A resistor that never gets hot?

[T3sl4co1l]

FYI, LTSpice is free but not freeware.  You might be looking for NGSpice instead..?

LTSpice is supported in WINE, FWIW.

Tim

[John Heath]

FYI, LTSpice is free but not freeware.  You might be looking for NGSpice instead..?

LTSpice is supported in WINE, FWIW.

Tim

Is LTSpice crippleware , or stops working after a while? What is the difference between LTSpice and NGSpice?

[Marco]

Do you have a link to a freeware simulator?

Another free but not freeware simulator, which I use, is the free version of Simetrix (limited in circuit nodes). It has far better convergence. When you are just throwing unrealistic circuits at a simulator to get a feel for things that's helpful.

I only know of one guaranteed convergence simulator though, NL5 (maybe Falstad too?). Which I see now also has free software to try it out. Never used it but might be interesting :

https://en.softonic.com/download/idealcircuit/windows

[timb]

TINA TI is also free (it’s a limited version of the full TINA simulator) and has an easier to use interface than LTspice (which is admittedly terrible). However, LTspice is the most powerful (and most accurate) free simulator you can get. The fact that Linear Tech uses it internally to develop their analog and power ICs should tell you everything you need to know. It’s well worth it to learn the UI.

[John Heath]

Is LTSpice crippleware , or stops working after a while? What is the difference between LTSpice and NGSpice?

No. Just license terms. LTSpice is strictly not licensed to be used by semiconductor companies. For other users, it's free and not crippled.

NGSpice is open source SPICE based on SPICE3F5 and XSPICE, it's much slower and less optimized, but it's based on the exact authentic SPICE3F5 code, so it's very likely that if its result contradicts with anyone else' result, NGSpice is correct.

Also through XSPICE, you can implement custom parts, which enables behavior model based mixed signal simulation.

Well LTSpice is now installed but it does not care for my user32.dll in windows vista. It seems there is always another problem. Maybe NGSpice or XSpice. 

I do not see a thread called "bump that thread "?

[John Heath]

TINA TI is also free (it’s a limited version of the full TINA simulator) and has an easier to use interface than LTspice (which is admittedly terrible). However, LTspice is the most powerful (and most accurate) free simulator you can get. The fact that Linear Tech uses it internally to develop their analog and power ICs should tell you everything you need to know. It’s well worth it to learn the UI.

It this point I would be happy to have any simulator that will install and work. What happened to taking pride in writing code with people like Norton. Norton software would run on anything as he would write the code on the oldest computer he could find to make sure it was backwards compatible. And he had a night mare of mono , cga , ega and vga video cards to deal with.

[timb]

Is LTSpice crippleware , or stops working after a while? What is the difference between LTSpice and NGSpice?

No. Just license terms. LTSpice is strictly not licensed to be used by semiconductor companies. For other users, it's free and not crippled.

NGSpice is open source SPICE based on SPICE3F5 and XSPICE, it's much slower and less optimized, but it's based on the exact authentic SPICE3F5 code, so it's very likely that if its result contradicts with anyone else' result, NGSpice is correct.

Also through XSPICE, you can implement custom parts, which enables behavior model based mixed signal simulation.

Well LTSpice is now installed but it does not care for my user32.dll in windows vista. It seems there is always another problem. Maybe NGSpice or XSpice. 

I do not see a thread called "bump that thread "?

Windows Vista is pretty old and isn’t supported with the current Windows version (which is for 7 and above). You can grab the older version (LTspice IV) here: http://ltspice-iv.en.lo4d.com
(It was replaced by LTspice 17 last year, so it’s still rather current.)

If that doesn’t work, try TINA TI from www.ti.com, it’s easy to use.

[John Heath]

Is LTSpice crippleware , or stops working after a while? What is the difference between LTSpice and NGSpice?

No. Just license terms. LTSpice is strictly not licensed to be used by semiconductor companies. For other users, it's free and not crippled.

