Author Topic: Capacitor Quality  (Read 40184 times)

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Offline nctnico

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Re: Capacitor Quality
« Reply #50 on: December 13, 2015, 03:05:23 pm »
If you deem capacitor life to be a potentially important factor in your product, then as a design engineer you do not take chances (budget allowing), you design in the top brand parts that have many decades of quality brand reputation in the industry. Do you think the tops brand have not earned their industry reputation?
You can buy crappy capacitors from reputable brands as well. You can actually buy 85 degrees capacitors with a longer service life then 105 degrees capacitors. Without digging deep into the capacitor's spec sheet there is no way to tell what has been designed in. You really need to look at the service life and temperature rating of a capacitor to make a meaningful comparison. And then again a designer can have opted to use a bigger or smaller capacitor.
There are small lies, big lies and then there is what is on the screen of your oscilloscope.
 

Online tszaboo

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Re: Capacitor Quality
« Reply #51 on: December 13, 2015, 03:17:21 pm »
It's likely that the designer did not specify a brand. The BOM could simply have "1000uF 10V RB 5mm pitch Electrolytic".
We both know this is a design practice to some, and agree it is a guide to failure.
It doesnt even take a capacitor, it can be even semiconductor, write the manufacturer there. I had LM317s, which produced very different overshoot for different manufacturer. I had TVS diodes, same part numberwhere the TSMC (your video card likely to be produced there) had 10 times the leakage current than the ST part. I had Crystal oscillator, the same fracking farnell code, Multicomp  :palm: with different drive capabilities from batch to batch. There are no compatibles, at least not in a precision equipment.
Some years ago, a product of mine went into series production. The supply chain manager came, and told me that the subcontractor want to make it with Lelon, instead of the Nichicon, I've designed in, can I approve it? Never even heared about Lelon back then. They wanted to save something like 0,5% of the total cost with the different brand. If the board fails, some service engineer has to get on an airplaine, and travel to maybe japan to replace the board. I did not approve it, got my manager support for it. We made it with Nichicon, to date, never had a single one failed with this problem. There is a power supply next to it, made by Meanwell, it is using capxon and other brands. They did not fail either.
The moral of the story: I did not had any sleepless nights, knowing, that I made the right choice. Because it is not just "probably" working.
 

Offline amyk

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Re: Capacitor Quality
« Reply #52 on: December 13, 2015, 04:51:32 pm »
In the end, the best people to ask about caps are not design engineers - it's the repair techs.
I don't think so, because everything they see is defective in some way. There's a huge selection bias there. The infamous capacitor plague aside, perhaps they see more bad Chinese caps than Japanese ones simply because far more equipment uses the former.

About endurance testing, the BadCaps forum boss tried it a few years ago, but the results were... you can read for yourself:

http://www.badcaps.net/forum/showthread.php?t=2179&page=10

This also reminds me, 1000hr@105C decoupling cap right under a laptop's CPU. That was clearly planned obolescence...
« Last Edit: December 13, 2015, 04:57:25 pm by amyk »
 

Online calzap

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Re: Capacitor Quality
« Reply #53 on: December 13, 2015, 05:27:24 pm »
In the end, the best people to ask about caps are not design engineers - it's the repair techs.
I don't think so, because everything they see is defective in some way. There's a huge selection bias there. The infamous capacitor plague aside, perhaps they see more bad Chinese caps than Japanese ones simply because far more equipment uses the former.

You make a good point.  In addition,  even if cheaper brand caps are seen to have failed more often by repair techs, there can be other factors than them being more common.   They may be used if more iffy designs with regard to cooling, voltage regulation, etc., and the support components and manufacturing practices may not be as good.  In addition, customers may place cheaper end-products in harsher environments or treat them with less care.

I'm not minimizing the role of repair techs in ferreting out bad quality and outright mistakes in design and manufacturing.  They are invaluable in this role and are sentinels whose warnings have to be investigated.

Probably, the only satisfactory way to compare brands of caps is competent testing by an unbiased lab.  It would have to be an on-going process because today's winners could be tomorrow's losers.  How to get it done though is the tough part.

