[HELP] HDMI 2.0 to MIPI-DSI / LVDS [SOLVED]

[Oneminde]

Once again, EEVblog to the rescue.

I'll try to keep the explanation as simple as possible: Firefly RK3288 Reloaded -> HDMI 2.0 out [4k 60Hz) -> Sharp 5.5" LS055D1SX04 3840 x 2160p 60 Hz IPS display.

The slightly longer explanation is as follows: I am attempting to use the Firefly as media hub / PC for my 4K LCD projector. There is a MIPI / LVDS 40 pin out [J13 on the Firefly pinout] on the Firefly, but the issue is that this 4K signal is limited to 30 Hz via the Rockchip RK3288 CPU - as far as I can tell reading the schematic. So, the only way to use the Firefly's 4K 60Hz option is via the HDMI 2.0 out which is 4K 60Hz. Now, for the monitor, my goal is to use the 5.5" Sharp IPS panel. This panel support 60Hz so naturally, that is what I want. This display also happens to be used in the SONY Xperia Z5 Premium and is the only 4K smartphone on the market. Maybe that info matters and maybe not. But this is where I am.

PS: The display use MIPI-DSI 4 data lane 50 pin connector. (also referred to as FPC)

HDMI 2.0 - DisplayPort (eDP) 1.2 - MIPI-DSI v1.2 is needed for 3840 x 2160p at 60 Hz

So my question is: What can I use or how can I connect the HDMI 2.0 out to the display, what is needed

[poorchava]

Any reason for 4K on something as tiny as 5.5"?

Sent from my HTC One M8s using Tapatalk.

[Oneminde]

Any reason for 4K on something as tiny as 5.5"?

Sent from my HTC One M8s using Tapatalk.

Yes. LCD projector using back light projection through IPS panel. There is a 10.1" 4K 60Hz display with eDP interface, but I'm trying to keep the display as small as possible, hence the 5.5".

[dmg]

Toshiba has some HDMI to MIPI ic's and analog devices also have two IC families capable of getting HDMI and outputting MIPI, at least MIPI CSI. Problem? Good luck buying them without being an HDMI licensed member, not even shady channels like taobao work. Also, at least the analog devices ones were limited to 1080p not very long ago.

[bktemp]

PS: The display use MIPI-DSI 4 data lane 50 pin connector. (also referred to as FPC)

HDMI 2.0 - DisplayPort (eDP) 1.2 - MIPI-DSI v1.2 is needed for 3840 x 2160p at 60 Hz

So my question is: What can I use or how can I connect the HDMI 2.0 out to the display, what is needed

Short answer: If you have to ask, you can't build a HDMI->MIPI converter.

Do you have a datasheet for the display?
I doubt it really supports 3840x2160@60Hz with only 4 lanes:
3840*2160*60Hz*24bpp=12GBit/s = 3GBit/s per lane.
All MIPI transmitters I have seen support only upto 1-1.5GBit/s per lane.

Lower resolultions are much easier:
http://hackaday.com/2014/08/19/a-mipi-dsi-display-shieldhdmi-adapter/
Or you could use a SSD2828 instead of the FPGA.

[daveshah]

Just curious - have you found a way round the compression that panel normally uses? Looking at the kernel device tree entries for the Z5 Premium it appears to use some kind of Qualcomm proprietary FBC to get 4k 60fps over two 4-lane DSI channels.

[Oneminde]

Since I am still investigating a controller, I can't answer all the questions.

But here is panel spec on panelook.com: http://www.panelook.com/LS055D1SX04_SHARP_5.5_LCM_parameter_27124.html

Driver IC: COG Built-in NT35950 - This, to me, indicate that the panel have a driver IC which takes care of the signal that arrives. Then there is what SONY does in their circuits. Maybe I am way off when I say that the panel itself handle the data flow, but the display was not manufactured for SONY, they decided to use it. Sharp will launch their own 4K phone soon via their AQUOS series.

I am also aware of the hackerday project and maybe 4K support comes in the future.

I am also aware of the Toshiba chip TC358860XBG: VESA's Embedded Display Port (eDP™) ? MIPI® DSI (4K @ 60 Hz)
There is also: Texas Instruments SN65DSIx6-Q1 MIPI® DSI to eDP™ Bridge which is very similar: http://www.ti.com/product/SN65DSI86-Q1/datasheet

 

[Kilrah]

Driver IC: COG Built-in NT35950 - This, to me, indicate that the panel have a driver IC which takes care of the signal that arrives.