NGSpice is open source SPICE based on SPICE3F5 and XSPICE, it's much slower and less optimized, but it's based on the exact authentic SPICE3F5 code, so it's very likely that if its result contradicts with anyone else' result, NGSpice is correct.

Also through XSPICE, you can implement custom parts, which enables behavior model based mixed signal simulation.

Well LTSpice is now installed but it does not care for my user32.dll in windows vista. It seems there is always another problem. Maybe NGSpice or XSpice. 

I do not see a thread called "bump that thread "?

Windows Vista is pretty old and isn’t supported with the current Windows version (which is for 7 and above). You can grab the older version (LTspice IV) here: http://ltspice-iv.en.lo4d.com
(It was replaced by LTspice 17 last year, so it’s still rather current.)

If that doesn’t work, try TINA TI from www.ti.com, it’s easy to use.

Thank you for the help

Now that I look the one I installed is XVII or 17. You said TINA easier to use. That is polite way of saying LTSpice is not easy to use. I will give TINA a try.


 While I have your attention I was looking for a PIC series simulator.  that can run off a hex file to save time.  r as I realy do not need advanced simulator just quick and dirty for the meat ball st

[AndyC_772]

LTSpice is easy to use. Slightly unconventional, admittedly, but that doesn't make it hard provided you can RTFM.

IMHO, it's a very rare thing indeed when it comes to free software. It actually worth more than you paid for it.

[John Heath]

Is LTSpice crippleware , or stops working after a while? What is the difference between LTSpice and NGSpice?

No. Just license terms. LTSpice is strictly not licensed to be used by semiconductor companies. For other users, it's free and not crippled.

NGSpice is open source SPICE based on SPICE3F5 and XSPICE, it's much slower and less optimized, but it's based on the exact authentic SPICE3F5 code, so it's very likely that if its result contradicts with anyone else' result, NGSpice is correct.

Also through XSPICE, you can implement custom parts, which enables behavior model based mixed signal simulation.

Well LTSpice is now installed but it does not care for my user32.dll in windows vista. It seems there is always another problem. Maybe NGSpice or XSpice. 

I do not see a thread called "bump that thread "?

Windows Vista is pretty old and isn’t supported with the current Windows version (which is for 7 and above). You can grab the older version (LTspice IV) here: http://ltspice-iv.en.lo4d.com
(It was replaced by LTspice 17 last year, so it’s still rather current.)

If that doesn’t work, try TINA TI from www.ti.com, it’s easy to use.

Thank you for the help

Now that I look the one I installed is XVII or 17. You said TINA easier to use. That is polite way of saying LTSpice is not easy to use. I will give TINA a try.


 While I have your attention I was looking for a PIC series simulator.  that can run off a hex file to save time.  r as I realy do not need advanced simulator just quick and dirty for the meat ball st

This is not going well and I need to ventilate so that everyone else shares in my misery. The TINA solution plan "A" did not pan out as the download was not 1  not 2 but no less than 29 files of which I am supposed to know which files are needed. What happened to 1 file called TINA.exe that takes care of itself. Plan "B" the the older version 4 of LTSpice.exe not LTSpice17.exe has it has a problem with user32.dll. The download of LTSpice.exe ver 4 went well delivering the goods of 1 file LTSpice.exe clearly marked version 17 not version 4 . Why would a download button marked LTSpice ver 4  download a file marked LTSpice ver 17 that has the user32.dll problem? Plan "C" google the user32.dll problem for a possible fix. Found it. A rather long 3 paragraphs of unnecessary information ending with no fix yet for user32.dll problem . Why not " no fix " first then 3 long paragraphs of unnecessary information? Plan "D" return here to ventilate my misery. I could not even have that as the net when down before sending so all was lost. I had to wait 3 hours for the net to come back up then rewrite everything. Frustrating and still no simulator software. This is a rhetorical post.   