Mike in California

 

Online Fungus

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Re: Capacitor Quality
« Reply #54 on: December 13, 2015, 05:27:38 pm »
A badly laid out PSU full of NCCs running very hot is probably going to die before a well-cooled one full of CapXons.
This.

Capacitor choice is only a small part of the design.

If you design it so the capacitors don't get hot then you don't necessarily need top brands.

Of course such designs might need you to put caps in parallel to reduce ESR, etc., so you might end up paying the same. Even so, it could still be a more reliable design than just spending top dollar on fancy caps then stressing them.
 

Offline station240

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Re: Capacitor Quality
« Reply #55 on: December 13, 2015, 05:45:23 pm »
I wonder how much of the capacitor quality issues are related to electrolyte, and how many are due to 2nd rate plate materials.

From what I understand about Gel Cell batteries, the really high quality (10 year warranty) batteries use virgin lead, where as the ones that die after a few years use recycled lead (no doubt from previous cheap batteries). I wonder how much of a factor this sort of thing is in capacitors as well ?
 

Online dexters_lab

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Re: Capacitor Quality
« Reply #56 on: December 13, 2015, 07:53:53 pm »
Dave, one thing i have noticed taking caps apart is the quality of the aluminium foil, the cheaper brands seem to have visible defects on them, streaky lines on the anode (normally matt grey from the oxide layer and etching) and blotchy patterns on the cathode (normally brighter / silvery)

The better brands seem to have a better quality finish so you might want to open a few of them up to compare, could Ben Krasnow help out using his SEM?

Other things might affect the long term reliability, like the quantity and purity of the electrolyte and it's paper carrier. Could a cheaper brand skimp on the quantity of electrolyte so there is only just enough, a better brand might include a little more to help prevent drying out over time and have a better long term reliability? No idea how you might test for this though.

have attached a great document from Nichicon about the finer technical details of electrolytic caps, well worth a read

Offline madires

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Re: Capacitor Quality
« Reply #57 on: December 13, 2015, 08:04:34 pm »
Other things might affect the long term reliability, like the quantity and purity of the electrolyte and it's paper carrier. Could a cheaper brand skimp on the quantity of electrolyte so there is only just enough, a better brand might include a little more to help prevent drying out over time and have a better long term reliability? No idea how you might test for this though.

The forming process is also important. Cheap brands could speed up the forming process to reduce costs, i.e. thinner oxide layer.
 

Online Zero999

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Re: Capacitor Quality
« Reply #58 on: December 13, 2015, 08:46:46 pm »
This also reminds me, 1000hr@105C decoupling cap right under a laptop's CPU. That was clearly planned obolescence...
That's not good but those capacitor seem to be be solid, not wet electrolyte so should be more tolerant of heat, than wet capacitors.
 

Offline engiadina

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Re: Capacitor Quality
« Reply #59 on: December 13, 2015, 10:27:50 pm »
Regarding Leylon caps ...

I did some consulting for a large company in terms of component procurement. They actually did long term tests and stress tests with various brands of capacitors.

What I can say from that is that the tested Leylon caps were equal to Nichicon, Nippon Chem, Panasonic. I've been a bit biased as well. But I have to admit that those Leylon caps performed excellent.
 

Offline plesa

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Re: Capacitor Quality
« Reply #60 on: December 13, 2015, 10:49:47 pm »
I think that all vendors have their own pandora's box. Some of them in this box have only batches, some of them product series and some of them their whole portfolio:)
On product level soldering process (time and temperature) affect capacitors lifetime as well. So it is not only the manufacturer of components who can screw thins up.
Many times I saw that designer did not consider all design aspects and voltage rating were underrated.
 

Offline EEVblog

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Re: Capacitor Quality
« Reply #61 on: December 14, 2015, 12:04:21 am »
Dave, one thing i have noticed taking caps apart is the quality of the aluminium foil, the cheaper brands seem to have visible defects on them, streaky lines on the anode (normally matt grey from the oxide layer and etching) and blotchy patterns on the cathode (normally brighter / silvery)
The better brands seem to have a better quality finish so you might want to open a few of them up to compare, could Ben Krasnow help out using his SEM?