All this says is that there is a COG that takes whatever interface the display is supposed to work with (MIPI here) and generates the actual row/column signals to drive the pixels, like... every display nowadays.

There is also: Texas Instruments SN65DSIx6-Q1 MIPI® DSI to eDP™ Bridge which is very similar: http://www.ti.com/product/SN65DSI86-Q1/datasheet

This has TWO 4-lane DSI inputs, and both have to be used together (aka 8-line total) to get 4K@60p.

BTW I highly doubt you'd be able to source one of those displays in the first place before long given they're supposed to barely even be available to high volume manufacturers yet.

[TiN]

If you feeling like gamble, you can design base board for the Firefly core board (since projector application mentioned, you don't need much interfaces I'd expect?) and route native MIPI from the CPU to your LCD.
That will take you month or two, given experience in hi-speed serdes links, impedance matching and such  If it's one off project, it's cheaper to buy off the shelf 4K projector...

Toshiba TC358870XBG is HDMI 1.4 -> MIPI , but only UHD 30fps

[bktemp]

Aside from getting the 13Gbit/s into the display, you may also need an initialization sequence for the display. If you are lucky the standardized MIPI commands are enough to make the display work, but I have seen many MIPI displays that also required an additional initialization sequence. If you don't have a datasheet it is often impossible to turn the displays on.

[Oneminde]

Driver IC: COG Built-in NT35950 - This, to me, indicate that the panel have a driver IC which takes care of the signal that arrives.

All this says is that there is a COG that takes whatever interface the display is supposed to work with (MIPI here) and generates the actual row/column signals to drive the pixels, like... every display nowadays.

There is also: Texas Instruments SN65DSIx6-Q1 MIPI® DSI to eDP™ Bridge which is very similar: http://www.ti.com/product/SN65DSI86-Q1/datasheet

This has TWO 4-lane DSI inputs, and both have to be used together (aka 8-line total) to get 4K@60p.

BTW I highly doubt you'd be able to source one of those displays in the first place before long given they're supposed to barely even be available to high volume manufacturers yet.

You are right, to get 60Hz, you need dual port. I've done some more research and I'm on the right track. But will explore as much as possible before I reveal what.

- EDIT -
The display can be sourced as SONY Xperia Z5 Premium replacement display. Price; $184 usd 

[Oneminde]

If you feeling like gamble, you can design base board for the Firefly core board (since projector application mentioned, you don't need much interfaces I'd expect?) and route native MIPI from the CPU to your LCD.
That will take you month or two, given experience in hi-speed serdes links, impedance matching and such  If it's one off project, it's cheaper to buy off the shelf 4K projector...

Yes one can design around the Firefly. But 4K projector off the shelf is not cheaper. SONY's cost $8200 and IS the cheapest available atm.

[Kilrah]

JVC has one for $3900 AFAIK.

[Oneminde]

JVC has one for $3900 AFAIK.

"The JVC DLA-X500R is not true native 4K. This isn’t the first time that I have seen this written about a product, but it is the third iteration of its e-shift technology that can stimulate 4K with a pixel-shift process. The technology is able to shift diagonally to effectively make 4K. It might not be true 4K, but it is better than 1080p. Of course, the user can actually disable the 4K e-shift3 feature, which will enable you to get a decent 1080p image."

Source (among several that say the same): http://4k.com/projector/jvc-dla-x500r-4k-projector-review/

To my knowledge, atm and without Texas Instruments more affordable 4K DLP chip which will be released this spring followed by products at the end of 2016, the cheapest true 4K projector is SONY's. With that being over $8K, affordable might mean $3500-4000... maybe.

[Oneminde]

Well well, who knew. But I found it.

Basically, the solution gives me:

- Dual 4-lane MIPI-DSI D-PHY 1.2 or 2x MIPI-DSI 4-lane, 60fps, up to 4096×2160 (dual port) support.
- HDMI 2.0 out/in. Support for 4K 60Hz streaming capture and playback.
- Supports: Linux Kernal 4.4 aka Ubuntu 16.04 (LTS) Xenial Xerus.
- Support audio: 24bit/192kHz FLAC playback
- Offering seamless connectivity to external memory, sensors, and a host of other peripheral devices via the comprehensive list of configurable IO.