[timb]

Uh, TINA TI should be a single installer file, not 29. Where did you see 29 files at? Because I’m not seeing that here: http://www.ti.com/tool/TINA-TI
(You will have to create a free account with TI before downloading.)

Here’s a direct link to LTspice IV: http://ltspice.linear-tech.com/software/LTspiceIV.exe (FYI, there is no fix for the user32.dll problem with LTspice 17; it’s simply not designed to work on anything older than Windows 7. You really should think about upgrading to at least Windows 7 as Vista is increasingly becoming a security risk, due to it being EOL by Microsoft. Programs are also increasingly requiring a minimum of Windows 7 to function, so you’re going to see this more and more.)

[John Heath]

Well that was easy. It was right there in front of my nose? The lesson here is do not press the button that says software and tools. That one takes you to a selection of 29 files not 1 friendly file Tina90.zip. Zip is unfortunate as my unzip is corrupted with another malware unzip that wants money before unzipping.  It is clever malware that makes it impossible to uninstall with any of the anti malware software that I have used. My solution was to use Explorer as the default unzipper or manually with an old dos version of unzip. When I try the run Tina90.zip it tries to open explorer which trigger malware to think unauthorized redirect so it closes it. The end result is an oscillation of Tina90.zip opening explorer to unzip competing with auto malware shutting it down. Control alter delete for task manager does not work to shut it down as it keeps opening up again.  The only way out was to pull the plug and reboot from scratch. I am not the only one with this problem so why would they use a zip format. Band width is not the problem it used to be so why use a zip file format. There is a light at the end of the tunnel. I am now registered at Tina with Email conformation and I have the file Tina90.zip.  Just need to find a way to unzip it without the computer going crazy.

[Conrad Hoffman]

One of our local computer guys is quite famous and I'd suggest following his clean-up procedures here- http://securitytango.com/tango.php

I've never had a problem with LTSpice on any machine or OS. The learning curve is easy and the results 1st rate. But you need a clean machine to start with, for that or anything else.

[kalel]

You could try scanning the file with a service like this, and if it finds something, report it to the developers:
https://www.virustotal.com/#/home/upload
(it's not an ad for the service, it's just one of those multi-scanners that will detect more things than a single one)

In any case, you could/should report your inconvenience to them, so that they can address the issue.

[John Heath]

I have Tina9 installed and running. It was a matter of changing the window association for zip files from explorer to and old DOS zip.exe. Thanks to all for the help. I should leave something on the table. A scientific spectrum lab that is freeware. It is a camel not a race horse as people from around the world have been adding to it. A few screen shots to get a feel for it. Some unusual options such as quad antenna stereo input to detect the direction an EM wave is coming from , Real time internet streaming time stamped the universal time to share live data with others around the world. Auto logged audio wave files for later analysis also time stamped and much more. I use it for Van Allan belt monitoring , VLF monitoring  lighting strikes from half way around the world and sun plasma bursts. Description and download at http://www.qsl.net/dl4yhf/spectra1.html . The  download is about 80 percent down the page.   

[John Heath]

Where are my ICs in the Tina9 software? I see a 555 timer and an op-amp. Where is the 4000 series and 74hc series of ICs. Do I have to down load these separately?

[timb]

Where are my ICs in the Tina9 software? I see a 555 timer and an op-amp. Where is the 4000 series and 74hc series of ICs. Do I have to down load these separately?

These type of SPICE simulators are primarily for doing analog simulation, not digital. (Not to say you can’t; I know there are limited sets of 4000 and 74 series models for LTspice, for example, but these type of packages don’t excel pure at digital simulation, since they will be simulating the analog characteristics of each transistor and FET of the part.)

You should also know that SPICE simulators like this aren’t intended to simulate an entire large circuit in a single go. You’re meant to break it up into smaller chunks. (If you need to use the output of one chunk as the input of another, you can save the output as a waveform (PWL file) and then use it as an input later.)