The problem there is you really have to know the electro-chemistry involved in capacitors to know what's good/bad or what actually makes a difference.
 

Online Fungus

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Re: Capacitor Quality
« Reply #62 on: December 14, 2015, 12:59:28 am »
In the end, the best people to ask about caps are not design engineers - it's the repair techs.

 Ding, ding, ding. We have a winner. :-+

Not necessarily. Some product brands/engineers will stress caps more than others.

Will somebody who's rubbish at cooling but always chooses good caps necessarily win out over somebody who always buys mid-range caps but knows about cooling, owns a thermal camera and often puts two (or more) caps in parallel where there's high stress?
 

Offline Tothwolf

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Re: Capacitor Quality
« Reply #63 on: December 14, 2015, 06:48:40 am »
Exactly, but it's not sufficient anyway. Many crap capacitors performed accelerated tests just fine. But when they reached the real world, turned out they fail prematurely. For example Nippon Chemi-con KZG series or Nichicon HM, HN series if talking about good brands. I have read a while ago that high voltage and temperature used in accelerated tests prevented some negative effects which caused capacitors to fail in real use conditions.

Nippon / United Chemi-con KZG and KZJ series parts were defective in design and have a 100% failure rate.

The ultra-low ESR Nichicon HM and HN series were decent parts. According to Nichicon, they had at least one production line which was overfilling the electrolyte in these two series. HM and HN series parts made after 2004 are perfectly fine (I continue to use NOS late production HM and HN parts as replacements for faulty Nippon / UCC KZG). The HZ series (HM->HN->HZ) seems to not have been affected at all.

Some people have confused the faulty Nippon / United Chemi-con KZG / KZJ and the batch of defective Nichicon HM / HN parts with the earlier "capacitor plague", however all three of these are distinct events.
« Last Edit: December 14, 2015, 07:09:04 am by Tothwolf »
 

Offline fanOfeeDIY

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Re: Capacitor Quality
« Reply #64 on: January 01, 2016, 02:25:41 pm »
Hi,

I used to work for a Japanese Manufacturing Company and would like to share about my experience.

The biggest issues for selecting the good quality electrolytic capacitor are that:
(1)No *economically* good method to evaluate or test the reliability and durability of capacitors when the capacitors arrived at the factory and before assembling to the product.
(2)There are so many fake or counterfeit capacitors get *mixed* even going through the company’s procurement department or using named distributors.

For the above (1), measuring capacitance, ESR and leakage or some companies have more know-how to test them, but bad caps are really difficult to reject them before putting into assembling lines. Even using the cheap or no brand name’s capacitors will pass the QA test of the final stage of assembly lines.

After the products sold in the market, the bad cap fails after about two or more years later which is no good way to *predict*.

As a result, the discussion of selecting the good quality capacitors do not become technical talk, it becomes more like a trust, hunch and experience of the past.

This is one of the reasons, so many companies relay on the brand of the capacitors.
Because having the leaking electrolytic capacitors are one of the frequent faulty claims of the product from the customer, which could lead ruin the Manufacture’s reputation.

It is deadly serious situation.

As a result, the electrolytic capacitor is similar to The Market for Lemons, and this is the reason well-known companies, who would like to have good reputation, have tendency to select the capacitor by the brand of the capacitor.

BTW, nichicon and nippon chemi-con are completely different companies.
« Last Edit: January 01, 2016, 05:06:47 pm by fanOfeeDIY »
 

Offline fanOfeeDIY

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Re: Capacitor Quality
« Reply #65 on: January 01, 2016, 02:49:50 pm »
If you going to select the electrolytic capacitor by the brand name, this is a chart posted on a forum in Japan. :)

Listed from known to be good quality from high on top to low.
(1)nippon chemi-con, Sanyo (acquired by Panasonic), Hitachi
(2)nichicon , Panasonic, Rubycon
------- Above is top category ------
(3)ELNA
(4)TEAPO
-------Above is normally good, from here is one of the wall of reliability -------
(5)CapXON
-------From here, it is not recommended in high load circuit -------
(6)OST
------- From here, would be better to avoid if it is possible to avoid-------
(7)Jackcon, Fuhjyyu
------- From here, known to be high percentage of failing-------
(8)G-Luxon, Lelon
------- Others, avoid them.......-------