I would say that this is exactly what I am looking for. Within a 170mm x 170mm [6.69 x 6.69 in] physical size (for the board)

This mean that the computer and display is less than $800 usd and well within my $1500 total budget - and for that I get 4K@60Hz media hub projector - a non existing product.

 

[TiN]

And what is it?

P.S. Proper test gear, few 4-6layer PCB runs, components BOM cost and assembly cost of something DIY with links like this would cost about that sum of mentioned sony So it's close, and without guaranteed results. But lots of learning fun, that's for sure.

[Oneminde]

And what is it?

P.S. Proper test gear, few 4-6layer PCB runs, components BOM cost and assembly cost of something DIY with links like this would cost about that sum of mentioned sony So it's close, and without guaranteed results. But lots of learning fun, that's for sure.

Actually, with a mix of "its difficult" and "can't be done" mentality (in general), I were reluctant to disclose the exact solution. But since you ask so nicely, why not: Keyword: Snapdragon 820 development board. Essentially the same stuff SONY used to develop their Xperia Z5 Premium. But now, I have full access to whatever the Snapdragon 820 are capable of and that mean, fully fledged custom made PC that run the SHARP display without any limitations on input source (analogue and digital).

Rev.1 will be board used as is with expansion so that the Linux Kernel and connected devices works flawlessly - basically the prototype. SATA storage expandability and HiRes Audio out.
Rev.2 will be custom board "unlimited edition" - If I decide to make this available as a product release for the masses.

Sort of like that.

- A 3840 x 2160 p at 60Hz projector that runs cool thanks to very efficient neutral white 4500K LED's with a combined output of 4000-5000 lumens (typical max).
- Media hub, besides used as projector can stream HiRes audio out: 24bit/192kHz FLAC playback.
- The Ubuntu OS will allow for full experience in regards to media streaming.
- This is then paired with a high contrast projection screen/panel with extremely high contrast - OLED mimicry. Very deep and flat blacks with excellent light throwback. [also under development]
- Sub $2000 projected price point package.

[Kilrah]

- Dual 4-lane MIPI-DSI D-PHY 1.2 or 2x MIPI-DSI 4-lane, 60fps, up to 4096×2160 (dual port) support.

So 8 lanes confirmed. How are you sending that into the display that you said uses only 4?

Envoyé de mon SM-G930F en utilisant Tapatalk

[TiN]

Well, enjoy your solution (which is not a solution, utill it's on the table, doing it's thing), whatever it is Hopefully we will not see other threads "help! How to drive 4K LCD using xxx" poping up once you get all the hardware. Hope it will all work OOB for you.

[Oneminde]

- Dual 4-lane MIPI-DSI D-PHY 1.2 or 2x MIPI-DSI 4-lane, 60fps, up to 4096×2160 (dual port) support.

So 8 lanes confirmed. How are you sending that into the display that you said uses only 4?

How do one know what info you read and what is true or not... he he. BUT, it is a 4K 60Hz display and if you look at the data lanes in this picture which is the Sharp / SONY display, you will see 10 lanes. So 8 out of 10 is the data lanes.

[Oneminde]

Well, enjoy your solution (which is not a solution, utill it's on the table, doing it's thing), whatever it is Hopefully we will not see other threads "help! How to drive 4K LCD using xxx" poping up once you get all the hardware. Hope it will all work OOB for you.

Thanks

[iceryan]

Bravo, for exploring this project. I too have looked into the possibility and have learned from this post, and will share my resources on the matter:

>The OEM UHD 5.5" Z5P screen can be got here for approx. $100usd - http://www.etradesupply.com/sony-xperia-z5-premium-lcd-screen-and-digitizer-assembly-black.html

>Chinavasion sells a 3800lumen projector that has a 5.8 LCD panel in it that can be swapped out https://www.chinavasion.com/china/wholesale/LED_Projectors/HD_Projectors/3800-Lumens-HD-LED-Projector-White/

This is a good proof of concept start. The projector provides light, cooling, optics to project a 5.8 lcd.

