBoard410C and Hikey were meant to be
a similar kind of OSHW platform that is ARM based (1GHz+) with a processor that can be purchased from Mouser/Digikey.

These are the links.

Top page of DragonBoard410C.
http://www.96boards.org/documentation/ConsumerEdition/DragonBoard-410c/README.md/
Schematic and hardware documentations.
http://www.96boards.org/documentation/ConsumerEdition/DragonBoard-410c/HardwareDocs/README.md/
Downloading BSP.
http://www.96boards.org/documentation/ConsumerEdition/DragonBoard-410c/Downloads/README.md/
About the news of buying the SoC.
http://www.cnx-software.com/2016/09/29/qualcomm-is-finally-open-for-business-with-snapdragon-410e-and-600e-processors-for-embedded-iot-applications/

The HiKey has almost identical information.
http://www.96boards.org/documentation/ConsumerEdition/HiKey/README.md/
Schematic and hardware documentations.
http://www.96boards.org/documentation/ConsumerEdition/HiKey/HardwareDocs/README.md/
Downloading BSP.
http://www.96boards.org/documentation/ConsumerEdition/HiKey/Downloads/README.md/
However I have not heard that independents could buy the chip right now.

This is the page of the specification of the project.
http://www.96boards.org/ce-specification

[edavid]

I know I mentioned it already, but Nextthing GR8/CHIP Pro is intended to solve the AllWinner NDA and availability problems.  Dev kits are supposed to ship this month, and they have been good at meeting schedules so far.

https://nextthing.co/pages/chippro

It looks good to me, but maybe the posters who have already tangled with AWT can give their impressions.

[XFDDesign]

I think there might have been a slight derailment. There is no interest in the _modules_ or SBCs themselves. It's just the reference design I'm after, that uses an off-the-shelf ARM that I can get, which I am after. The idea is to transfer the schematics of the relevant parts to my radio design, and skip the unneeded business of dealing with a module. I would be running ARMBian, so the Android stuff is a nonissue for me.

Cheers!

[fanOfeeDIY]

I think there might have been a slight derailment. There is no interest in the _modules_ or SBCs themselves. It's just the reference design I'm after, that uses an off-the-shelf ARM that I can get, which I am after. The idea is to transfer the schematics of the relevant parts to my radio design, and skip the unneeded business of dealing with a module. I would be running ARMBian, so the Android stuff is a nonissue for me.

Cheers!

They have Debian which is the base of ARMBian.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[Spikee]

IMX / TI stuff is probably the way to go.
You can get allwinner chips off taoboa but all low quantity ofcourse.
If you partner with a design house you can get as many as you want (they earn their money by selling the chip to you).

[fanOfeeDIY]

TI is also good at this.

BeagleBone series boards.
http://beagleboard.org/boards

Schematics and hardware documentations.
http://beagleboard.org/hardware/design
https://github.com/beagleboard/BeagleBone-Black
https://github.com/beagleboard/beagleboard-x15

Downloading and installing BSPs.
https://beagleboard.org/latest-images
https://beagleboard.org/getting-started#update

I see the chips are sold.
http://www.mouser.com/Texas-Instruments/Microprocessors-MPU/AM5728-Series/_/N-1z0zls6Za86qzZ1yo1auu

The BeagleBone top page.
https://beagleboard.org/

[aylons]

$/GFLOPS for both GPU and CPU are horrible for BB CPU. AllWinner makes much cheaper chips with much higher raw speed.

Well, this is only fair if you are only interested in raw computing power. In a case like this, you most probably don't need (or want to) design a new board from the chip itself.

On the other hand, the BB chip has some very nice features for embedded developments: both in hardware (such as the PRU and ADCs), and in documentation and support. And it is a very capable CPU, able to even implement SDR with GnuRadio (I did this myself). Most applications do not require much computing power beyond what the BB offers.

[aylons]

$/GFLOPS for both GPU and CPU are horrible for BB CPU. AllWinner makes much cheaper chips with much higher raw speed.

Well, this is only fair if you are only interested in raw computing power. In a case like this, you most probably don't need (or want to) design a new board from the chip itself.

On the other hand, the BB chip has some very nice features for embedded developments: both in hardware (such as the PRU and ADCs), and in documentation and support. And it is a very capable CPU, able to even implement SDR with GnuRadio (I did this myself). Most applications do not require much computing power beyond what the BB offers.

If I wanted to do that and be extremely lazy, I would use new version of BB's BGA system on module (that encapsulates the AM chip, memory, USB and PMIC in a single module in BGA).
That allows me to get things done with only 4-layer PCB.

Sure! This actually shows how the market that TI wants to reach is different from the AllWinner's.

I know Octave systems is the one designing it, but surely they have plenty of support from TI, to get the bare chips and all.

[Harvs]

If I wanted to do that and be extremely lazy, I would use new version of BB's BGA system on module (that encapsulates the AM chip, memory, USB and PMIC in a single module in BGA).
That allows me to get things done with only 4-layer PCB.

I just wish they were priced better.  The OSD3358 alone is the same price as a complete BB Green, but you still need flash etc.  Seen an eMMC not in a fine pitch BGA lately? (Everything available I can find is 0.5mm pitch.)
The 100LBGA at 1mm pitch which is pretty easy...

All this could still be ok for small volume applications with reasonable margin, but that generally means some sort of industrial market at least in Oz... But then they're not available in industrial temp grade.

[robertferanec]

I am not sure what design software you use, but if Altium, have a look at OpenRex. You can download complete Altium files and adjust them to your needs.