But this information is nothing back uped with techinical reason.
It is more like a preference.
« Last Edit: January 01, 2016, 05:02:59 pm by fanOfeeDIY »
 
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Online wraper

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Re: Capacitor Quality
« Reply #66 on: January 01, 2016, 03:04:32 pm »
If you going to select the electrolytic capacitor by the brand name, these are commonly used chart in Japan. :)

Listed from known to be good quality from high on top to low.
(1)nippon chemi-con, Sanyo (acquired by Panasonic), Hitachi
(2)nichicon , Panasonic, Rubycon
------- Above is top category ------
(3)ELNA
(4)TEAPO
-------Above is normally good, from here is one of the wall of reliability -------
(5)CapXON
-------From here, it is not recommended in high load circuit -------
(6)OST
------- From here, would be better to avoid if it is possible to avoid-------
(7)Jackcon, Fuhjyyu
------- From here, known to be high percentage of failing-------
(8)G-Luxon, Lelon
------- Others, avoid them.......-------

But this information is nothing back uped with techinical reason.
It is just one of common sense.
This chart is really stupid. Putting Elna and teapo together  :palm:, Crapxon over OST,  Fuhjyyu (cheapest crap you can get) above G-luxon and lelon (not so bad capacitors actually) :palm: |O
Quote
------- Others, avoid them.......-------
This chart is missing most of more or less decent mid range caps which are better than teapo. And BTW Teapo and G-Luxon (2nd and bottom grade in your chart) are the same company and owned by Yageo which sells caps under their own brand too. Check the main page of the website http://www.luxon.com.tw/
« Last Edit: January 01, 2016, 03:50:41 pm by wraper »
 

Online wraper

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Re: Capacitor Quality
« Reply #67 on: January 01, 2016, 03:52:52 pm »
Sanyo for solid state caps, Panasonic and Elna for liquid caps.
There is no Sanyo for many years. Either you go for Panasonic (OS-CON) or Suncon (which became independent company) for liquid.
Quote
Sanyo are almost guaranteed to be authentic
Just LOL, considering they are not made for many years.
« Last Edit: January 01, 2016, 03:55:27 pm by wraper »
 

Offline ciccio

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Re: Capacitor Quality
« Reply #68 on: January 01, 2016, 06:14:58 pm »
I'v read this thread only today.
I've a not big experience in capacitors used in switching PSU, except for some motherboard repair, but I have a lot of experience and reliability data (experimental) on electrolytics used in standard PSU and dc filtering on board.
I read that Lelon has a bad reputation. My experience is the following:

About 35 years ago we got maybe the first lot of Lelon caps sold in Italy.
I remember well those 1uF, 50 V caps, used to control the time constants in a compander circuit: we had to replace more than 50% at test  time,  because they were open circuit or very (+1000 %) out of range.
So we put Lelon on our "black list".
After one year our suppliers were all out of stock for 22uF 35V caps.
The only available were Lelon, so the boss said OK to them, but check wery well.
They worked flawless (and sure they were, because we had zero returns imputable to them, and we were buying tens of thousands of them).

In another case, about 30 years ago, I assembled the prototype  of a new graphic equalizer board, did not check well the artwork and two of these Lelon caps were installed with reverse polarity, on +/- 15 V supply lines.
Well, we discovered my mistake after about 500 boards / 2 years, when Lelon was replaced with another brand, which  went into flames / magic smoke at first switch-on. We contacted some of our customers and checked some old boards: capacitors were reverse biased, but still into specs. Obviously we replaced them, with the correct polarity.

Shure, all what I wrote above has no real meaning, because electrolytics are not supposed to work with reverse voltage applied, but it makes me believe that Lelon is a reliable brand.