Only thing missing is the controller between the UHD screen and being able to accept DP or HDMI 2.0 input.... If my friend, you can direct how to achieve that, I have my own PC/Mediabox sources to send out the signal UHD@60fps... great work, look forward to hearing back.

[Oneminde]

Bravo, for exploring this project. I too have looked into the possibility and have learned from this post, and will share my resources on the matter:

>The OEM UHD 5.5" Z5P screen can be got here for approx. $100usd - http://www.etradesupply.com/sony-xperia-z5-premium-lcd-screen-and-digitizer-assembly-black.html

>Chinavasion sells a 3800lumen projector that has a 5.8 LCD panel in it that can be swapped out https://www.chinavasion.com/china/wholesale/LED_Projectors/HD_Projectors/3800-Lumens-HD-LED-Projector-White/

This is a good proof of concept start. The projector provides light, cooling, optics to project a 5.8 lcd.

Only thing missing is the controller between the UHD screen and being able to accept DP or HDMI 2.0 input.... If my friend, you can direct how to achieve that, I have my own PC/Mediabox sources to send out the signal UHD@60fps... great work, look forward to hearing back.

Sure thing, the electronics as for now is the Snapdragon 820 dev board. Essentially the same stuff driving the SONY Xperia Z5 Premium phone. There are a few options, but Intrisyc Open Q 820 have MIPI out, dual connector which makes it possible to drive the LCD at 4K 60 hertz. Price is around $550. There are other options I will explore as well.

[iceryan]

Bravo, for exploring this project. I too have looked into the possibility and have learned from this post, and will share my resources on the matter:

>The OEM UHD 5.5" Z5P screen can be got here for approx. $100usd - http://www.etradesupply.com/sony-xperia-z5-premium-lcd-screen-and-digitizer-assembly-black.html

>Chinavasion sells a 3800lumen projector that has a 5.8 LCD panel in it that can be swapped out https://www.chinavasion.com/china/wholesale/LED_Projectors/HD_Projectors/3800-Lumens-HD-LED-Projector-White/

This is a good proof of concept start. The projector provides light, cooling, optics to project a 5.8 lcd.

Only thing missing is the controller between the UHD screen and being able to accept DP or HDMI 2.0 input.... If my friend, you can direct how to achieve that, I have my own PC/Mediabox sources to send out the signal UHD@60fps... great work, look forward to hearing back.

Sure thing, the electronics as for now is the Snapdragon 820 dev board. Essentially the same stuff driving the SONY Xperia Z5 Premium phone. There are a few options, but Intrisyc Open Q 820 have MIPI out, dual connector which makes it possible to drive the LCD at 4K 60 hertz. Price is around $550. There are other options I will explore as well.

Cool...! Does it allow total passthru of HDMI to the display, or must there be some type of OS in the middle...?

[Oneminde]

Bravo, for exploring this project. I too have looked into the possibility and have learned from this post, and will share my resources on the matter:

>The OEM UHD 5.5" Z5P screen can be got here for approx. $100usd - http://www.etradesupply.com/sony-xperia-z5-premium-lcd-screen-and-digitizer-assembly-black.html

>Chinavasion sells a 3800lumen projector that has a 5.8 LCD panel in it that can be swapped out https://www.chinavasion.com/china/wholesale/LED_Projectors/HD_Projectors/3800-Lumens-HD-LED-Projector-White/

This is a good proof of concept start. The projector provides light, cooling, optics to project a 5.8 lcd.

Only thing missing is the controller between the UHD screen and being able to accept DP or HDMI 2.0 input.... If my friend, you can direct how to achieve that, I have my own PC/Mediabox sources to send out the signal UHD@60fps... great work, look forward to hearing back.

Sure thing, the electronics as for now is the Snapdragon 820 dev board. Essentially the same stuff driving the SONY Xperia Z5 Premium phone. There are a few options, but Intrisyc Open Q 820 have MIPI out, dual connector which makes it possible to drive the LCD at 4K 60 hertz. Price is around $550. There are other options I will explore as well.

Cool...! Does it allow total passthru of HDMI to the display, or must there be some type of OS in the middle...?

Pass through, well, you need an OS, either Android or Linux. Essentially, you could use it as a slave and have another main computer I guess