Anyway, based on your OP we thought you needed a good analog simulator. If you want to do fast digital simulation we can recommend some software for that.o

[John Heath]

I watched a few videos on Tina and LTSpice and I see what you mean. Analog for amplifiers , oscillators and such , cool.  Easier to make mistake in Tina than the real world. Hard to burn resistors or over heat a transistor if they are only virtual. Good stuff. Should be able to simulate a polarity switching inductor with power FETs to see how it performs for DC currents.

[IDEngineer]

A pure reactance, capacitive or inductive, will have no losses. Unfortunately, there is no way to supply and switch the current with zero ohms in series.

There's also the speed of light issue... even if all else is "perfect", the magnetic field in the inductor does not form and collapse instantaneously. Its inductive reactance is not constant with time which leads to very real effects that even theoretically perfect components cannot eliminate.

[John Heath]

A pure reactance, capacitive or inductive, will have no losses. Unfortunately, there is no way to supply and switch the current with zero ohms in series.

There's also the speed of light issue... even if all else is "perfect", the magnetic field in the inductor does not form and collapse instantaneously. Its inductive reactance is not constant with time which leads to very real effects that even theoretically perfect components cannot eliminate.

Fascinating. I have been stewing this and I think there is a way to prove that Tina would screw it up just as you say. An example. I will construct a cable that has a series inductance .5 u Henry per meter with a shunt capacity of 9 p Farad per meter. If I ask Tina what the propagation speed of such a cable would be she would calculate 2 c ! Information must never travel faster that light so Tina is wrong. The natural properties of a vacuum are 1.2 u Henry by 9 p Farad per cubic meter which when calculated sets the speed of light at c. I suspect Tina is not going to stop and ask me how long my .5 u Henry inductor is to stay obedient to relativity. This being the case Tina could screw it up for real life simulation.

[T3sl4co1l]

Propagation delay is not a loss, indeed it works the other way: propagation is the general form, and capacitance and inductance manifest at low frequencies as an approximation.

Consider that all inductors are just lengths of wire, coiled up somehow or another, and all capacitors are two conductors very nearby, wadded up somehow or another.  These are just transmission lines -- not very good ones (typically dispersive, or interconnected in weird ways), but the essence is there.

Inductor losses arise from well understood low frequency phenomena, so that we very rarely have to analyze problems as transmission lines, rather it's enough just to reflect on where these things are coming from.

Other wave mechanics apply -- skin effect primarily (and the analogous effect in lossy permeable cores, whether the loss is hysteresis or eddy currents).

Tim

[T3sl4co1l]

This being the case Tina could screw it up for real life simulation.

It is a poor craftsman who blames his tools.

The model is only as good as the squishy meat-computer commanding it. If you told it to model an all-pole system, you should expect it to tell you nothing other than the properties of that system; you certainly should not expect an ideal transmission line, as that would be expecting the computer to do something completely different from what it was told!

"Pray tell, Mr. Babbage; if one should enter incorrect numbers in the Engine, can it still produce the correct result?"

Tim

[John Heath]

Where are my ICs in the Tina9 software? I see a 555 timer and an op-amp. Where is the 4000 series and 74hc series of ICs. Do I have to down load these separately?

These type of SPICE simulators are primarily for doing analog simulation, not digital. (Not to say you can’t; I know there are limited sets of 4000 and 74 series models for LTspice, for example, but these type of packages don’t excel pure at digital simulation, since they will be simulating the analog characteristics of each transistor and FET of the part.)

You should also know that SPICE simulators like this aren’t intended to simulate an entire large circuit in a single go. You’re meant to break it up into smaller chunks. (If you need to use the output of one chunk as the input of another, you can save the output as a waveform (PWL file) and then use it as an input later.)