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Offline Wester547

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Re: Capacitor Quality
« Reply #69 on: February 11, 2016, 11:15:32 pm »
The ultra-low ESR Nichicon HM and HN series were decent parts. According to Nichicon, they had at least one production line which was overfilling the electrolyte in these two series. HM and HN series parts made after 2004 are perfectly fine (I continue to use NOS late production HM and HN parts as replacements for faulty Nippon / UCC KZG). The HZ series (HM->HN->HZ) seems to not have been affected at all.
This was never actually proven and that announcement didn't actually stem from Nichicon, it stemmed from a university in Iowa:

Quote
Recently Dell recently discovered potential problems with a capacitor on the system board of GX270 systems with medium and small form factor motherboards. The problem is isolated to a specific capacitor supplier which was used in system boards manufactured from April 2003 to March 2004. The defective Nichon capacitors were placed on two manufacturers' GX270 motherboards between 04/01/2003 to 03/20/2004.

However we have discovered that the Nichon capacitors were not all produced outside control specifications. Rather the affected capacitors were limited to certain batches made during specific shifts during the manufacturing process. This means that not all GX270 motherboards are affected. Unfortunately, there is not specific way to determine which motherboards are affected and which are not.

Specifically the capacitors were filled with more liquid than required. After an approximate service life of 300 days and when the CPU reaches a core temperature of 64 degrees C they will begin to bulge and eventually overflow onto the motherboard causing a system crash and a "No Post" failure on boot. There is usually no data loss associated with this issue.

Dell became aware of the problem in the last several weeks based on high numbers of customer tech support calls related to the GX270 motherboard failures. Because of the extremely long time lag between system install and the beginning of the failure rate spike it was impossible to anticipate the problem we now face. In response to our engineering research regarding the suspect capacitors and motherboards, we have decided to proactively replace GX-270 motherboards at specific customer locations.

The GX270 motherboards have not been made in the past year and our on hand reserves required for normal fix on fail warranty repairs have been strained. We have arranged for these motherboards to be remanufactured however that process takes time to ramp up. Delivery of sufficient numbers of boards to move forward with proactive field replacement is not anticipated for some weeks.
I think they were of the assumption that they were "overfilled" because they were leaking an overabundance of electrolyte. Nichicon never actually commented on the defective HMs and HNs. Any announcement (at least that I could find on the Internet) that the problem would be "fixed" came from Dell.

Quote
Further intelligence revealed that Kamei/Jamicon sources its electrolytes from Sanyo in Japan, and likely was not affected by the faulty electrolyte supply.
Nope. The follow up article to that issue shows Sanyo denying that they supply Jamicon with electrolyte:

http://old.passivecomponentmagazine.com/files/archives/2002/PCI_02_06Nov-Dec.pdf

I'm sure many of those bad bands, IE Teapo, Lelon, OST, G-Luxon, and Jamicon, were lying so as to protect themselves. It's very unlikely they pay the higher premium for importing higher purity materials from Japan - they can't even be bothered to QC test their products.

Quote
Proadlizer caps are notoriously bad for failures. Actually their performance is superb, but they killed too many laptops, eapecially Toshiba ones.
Yup, those are terrible. The Proadlizer capacitor (of a tantalum polymer class) was manufactured by Chemi-con and NEC as a joint effort. I don't know what exactly went amiss during the manufacturing process. Maybe the polymerization process was ineffective, IE residue could have been left over on any of the layers of functional polymer on the cathode (possibly using polypyrrole), creating a leakage path which grew over time (especially with high heat and humidity) and resulting in all those failures. Just a theory of course...

Quote
The forming process is also important. Cheap brands could speed up the forming process to reduce costs, i.e. thinner oxide layer.
Cheaper brands use very bad materials and faulty electrolyte, so faulty that such capacitors could actually bulge in a sealed bag (as shown in this thread with those CapXon LZ capacitors), in a cool and dry environment, retaining their full leads, without ever having been soldered to a board, or without having bias applied to the plates or conducting current (although heat can certainly expedite such chemical reactions). Really bad brands use shoddy quality aluminum foil (with purity below 98%, the minimum specified by DAPO), which contains an excess of copper, zinc, magnesium, and iron, and that can certainly cause hydrogen gas to form at the cathode.

