Author Topic: all AC vacuum tube circuits?  (Read 2398 times)

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Offline CopperConeTopic starter

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all AC vacuum tube circuits?
« on: June 17, 2018, 06:34:03 pm »
Did they have vacuum tube circuits that run like triacs, diacs, etc on all AC without filter caps to make high voltage rails? It's hard to imagine it working.
 

Online Gyro

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Re: all AC vacuum tube circuits?
« Reply #1 on: June 17, 2018, 06:56:17 pm »
Best Regards, Chris
 

Online NiHaoMike

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Re: all AC vacuum tube circuits?
« Reply #2 on: June 17, 2018, 06:57:20 pm »
The common microwave oven is one example. (The capacitor is for voltage doubling, not filtering.)
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Online Gyro

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Re: all AC vacuum tube circuits?
« Reply #3 on: June 17, 2018, 07:00:49 pm »
Did they have vacuum tube circuits that run like triacs, diacs, etc on all AC without filter caps to make high voltage rails? It's hard to imagine it working.

EDIT: Triodes, Pentodes etc will also work happily on AC (all hot cathode tubes are capable of rectifying, within limits).
Best Regards, Chris
 

Offline CopperConeTopic starter

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Re: all AC vacuum tube circuits?
« Reply #4 on: June 17, 2018, 07:25:39 pm »
did they have things like dimmers/crude drives that used that kind of stuff?
 

Offline T3sl4co1l

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Re: all AC vacuum tube circuits?
« Reply #5 on: June 17, 2018, 07:49:32 pm »
Monarch 10EE Lathe for example,



http://www.lathes.co.uk/monarch/page2.html

in 1949, in line with new developments in electronics, the Reliance rotating motor-generator set (DC) arrangement was replaced by a system that used electronic-tube controlled thyratrons to rectify AC current to a variable DC voltage to drive a DC motor.

A lamp dimmer made for 5HP DC motors surely fits the bill. ;D

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Online Ian.M

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Re: all AC vacuum tube circuits?
« Reply #6 on: June 17, 2018, 08:00:09 pm »
 

Offline floobydust

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Re: all AC vacuum tube circuits?
« Reply #7 on: June 17, 2018, 08:15:25 pm »
Colour organs using thyratrons, that fueled psychedelic rock before hippies could afford SCR's.
 

Offline Benta

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Re: all AC vacuum tube circuits?
« Reply #8 on: June 17, 2018, 08:45:18 pm »
did they have things like dimmers/crude drives that used that kind of stuff?

I can assure you that there is nothing crude about the Monarch 10EE thyratron drive.

 

Offline Circlotron

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Re: all AC vacuum tube circuits?
« Reply #9 on: June 17, 2018, 10:36:48 pm »
I read somewhere that some very early Morse code transmitters used on aeroplanes were fed raw AC from a wind driven alternator. If the AC frequency was high enough it would have transmitted a tone, not just steady carrier.
 

Offline Alex Eisenhut

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Re: all AC vacuum tube circuits?
« Reply #10 on: June 18, 2018, 12:43:04 am »
There's a user here with a great mercury-arc rectifier as avatar....



Small country sized ones:

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/48/Pole_1_mercury_arc_valves.jpg

So yeah, they work.
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Offline T3sl4co1l

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Re: all AC vacuum tube circuits?
« Reply #11 on: June 18, 2018, 10:32:53 am »
I read somewhere that some very early Morse code transmitters used on aeroplanes were fed raw AC from a wind driven alternator. If the AC frequency was high enough it would have transmitted a tone, not just steady carrier.

The Alexanderson alternator was the first, high power, CW generator for, what were at the time, high frequencies (~100kHz).

Although I don't know how practical that would've been onboard aircraft; maybe not much, but then maybe just fine with a tow line antenna.

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Offline Circlotron

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Re: all AC vacuum tube circuits?
« Reply #12 on: June 18, 2018, 11:00:30 am »
^^ Yeah, I meant AC HT fed to a tube type CW transmitter, the wind driven alternator simply for power supply duty. One of those old timey HF alternators airborne would be something else again.
 

Online Ian.M

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Re: all AC vacuum tube circuits?
« Reply #13 on: June 18, 2018, 12:06:54 pm »
I read somewhere that some very early Morse code transmitters used on aeroplanes were fed raw AC from a wind driven alternator. If the AC frequency was high enough it would have transmitted a tone, not just steady carrier.

The Alexanderson alternator was the first, high power, CW generator for, what were at the time, high frequencies (~100kHz).

Although I don't know how practical that would've been onboard aircraft; maybe not much, but then maybe just fine with a tow line antenna.

Tim
If its a biplane then a loop antenna would have been fairly easy - run just under the skin of the upper surface of the top wing, then to the bottom wing at the outer strut then back under the skin of the bottom surface if the bottom wing and continuing the same on the other side.

A trailing end-fed long-wire antenna isn't going to be particularly effective without a metal fuselage as a counterpoise.   Metal skinned airplanes became increasingly common from the mid 1920s onwards, as did amplifying vacuum tubes, so the odds that anyone used a trailing long wire antennae with an airborne  Alexanderson alternator other than purely experimentally are quite low - by the time metal skinned planes that could form an effective counterpoise were on the market, the  Alexanderson alternator was very much on the way out.  Also an Alexanderson alternator is a heavy brute - there's no way of avoiding it at the speed it spins using 1920's materials and metallurgy, so it would have taken up a serious chunk of the payload capacity of early planes.

There were WW1 era artillery observer aircraft that had an on-board transmitter and a 150' trailing wire antenna, but they used spark transmitters.   A 150' wire is a quarterwave at about 1.6MHz - well above the maximum practical frequency for a small Alexanderson alternator of a few hundred KHz.
« Last Edit: June 18, 2018, 12:26:14 pm by Ian.M »
 

Offline T3sl4co1l

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Re: all AC vacuum tube circuits?
« Reply #14 on: June 18, 2018, 03:53:40 pm »
That would be an odd juxtaposition; I forgot that the two things (generators and biplanes) were about a decade apart.  Close but no cigar :P

Tim
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Offline drussell

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Re: all AC vacuum tube circuits?
« Reply #15 on: June 18, 2018, 04:00:14 pm »
Indeed, it is because of thyratron tubes that SCRs and TRIACs are types of a class of semiconductors called thyristors:)
 


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