Open Hardware Schematic design and layout

[jwhitmore]

At risk of starting a religious war I need to ask about this. :-(

I've been working on, what will to be an open Hardware design for quite some time. I started from scratch and unfortunately started with Eagle. To be fair eagle has worked really well for me but Open it ain't. There is an argument that a Hardware design ain't really Open if you release the design in Eagle, which I have to agree with.

That means I have to bite the bullet and move my designs to another design package and suffer the resulting learning curve. (One of the reasons I ended up on Eagle was that there was a good eBook on amazon that I could read on my kindle over a coffee and go through the whole process.) Now at risk of offending people the two that seem to get mentioned the most are gEDA and Kicad but there are a host of them:

http://www.electroschematics.com/2249/pcb-design-software/

I'm sure this has probably been asked a million times and answered a couple of million times as well but things change. There is a comment on that page I referenced that Kicad was unstable on Linux. I'll be using whatever on Linux so that pushes me towards gEDA but that comment was from a year ago. A lot changes in a year in an opensource project with legs. Actually most important feature of an OpenSource project is a helpful community.

OK there is no right answer to the question so perhaps I should just go with gEDA they're probably "same same but different"

I think this is called "rubber ducking" sitting down verbalising the problem leads to a resolution. Unless somebody have HUGE reason not to it's gEDA. Thank you all for your help.

John

[alexanderbrevig]

KiCAD was deemed the best option for the people at CERN, it may be the same thing applies to you. If you try KiCAD be sure it's the latest release and not the old one.

Good luck!

[Andy Watson]

There is a comment on that page I referenced that Kicad was unstable on Linux.

Seems stable enough to me, but then I steer clear of the bleeding-edge stuff and only update to tried and tested releases.

[jwhitmore]

Who is CERN?

Only joking ;-) and you can't argue with them folks over there so Yeah I'll go with kiCAD and see where that takes me. Already have it installed and reading the basics.
Thanks for the info

[mike_58]

Hello,
There is quite a good reflow oven controller +Open surce - here : 
https://github.com/0xPIT/reflowOvenController/blob/master/README.md
with description and Eagle Cad drawings ....  Similar to this ... seams more simple and with Adafruit 1.8" TFT ...

[awallin]

On a somewhat related note, what do people use for circuit simulation?

LTSpice is free, works under wine on linux, but the user interface is quite horrible.

NI Multisim is not free, works only under windows (?), but has a nicer user interface.

What about qucs, any good?
http://qucs.sourceforge.net/

other alternatives?

[zapta]

If you can design it with the free version of Eagle than your design is open enough. This is what I am doing.

[donotdespisethesnake]

Eagle free license has several restrictions, eg if you have plan on selling OSHW designs then you have to license it. https://oshpark.com/profiles/zapta - did you pay for a license?

Kicad still has some rough edges, and it is a pity that the developers are mostly a bunch of jerks, but it is fully usable. I see more people switching over to Kicad from Eagle (eg. Sparkfun,Adafruit,Dangerous Prototypes,Olimex), I think the CERN involvement has given a lot reassurance.

If you are starting out with a new OSHW project, it makes much more sense to use Kicad than Eagle.

[Scrts]

On a somewhat related note, what do people use for circuit simulation?

As you've mentioned: LTSpice and also TINA TI.

[zapta]

Eagle free license has several restrictions, eg if you have plan on selling OSHW designs then you have to license it. https://oshpark.com/profiles/zapta - did you pay for a license?

I have a paid license but I use only the free version to make sure others can use the files freely.

BTW I don't sell any of my designs.

[free_electron]

I'll probably get some flak for this , but : while CERN may be helping to develop KiCad , you can bet top dollar that NOTHING in that large hadron collider was made with KiCad ... Sure someone at CERN is using KiCad , just like someone at Nasa is using it, or someone at xyz is using it.

Just saying ...

[zapta]

I'll probably get some flak for this , but : while CERN may be helping to develop KiCad , you can bet top dollar that NOTHING in that large hadron collider was made with KiCad ...

Why should they? The Arduino boards they use for the collider come with Eagle files.

[c4757p]

Well, yes. They're not just developing it for themselves, it's part of a larger plan:

http://press.web.cern.ch/press-releases/2011/07/cern-launches-open-hardware-initiative
http://home.cern/about/updates/2015/02/kicad-software-gets-cern-treatment

[analogNewbie]

On a somewhat related note, what do people use for circuit simulation?

LTSpice is free, works under wine on linux, but the user interface is quite horrible.

NI Multisim is not free, works only under windows (?), but has a nicer user interface.

What about qucs, any good?
http://qucs.sourceforge.net/

other alternatives?

http://www.mouser.com/MultiSimBlue/

[Cloud]

KiCAD was deemed the best option for the people at CERN, it may be the same thing applies to you. If you try KiCAD be sure it's the latest release and not the old one.

