good books on vacuum tube design?

[sarepairman2]

?

[Alex Eisenhut]

How to design the tubes themselves? Or *with* tubes? Design *what*? Audio amplifiers in the single digit watt range? Kilowatt range? RF amplifiers? Photomultipliers? Microwave stuff? Backward wave oscillators to the THz range?

[sarepairman2]

physics level vacuum tube stuff

[Alex Eisenhut]

physics level vacuum tube stuff

The RCA receiving tube manual is good.
http://www.tubebooks.org/tubedata/RC30.pdf

There's probably a MIT Rad Lab volume on that too.

[joeqsmith]

First suggestion without knowing what you are looking for:

ARRL Handbooks, something pre 1960s
RCA Receiving Tube Manual 

If you really want to see some good info, try and find a copy of:

Applications Manual for Computing Amplifiers for Modelling Measuring Manipulating & Much Else

It's more an analog designers guide with a sprinkle of tubes....   

[sarepairman2]

thank you, that is a good start

i think i have an idea that might bring the vacuum tube back to life

[AF6LJ]

physics level vacuum tube stuff

The RCA receiving tube manual is good.
http://www.tubebooks.org/tubedata/RC30.pdf

There's probably a MIT Rad Lab volume on that too.

I second that  I have it in both hard, and soft copy.
Very useful, not just for the theory, there is an application section in the back.

[HAL-42b]

Mike used to have a very good one on his site, don't know if he still keeps it there.

Gas Discharge Tubes - Dr J. G. W. Mulder.

[AF6LJ]

Another good suggestion is Bill Orr's Radio handbook.
In some respects better than the ARRL Handbooks.

[chris_leyson]

A few that spring to mind, all on my bookshelf, but 200 miles away 
The Radiotron Designer's Handbook by J. Langford-Smith, It was reprinted a few years ago, can't find the ISBN number grrr
Universal vade-mecum if you want data sheets still available I think
Valve Amplifiers by Morgan Jones, might still have that, dunno

Principles of Electron Tubes, Herbert Reich 1941 - A classc. Can't find a copy of that one, seems the audiophiles grab those.
Just found a scanned copy  check links below, i know what I'm going to be reading this weekend 

http://www.qsl.net/va3iul/Files/Old_Radio_Frequency_Books.htm
http://www.tubebooks.org/technical_books_online.htm

[daqq]

Philip Parker : Electronics, 1950

I don't know if you can find it online, I have a paper copy. If you run into one copy, definitely buy it. See:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/1950s-book-copyright-can-i-scan-this-and-upload-it/

[Pjotr]

physics level vacuum tube stuff

For the real physics of vacuum tubes there are several good pre WW2 books. For that you need to go to the library of the physics department of a (technical) university. Some of those books have nice pictures that illustrate the static fields in a tube with the use of rubber sheets... I have not found such material on the web.

[Cubdriver]

Some from my shelf:

Vacuum Tubes - Karl Spangenberg - 1948

Electronic Circuits and Tubes - Cruft Electronics Staff - 1947

Vacuum Tube Circuits - L. B. Arguimbau - 1948

And of course the aforementioned Radiotron Designer's Handbooks.

-Pat

[Cubdriver]

A few that spring to mind, all on my bookshelf, but 200 miles away 
The Radiotron Designer's Handbook by J. Langford-Smith, It was reprinted a few years ago, can't find the ISBN number grrr
Universal vade-mecum if you want data sheets still available I think
Valve Amplifiers by Morgan Jones, might still have that, dunno

Principles of Electron Tubes, Herbert Reich 1941 - A classc. Can't find a copy of that one, seems the audiophiles grab those.
Just found a scanned copy  check links below, i know what I'm going to be reading this weekend 

http://www.qsl.net/va3iul/Files/Old_Radio_Frequency_Books.htm
http://www.tubebooks.org/technical_books_online.htm

This one seems to be available as a reprint as of 2013 in both soft and hardcover on Amazon.  I'll be looking into it...

http://www.amazon.com/Principles-Electron-Tubes-Herbert-Reich/dp/1258664062/ref=tmm_hrd_swatch_0?_encoding=UTF8&qid=1453920562&sr=8-1

-Pat

[oldway]

...
The Radiotron Designer's Handbook by J. Langford-Smith, It was reprinted a few years ago, can't find the ISBN number grrr....

I have the Radio designer's handbook fourth edition by F. LANGFORD-SMITH
First published (Australia) : 1934
Second edition : 1935
Third edition : 1940
Fourth edition: 1953
BKS1635/53

[uncle_bob]

physics level vacuum tube stuff

Hi

As in the physics of how to do the insides of a vacuum tube.

Are you planning to run a hot cathode or not?

Bob

[sarepairman2]

physics level vacuum tube stuff

Hi

As in the physics of how to do the insides of a vacuum tube.