Anyway, based on your OP we thought you needed a good analog simulator. If you want to do fast digital simulation we can recommend some software for that.o

I was looking at some more videos on Tina. Apparently there are Tinas and there are TINAS . I took a picture off the videos so you can see the difference between Tina and TINA TINA gets optoelectronics , your choice of logic ICs , a bunch of MCUs , A/D D/A converters , the list go on and on. What did I get in the "Tina package" one stinking 555 timer ?  What am I supposed to do with that blink a  LED on and off? What am I chicken liver here? Why does TINA get all the good stuff while I am stuck with one stinking 555 timer? Pardon the humor as I need the practice. I am sure it is a Tina library add on. Just wondering where to find this Tina library add on for those MPUs and such?

[John Heath]

Propagation delay is not a loss, indeed it works the other way: propagation is the general form, and capacitance and inductance manifest at low frequencies as an approximation.

Consider that all inductors are just lengths of wire, coiled up somehow or another, and all capacitors are two conductors very nearby, wadded up somehow or another.  These are just transmission lines -- not very good ones (typically dispersive, or interconnected in weird ways), but the essence is there.

Inductor losses arise from well understood low frequency phenomena, so that we very rarely have to analyze problems as transmission lines, rather it's enough just to reflect on where these things are coming from.

Other wave mechanics apply -- skin effect primarily (and the analogous effect in lossy permeable cores, whether the loss is hysteresis or eddy currents).

Tim

I think I have a handle on domain hysteresis and eddy currents but skin effect I do not understand. Why do electrons prefer scooting alone the skin of copper? If I hammer a copper round wire flat does it have less resistance as there is now more surface skin that the electrons like? If you can shed some light on this I would not mind hearing it.

[timb]

Where are my ICs in the Tina9 software? I see a 555 timer and an op-amp. Where is the 4000 series and 74hc series of ICs. Do I have to down load these separately?

These type of SPICE simulators are primarily for doing analog simulation, not digital. (Not to say you can’t; I know there are limited sets of 4000 and 74 series models for LTspice, for example, but these type of packages don’t excel pure at digital simulation, since they will be simulating the analog characteristics of each transistor and FET of the part.)

You should also know that SPICE simulators like this aren’t intended to simulate an entire large circuit in a single go. You’re meant to break it up into smaller chunks. (If you need to use the output of one chunk as the input of another, you can save the output as a waveform (PWL file) and then use it as an input later.)

Anyway, based on your OP we thought you needed a good analog simulator. If you want to do fast digital simulation we can recommend some software for that.o

I was looking at some more videos on Tina. Apparently there are Tinas and there are TINAS . I took a picture off the videos so you can see the difference between Tina and TINA TINA gets optoelectronics , your choice of logic ICs , a bunch of MCUs , A/D D/A converters , the list go on and on. What did I get in the "Tina package" one stinking 555 timer ?  What am I supposed to do with that blink a  LED on and off? What am I chicken liver here? Why does TINA get all the good stuff while I am stuck with one stinking 555 timer? Pardon the humor as I need the practice. I am sure it is a Tina library add on. Just wondering where to find this Tina library add on for those MPUs and such?

The full version of TINA is a commercial package and costs several hundred dollars to start. However, TI offers models that will work in their cut down version of TINA. Also, most other standard Berkeley SPICE models will work, but these are full analog simulations of the digital parts, so it will be slow.

To be honest, the digital simulation in TINA isn’t that great to begin with, so you’re not missing much. If you want basic digital simulation, check it iCircuit. It costs like $10, but it works on Windows, Mac, iOS and Android, is easy to use and includes a comprehensive library of digital building blocks (it also does basic analog simulation as well). There’s also the free, browser based Falstad Online Circuit Simulator that’s nice for sharing basic ideas with other people.

By the way, did you see the working download link to LTspice IV I found for you? You really should give it a try. Watch some videos on it, play around. http://ltspice.linear-tech.com/software/LTspiceIV.exe