Good luck!

Actually the latest KiCad stable release is very unstable and full of bugs. The 2013 stable version works the best for me

[timofonic]

KiCAD was deemed the best option for the people at CERN, it may be the same thing applies to you. If you try KiCAD be sure it's the latest release and not the old one.

Good luck!

Actually the latest KiCad stable release is very unstable and full of bugs. The 2013 stable version works the best for me

Can you please provide more  details about your issues?

[Rerouter]

To be a stickler, the definition gives enough leeway to releasing the gerbers and schematic to being more than enough to modify or replicate in any software package, just not as easily as with the original design files and the knowledge to use the package.

I would say layout in what best suits you, if something needs specific structures. e.g. an antenna structure, then describe it on the schematic, If i was making something public, then schematic and Gerber should be enough, and to be honest you dont generally have to go out of your way about it,

[funkathustra]

I agree that KiCAD is the "true" open-source platform for making open-source hardware. However, it's still a bit of a novelty software package. Old versions are really stable, but lack basic features (push-n-shove routing, length tuning, etc). New versions have a ton of new functionality, but crash often.

Altium's CircuitMaker -- while itself not an open-source software package -- is built from the ground up for open-source hardware. It's completely free to download and use, and unlike Eagle's free version, you can do anything with your designs that you want (you're not restricted to noncommercial use, as free Eagle does).

It's cloud-based, so that means there's a huge library of shared parts ready to design with, and there's already hundreds of designs that you can download and contribute to.

Since it uses Altium Designer's codebase, it's obviously Windows-only (like most high-end CAD packages), but it runs well enough on virtual machines to be useful to people who run OS X or Linux.

[dmwahl]

Why does open source hardware need to be created in open source software? Seems to me like open source just means you provide the source for anyone who wants to use it, not that the software used to create it is necessarily open. The Arduino hardware is released as open source, yet the design files are in Eagle.

[c4757p]

It doesn't need to be, but the mentality that leads to one tends to also lead to the other...

Personally, if I'm giving away a design, I want to really give it away, with a software package that is both very affordable (free!) and doesn't impose any artificial limitations. Just because I like those things, that's why I decided to give the design away in the first place

I'm sure that applies to plenty of other people doing open hardware too.

I'm not doing high-end CAD, I don't care if most high-end CAD packages are Windows only... I don't do cloud... etc etc...

[charlespax]

I look at what you're doing as two related, but separate projects. The first is getting your hardware project done. The other is learning KiCAD or other open source tool. I recommend continuing forward with your hardware project, focusing on getting it done. Learn KiCAD on the side or after your project is complete. When your hardware project is complete your first kiCAD project can be transcribing your Eagle files into KiCAD. With this approach you can get your hardware done without worrying about learning a new software package and you can learn a new software package without worrying about designing new hardware.

Making one project depend on the other will make your hardware project take longer. You may never even finish it. Life tends to increase in complexity and personal projects are one of the first things to flex out of the way. Get your hardware project done while you can.

[altaic]

OS X user, here. I've been using KICAD off and on for years, and, yeah, it's got many UI/UX issues.

On a brighter note, however, wxWidgets now supports multitouch in the development build (v3.1), which will be included in the next stable release (v3.2). Even more interestingly, the KICAD guys seem to have patched in multitouch support to the nightly builds: http://downloads.kicad-pcb.org/osx/nightly/

There are still a few little control issues, but it's so much more useable now.

[b_force]

For me personally, the product itself matters.
By that I mean, don't let something like software limit your ideas!!
I rather have an awesome idea that is maybe even made in bootlegged software, but documented very well so other people can use it and maybe improve it, than no project at all.

It's about helping the community, not restricting it.
So, I personally don't get the whole fuzz.

From a practical point of view. Your project will be a bit more accessible if you use something like KiCad.
Another option is using different formats, so everyone is happy. From a design point of view that's only a pain in the butt.

It is sometimes a difficult compromise. I think KiCad is to limited, especially if you go for multiple layer boards with high density.

[ebclr]

As one option for Kicad for open source, and with the advantage to learn the basics if Altium since circuit maker is a simpler version of Altion based on the cloud , Who will help you to get a job  latter, you can register and use circuitmaker.com for free

[LukeW]

On a somewhat related note, what do people use for circuit simulation?

LTSpice is free, works under wine on linux, but the user interface is quite horrible.

NI Multisim is not free, works only under windows (?), but has a nicer user interface.

What about qucs, any good?
http://qucs.sourceforge.net/

Qucs looks very tempting, although I haven't put the time into learning it properly yet.

Anything that can simulate microstrip filters and other distributed-element RF devices for free is extremely tempting.