Seems like Lelon is not a shabby brand.
YXA series has been discontinued in 2012, so either the ones used are NOS or fake parts. Anyway, YXA are low end parts, direct equivalent of Lelon RGA.
Rubycon YXA are good, general purpose capacitors (although PX has indeed replaced them for some time). You just need to use them properly, IE within specifications. Lelon has always been a terrible brand - one of the primary brands associated with the so-called "capacitor plague".

A badly laid out PSU full of NCCs running very hot is probably going to die before a well-cooled one full of CapXons.
No, not really, unless you're referencing KZGs and KZJs (those are also known to bulge in storage).

But CapXon is a terrible brand. No brand has a higher failure rate in LCD monitors.

Quote
Exactly, but it's not sufficient anyway. Many crap capacitors performed accelerated tests just fine. But when they reached the real world, turned out they fail prematurely. For example Nippon Chemi-con KZG series or Nichicon HM, HN series if talking about good brands. I have read a while ago that high voltage and temperature used in accelerated tests prevented some negative effects which caused capacitors to fail in real use conditions.
The higher voltage generates the dielectric film on the anode faster and keeps it thicker, which prolongs the thinning of the dielectric, IE the H2O base electrolyte's tendency to attack the aluminum oxide layer, convert the aluminum into hydroxide, and outgassing thereafter. The problem with cheap brands is that the water-base electrolyte that they use does not contain the proper hydrogen absorbers, corrosion inhibitors, depolarizers, and conductivity enhancers to stabilize the oxide film and suppress the aggressiveness of that type of electrolyte. That type of electrolyte needs very pure materials, good manufacturing (effective QC testing), and excellent additives to remain stable. So it's not IF but WHEN those bad capacitors fail. Of course, there is more to it than that - it's critical that the electrolyte has a chemical composition that isn't bound to wreak havoc upon the rest of the materials. pH values are also vital, because too high a pH value (higher than 7) and the electrolyte becomes basic rather than acidic, which means they are more chemically prone to instability.

But without question, QC testing is the most important factor of all, and that's what most cheap Taiwanese and Chinese brands miss, and that is the reason for their inconsistency and unpredictable performance in the real world. The Japanese brands process all their own materials (which are always of high purity and quality) and perform extensive QC testing on all (if not most, possibly evidenced by the defective KZG, KZJ, HM, and  HN series, unless they were counterfeit) of their capacitors. Most cheap brands don't bother with QC testing at all, so whatever defects that are present in their products won't actually show up until some time after they're manufactured, IE when they reach the consumer and when it is no longer those companies' problem.

As for the Lelons that survived reverse voltage? It would make sense if they were bi-polar electrolytics by any chance. OR, if Lelon made a mistake and sleeved those capacitors with the polarity stripe the wrong way around from the factory (more likely the latter). Or possibly because they were installed on a negative output. No electrolytic that isn't bi-polar can survive reverse polarity for long, not even the highest quality electrolytic of sorts (unless they're semi-polar). Reverse polarizing capacitors exceeds the reverse bias (cathode) voltage, which usually isn't higher than 1.5V. And just to be clear, all wet electrolytic capacitors have some sort of wear out mechanism. The liquid electrolyte is prone to giving away and drying up over time, whether through rubber seal diffusion or through the self-healing mechanism. But there is certainly a difference between the top tier brands and the lesser quality ones.
« Last Edit: February 12, 2016, 02:14:30 am by Wester547 »
 

Offline wagon

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Re: Capacitor Quality
« Reply #70 on: February 12, 2016, 12:03:59 am »
I noticed 'Rubycon' being put up as a reliable brand... in the 1990's Mitsubishi Electric used millions of them in their automotive electronics.  I've replaced probably thousands of them after they leaked their guts or exploded.  Whatever model cap they were, they were crap.  But good for business. (Some of the failures were under 5 years of vehicle operation, so not a lot of hours)
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Offline Wester547

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Re: Capacitor Quality
« Reply #71 on: February 12, 2016, 01:05:52 am »
^ There was another "capacitor plague" of sorts in the late 80s and early 90s known as the "Quaternary Ammonium Salt / Compound" issue. The problem was not in the organic solvent (usually either ethylene glycol or gamma butyrolactone) but in the solution (the quaternary ammonium salt system), where over a period of time (even on the shelf) the solution would harden and turn to a caustic, acidic substance, and the rubber bungs and lead wires were no longer sufficient in sealing the electrolyte so it leaked from the bottom and tended to corrode traces... this was a massive issue in automobile ECUs from the late 80s and early 90s.