It is open source even for commercial use + components are from Digikey: http://www.imx6rex.com/open-rex/

Hope this helps.

[mark03]

IMX / TI stuff is probably the way to go.

The frightening thing is that both TI and the-company-formerly-known-as-Freescale are getting out of the ARM applications-processor market.  TI is just leaving it (AFAIK no plans for ARMv8 chips), and Freescale is leaving by virtue of being bought out by NXP, then Qualcomm, which probably spells the death of future iMX development.  I hope I am wrong but it does appear that the remaining players will all have similar policies toward the "little guy"--no data without NDA, no parts in small quantities, etc.  Allwinner could start looking better in this scenario.  When no company will document and publish as we used to take for granted, the next best choice may be a company which is bad at keeping secrets.

[eugenenine]

I wonder what beage.org is going to do if they cant get any more parts.

[mark03]

Beagleboard just introduced the x15, actually I think it's impossible to buy one yet in the US.  There are also a gazillion cool projects for which the BeagleBone Black and similar boards are well suited, even if outdated in terms of the CPU.  Also, the PRU (Programmable Realtime Unit) on those processors is so insanely useful it's a real shame that TI is getting out of the biz.  But anyway, the Beagle_____ ecosystem won't be going away anytime soon.

[eugenenine]

I'm sure there will be plenty of stock for a while but if they can't find an new (open) replacement for the next version

[XFDDesign]

The frightening thing is that both TI and the-company-formerly-known-as-Freescale are getting out of the ARM applications-processor market.  TI is just leaving it (AFAIK no plans for ARMv8 chips), and Freescale is leaving by virtue of being bought out by NXP, then Qualcomm, which probably spells the death of future iMX development.  I hope I am wrong but it does appear that the remaining players will all have similar policies toward the "little guy"--no data without NDA, no parts in small quantities, etc.  Allwinner could start looking better in this scenario.  When no company will document and publish as we used to take for granted, the next best choice may be a company which is bad at keeping secrets.

This has, more or less, been the play for ARM in general. Until ARM-GCC was a thing, the whole family was priced out of the market for anyone smaller than 'large enterprise' in terms of compilers. Really, the whole sense of ARM comes off as "go away."

Can anyone provide more of a source on TI getting out of the ARM processors? Best I can find is an article from 4 years ago regarding their OMAP processors.

[mark03]

Can anyone provide more of a source on TI getting out of the ARM processors? Best I can find is an article from 4 years ago regarding their OMAP processors.

I don't have a reference, but AFAIK they haven't announced anything to follow the OMAP5xxx series, so it would seem to be a foregone conclusion by now.

[tszaboo]

Can anyone provide more of a source on TI getting out of the ARM processors? Best I can find is an article from 4 years ago regarding their OMAP processors.

I don't have a reference, but AFAIK they haven't announced anything to follow the OMAP5xxx series, so it would seem to be a foregone conclusion by now.

TI was stopping making OMAP for the mobile industry. It does not make sense to make very complicated chips and then sell some millions of it with less than 1 dollar profit on it, if you can sell that many opamps with more profit. As far as I understand, ARM for industrial is here to stay.

[XFDDesign]

TI was stopping making OMAP for the mobile industry. It does not make sense to make very complicated chips and then sell some millions of it with less than 1 dollar profit on it, if you can sell that many opamps with more profit. As far as I understand, ARM for industrial is here to stay.

Since Mobile space isn't my concern here, I'm okay then!

[XFDDesign]

For what it's worth, here is the radio with the OrangePi mounted currently.

All things considered, I might just keep with buying OPIs due to costs.

[tszaboo]

For what it's worth, here is the radio with the OrangePi mounted currently.

All things considered, I might just keep with buying OPIs due to costs.

Interesting. Which Linux are you using? The ones I saw were pathetic, where basic things like detecting (or setting) screen resolution werent working.

[XFDDesign]

Interesting. Which Linux are you using? The ones I saw were pathetic, where basic things like detecting (or setting) screen resolution werent working.

Just ARMBian. The screen resolution side of things isn't actually important to me, as my end-goal is for this thing to run headless. It's more of an appliance than a PC, I mainly needed the horsepower to crunch 8192pt FFTs, do some decoding, and post results to a website. This project frees a radio and PC, as it consolidates things into a single stand-alone unit.

[mac.6]

IMX / TI stuff is probably the way to go.

The frightening thing is that both TI and the-company-formerly-known-as-Freescale are getting out of the ARM applications-processor market.  TI is just leaving it (AFAIK no plans for ARMv8 chips), and Freescale is leaving by virtue of being bought out by NXP, then Qualcomm, which probably spells the death of future iMX development.  I hope I am wrong but it does appear that the remaining players will all have similar policies toward the "little guy"--no data without NDA, no parts in small quantities, etc.  Allwinner could start looking better in this scenario.  When no company will document and publish as we used to take for granted, the next best choice may be a company which is bad at keeping secrets.

NXP leaving ARM? not even close.
i.MX family is still under development (i.MX8) and are all under extended life (over 10 years) due to automotive market requirements.
Automaker are really conservative guys, that's why Qualcomm had to buy a big player to really enter the market.

[krho]

@XFDDesign:

2 boards fresh out of the oven.

SOPINE64 4xA53@1.2GHz 2G LPDDR3 29$,
Pi Compute module 3 4xA53@1.2GHz 1G LPDDR2, 4G eMMC 30$