Electronics > Open Source Hardware

The problem I have with closed (access) papers

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b_force:
Well, technically this isn't about hardware, but since this is the only forum group that's about open source I think this is the right spot.

As a R&D engineer I am often very interested what is going on around the world with new technology.
As an engineer I also strongly believe in how science works; people postulate an theory, do research to test their theories and share it so everyone else can read if their findings are actually not some kind of scam.
Other people can repeat the experiment to confirm the findings of the paper in question.

Unfortunately, what happens quiet often is that people first need to pay a pretty hefty commission to join some kind of society in the first place.
Second is that a lot of times papers are easily 5-20 bucks each!

Of course research isn't free and costs are being made.
But isn't this going right against the whole idea of science; sharing your findings with the world so the rest of the world can criticize it?

I mean asking pretty pennies for just a paper lowers the credibility pretty significant in my opinion.
Also it makes it a lot less accessible for the bigger audience (officially each individual has to buy his own copy).
Which is particularly annoying with certain myths that are still floating around today.

I do see "open access" papers popping up more often, but still a significant amount people need to pay for it.

Mechatrommer:

--- Quote from: b_force on July 14, 2018, 02:27:36 pm ---Unfortunately, what happens quiet often is that people first need to pay a pretty hefty commission to join some kind of society in the first place.

--- End quote ---
ieee community doesnt seem too bad, student membership is about $10-20..


--- Quote from: b_force on July 14, 2018, 02:27:36 pm ---Second is that a lot of times papers are easily 5-20 bucks each!

--- End quote ---
those people got to eat what do you expect? put it to yourself, are you willing to do charity work while at the same time eating grass?


--- Quote from: b_force on July 14, 2018, 02:27:36 pm ---Of course research isn't free and costs are being made.

--- End quote ---
you said it yourself, so they have to compensate, by charging their years of knowledge and R&D. you should be blessed if they even sell it.


--- Quote from: b_force on July 14, 2018, 02:27:36 pm ---But isn't this going right against the whole idea of science; sharing your findings with the world so the rest of the world can criticize it?

--- End quote ---
they share it with the people they know, not some random people that could possibly a maniac or KGB, "criticize" is an ideal term, in reality it can be misused, a free shortcut to the next development etc etc.


--- Quote from: b_force on July 14, 2018, 02:27:36 pm ---I do see "open access" papers popping up more often, but still a significant amount people need to pay for it.

--- End quote ---
usually free access is to the well known knowledge, proven since some decades back. paid papers usually enhancement or specialization of that general knowledge thats been done recently by some usually small group of research team or individuals. it costed money to do the research why do you expect free meal from them? for sensitive cutting edge military grade technologies, just dream on acquiring that type of knowledge even if you have 7 digit money in your pocket.

b_force:
Who cares about student memberships?
We are engineers, not students anymore.

Like I said, I get that people need to eat, that's not the point.
But my whole point is that it drives right against to whole thinking how science works.
I even believe that in people actually reach a smaller audience because of the costs.
In the end you're doing research to get your word out, not to get rich.
Than you're doing the wrong job.

Personally, I see research and writing papers as an ancillary.
So with the job I pay my bills, with papers I reach the audience.

Mechatrommer:

--- Quote from: b_force on July 14, 2018, 03:08:30 pm ---Who cares about student memberships?
We are engineers, not students anymore.

--- End quote ---
if you cant afford professional anual fee of $77 then its too sad, you can either subscribe as student as i suggested, or find another employer who pays decently.


--- Quote from: b_force on July 14, 2018, 03:08:30 pm ---Personally, I see research and writing papers as an ancillary.
So with the job I pay my bills, with papers I reach the audience.

--- End quote ---
you may start to set the example. i believe you are not the first. but you cant force other to follow the course because they may have different problem from yours.

i got your point on open (free) informations for sharing criticizing whatever. you are actually proposing the idealistic of "open source" community. you may learn from that, most others still preferred paid version. mainly due to heavily degraded quality of "open source" product, ask again why? the large chunks who buy "open source" are mostly non-professional non profitable student type people.

rhb:
IEEE commonly charges *members* $25 per paper!

I dropped my membership because it didn't really offer any benefits.  To solve the paper access problem I go to a  university about 75 miles from home and spend a few hours with a USB drive downloading papers.  Far from ideal, but at least I can afford it.

I spent my career in reflection seismology.  Fortunately, SEG does not have such insane paper charges, though SPE does.  So to get those I went though the company library until it ceased to exist.  But for a normal piece of work I would typically collect 20-40 papers.  In some cases *many* more.

Professional societies which charge members for access to the literature are only giving lip service to promoting the field they purport to serve.  Mostly they are feathering someone's nest.

A lot of academics publish first as a departmental report and then submit a paper.  That way the IEEE and Elsevier goon squads can't touch them.

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