The problem was severe enough for Chemi-con to issue a notice on the matter (attached).

The series that were affected from the "top tier brands" are:

Nichicon - PF, PA (not the new series from 2006), PB, PR, PL, PY, PQ, PC, VZ, VT, RZ, RT, PG
Chemi-con - LXF, SXE, TXF, SXF, SXG
Rubycon - YXB, YXC, SSP, and possibly a few other series
Panasonic - NHE (GE series), HFQ, HFS, HFE
Elna - RSH, RSG, RSE, RC2S, RC3S

All of the affected series are rated from -55C to +105C in their datasheets. The quaternary ammonium salt system is not used in electrolytics anymore, with the exception of double layer electrolytics.
« Last Edit: March 05, 2016, 05:43:20 am by Wester547 »
 

Offline nctnico

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Re: Capacitor Quality
« Reply #72 on: February 12, 2016, 01:06:36 am »
The ultra-low ESR Nichicon HM and HN series were decent parts. According to Nichicon, they had at least one production line which was overfilling the electrolyte in these two series. HM and HN series parts made after 2004 are perfectly fine (I continue to use NOS late production HM and HN parts as replacements for faulty Nippon / UCC KZG). The HZ series (HM->HN->HZ) seems to not have been affected at all.
This was never actually proven and that announcement didn't actually stem from Nichicon, it stemmed from a university in Iowa:

Quote
Recently Dell recently discovered potential problems with a capacitor on the system board of GX270 systems with medium and small form factor motherboards. The problem is isolated to a specific capacitor supplier which was used in system boards manufactured from April 2003 to March 2004. The defective Nichon capacitors were placed on two manufacturers' GX270 motherboards between 04/01/2003 to 03/20/2004.

However we have discovered that the Nichon capacitors were not all produced outside control specifications. Rather the affected capacitors were limited to certain batches made during specific shifts during the manufacturing process. This means that not all GX270 motherboards are affected. Unfortunately, there is not specific way to determine which motherboards are affected and which are not.
I actually have such a Dell GX270 and after replacing the capacitors it worked fine for another 5 (or so) years running 24/7 after which the capacitors needed replacing again. IMHO the root problem is not the capacitors themselves but more likely heat and/or a large ripple current which puts a lot of stress on the capacitors. Some batches maybe overfilled making the capacitors prone to early failure but there sure is a problem in the design of the onboard power supply as well!
There are small lies, big lies and then there is what is on the screen of your oscilloscope.
 

Offline ktulu

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Re: Capacitor Quality
« Reply #73 on: September 05, 2017, 08:45:18 am »
Hello.
I need to replace all the leaky electrolyte capacitors in a nice Sony SW77 radio. The only problem is, that unfortunately all the supplyers nearby only sell chinese brand caps. (Samxon, Capxon etc...)
Question is, should I use these, or rather remove some old used, but good brand caps (Rubycon, Nichicon, Panasonic...) from some boards that I have laying around? (which measure good both on capacitance and ESR)
 

Online wraper

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Re: Capacitor Quality
« Reply #74 on: September 05, 2017, 09:25:55 am »
Hello.
I need to replace all the leaky electrolyte capacitors in a nice Sony SW77 radio. The only problem is, that unfortunately all the supplyers nearby only sell chinese brand caps. (Samxon, Capxon etc...)
Question is, should I use these, or rather remove some old used, but good brand caps (Rubycon, Nichicon, Panasonic...) from some boards that I have laying around? (which measure good both on capacitance and ESR)
Samxon is fine. And in general there is no much problems with Chinese capacitors if they are not LOW ESR and working at high ripple current, like in SMPS. Don't use old caps, some may have no much life left in them. Yes, capacitors made by 1st tier companies do fail too.
 
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