Are you planning to run a hot cathode or not?

Bob

i have no idea, I have a fair bit of reading cut out for me with all these posts, maybe i can tell you in a month lol

[Stray Electron]

   'Gaseous Conductors' by James D. Cobine, McGraw Hill, 1941.  It's one of those good OLD text books that really teaches you the theory and the practice. But good luck finding a copy. It took three years for me to find one and I had buy someone's entire library to get it!  Despite the slightly misleading title, it goes into the characteristics of fluorescent lights, vacuum and partial vacuums, inert gasses, hydrogen gas (thyratrons), Mercury vapor, etc as well as the nature of the anode and cathode and space charge. Unlike radio tube books that deal with VT amplifiers and the like, this book covers every aspect of electron flow inside of tubes under many different circumstances. They do discuss radio type tubes but that is just one single use.

[HAL-42b]

Conduction of electricity through gases - J.J. Thomson

available at arxive.org

[sarepairman2]

   'Gaseous Conductors' by James D. Cobine, McGraw Hill, 1941.  It's one of those good OLD text books that really teaches you the theory and the practice. But good luck finding a copy. It took three years for me to find one and I had buy someone's entire library to get it!  Despite the slightly misleading title, it goes into the characteristics of fluorescent lights, vacuum and partial vacuums, inert gasses, hydrogen gas (thyratrons), Mercury vapor, etc as well as the nature of the anode and cathode and space charge. Unlike radio tube books that deal with VT amplifiers and the like, this book covers every aspect of electron flow inside of tubes under many different circumstances. They do discuss radio type tubes but that is just one single use.

this sounds like exactly what I am looking for.

I find some of the old texts extremely good, they give you the information in a manner that it is much easier to detect the concept, because it is not obfuscated by too many profitable applications

maybe the old authors were more excited by the stuff too

is this it? http://product.half.ebay.com/Gaseous-Conductors-Theory-and-Engineering-Applications-by-James-D-Cobine-1941-Paperback/48999312&tg=info

[Alex Eisenhut]

http://www.tubebooks.org/Books/Atwood/RCA%201940%20Vacuum%20Tube%20Design.pdf

It's in the title! 

[sarepairman2]

ok i bought that old book 

i think i will start with that low level physics book governing the gas behavior before i get into the other literature

[uncle_bob]

physics level vacuum tube stuff

Hi

As in the physics of how to do the insides of a vacuum tube.

Are you planning to run a hot cathode or not?

Bob

i have no idea, I have a fair bit of reading cut out for me with all these posts, maybe i can tell you in a month lol

Hi

Well, it's one of many very big differences in which way you go with this. I've worked with a number of tube designers. They tend to specialize fairly early in their training and spend the next 5 or 10 years learning the trade in their sub-area.

More or less:

Hot cathode vacuum based tubes are one area.
Gas filled (power) tubes are a different area
Cold cathode devices are a different area still

Each has it's application. Each has it's own physics. Each has a specific type of manufacturing plant designed to make them. There are indeed many further sub specializations. A tube for an audio pre-amp is a bit different than the output tube in a 100KW transmitter. Both are vacuum tubes with hot cathodes. The guys who design one are not the same as the guys who design the other ones. Same is true of the manufacturing lines.

It might help if we had some idea of what you are trying to do. Tubes get (or got) used in a *lot* of things ....

Bob

[Paul Rose]

If it comes to circuit design with existing tubes/valves (not development of the devices themselves), I've been meaning to look at: 

"Hollow State Design" by Grayson Evans ( ISBN 978-1300965213 )

It is actually a recent book ( 2013 ).

Somewhat oriented toward radio amateurs ( RF and Audio ).

[Stray Electron]

   'Gaseous Conductors' by James D. Cobine, McGraw Hill, 1941.  It's one of those good OLD text books that really teaches you the theory and the practice. But good luck finding a copy. It took three years for me to find one and I had buy someone's entire library to get it!  Despite the slightly misleading title, it goes into the characteristics of fluorescent lights, vacuum and partial vacuums, inert gasses, hydrogen gas (thyratrons), Mercury vapor, etc as well as the nature of the anode and cathode and space charge. Unlike radio tube books that deal with VT amplifiers and the like, this book covers every aspect of electron flow inside of tubes under many different circumstances. They do discuss radio type tubes but that is just one single use.

this sounds like exactly what I am looking for.

I find some of the old texts extremely good, they give you the information in a manner that it is much easier to detect the concept, because it is not obfuscated by too many profitable applications

maybe the old authors were more excited by the stuff too

is this it? http://product.half.ebay.com/Gaseous-Conductors-Theory-and-Engineering-Applications-by-James-D-Cobine-1941-Paperback/48999312&tg=info

    That looks like it. I didn't know that Dover had reprinted it but they have reprinted other classic text books such as the MIT Rad Lab series.