Author Topic: Help verifying a power circuit  (Read 3351 times)

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Offline ZingerTopic starter

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Help verifying a power circuit
« on: April 11, 2017, 11:32:02 pm »
I'm designing a power circuit to control a 12V 4.67A strip of LEDs.  I've come up with something I think will work but I'm a novice at this.  I'd really appreciate it if someone who knows what they're doing would take a look at it.

I've attached the schematic and simulation I did on SystemVision.  Big thanks to everyone who replied to this thread.  https://www.eevblog.com/forum/beginners/easy-to-learn-circuit-simulator/ Your input was invaluable.

The power supply on the left is 12V.  In the real circuit I will use a reed switch to drive the MOSFET's gate. For the simulation, I used a voltage controlled switch and hooked it up to a pulsed 5V.  I couldn't find a simple switch in the parts list.

The resistor on the left is to limit the current going into the reed switch.  There seem to be a million reed switches that can handle 12V and 80mA.

I modeled the MOSFET on a BUZ11 because several sites said it's a popular NPN and it looks cheap on eBay.

I modeled the lamp load on my LED strip.  12V, 4.67A, 56W.  I think the current spike when I first turn on the transistor is because the lamp model has a fairly large inrush current. The LED strip I'm using is a high quality one from HitLights. It's protected so I don't think that will happen in the real circuit.  BTW, Hit has fantastic customer service, as I found out this morning.  https://www.hitlights.com/

Will this thing work?  Is it overkill?  Will it kill someone?  What am I missing?

Thanks
"It's better to ask a stupid question than to make an expensive mistake."
 

Offline ebclr

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Offline ZingerTopic starter

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Re: Help verifying a power circuit
« Reply #2 on: April 12, 2017, 12:06:59 am »
I want to use my 12V to drive the MOSFET.  This part is logic level.  Could I just use a resistor between the 12V and SIG to drop the voltage to logic level?


Then wire the battery to VCC and GND and my switched power comes out the screw terminals?  All for 99¢ plus shipping?

"It's better to ask a stupid question than to make an expensive mistake."
 

Offline RJFreeman

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Re: Help verifying a power circuit
« Reply #3 on: April 12, 2017, 12:40:04 am »
As you are a novice, lets run through some of the things you need to consider, referring to the BUZ911 data sheet at:
https://www.fairchildsemi.com/products/discretes/fets/mosfets/BUZ11.html

have you exceeded the Breakdown Voltage of the mosfet?
No, all good, the BUZ11 can handle 50V

Have you exceeded the Gate Voltage of the mosfet?
No, all good at 12V, the BUZ11 can handle a VGS of 20V

have you exceeded the current handling of the Mosfet?
No, all good at 12V - a BUZ11 can handle 50 Amps

are you driving the Gate hard enough to turn the Mosfet fully on?
Yes, VGS of over 5V should have the Mosfet in saturation at around 5 Amps, and minimum rDS(on) is given as 0.03 ohms at 10V VGS, so 12V is good.

Are you switching the Mosfet on fast enough?
- this is not a major concern in this application, as you are not pushing a BUZ11 anywhere near its limits.
Having said that though, R2, the 100 ohm resistor is going to slow the turn on slightly, due to the 1500 to 2000 pF input capacitance.
Likewise it will be slow to turn off, as the Gate discharges via R1
This would be a concern if/when you are pushing a Mosfet to its limits as you want the Mosfet to switch on and off as quickly as possible, so it does not spend too much time 'partly on' which is where it gets hot....

Have you exceeded the safe operating area of the Mosfet?
your specified current is 4.67 Amps
worst case VDS should be about 0.04 x 4.67 = 0.187 Volts  (where VDS=rDS(on) x Current )
- That is well in the Safe operating area of the BUZ11 shown in Figure 4 of the Data sheet.

 
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Offline RJFreeman

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Re: Help verifying a power circuit
« Reply #4 on: April 12, 2017, 12:46:51 am »
I want to use my 12V to drive the MOSFET.  This part is logic level.  Could I just use a resistor between the 12V and SIG to drop the voltage to logic level?


Probably not needed, as most Mosfets will handle at least 12V VGS, but just for the sake of the exercise, the picture of that module shows the Mosfet as an IRF520N.
We can find the Data sheet for the IRF520N here:

http://www.infineon.com/cms/en/product/power/mosfet/20v-300v-n-channel-power-mosfet/80v-100v-n-channel-power-mosfet/IRF520N/productType.html?productType=5546d462533600a401533d2b9de87385

So, does 12V exceed the maximum VGS for an IRF520N?
 

Offline ZingerTopic starter

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Re: Help verifying a power circuit
« Reply #5 on: April 12, 2017, 12:51:04 am »
Datasheet says ±20V so I'd be good at 12V.

Thanks!
"It's better to ask a stupid question than to make an expensive mistake."
 
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Offline RJFreeman

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Re: Help verifying a power circuit
« Reply #6 on: April 12, 2017, 12:54:42 am »
Datasheet says ±20V so I'd be good at 12V.

Yep, should all be good.

Quote
Thanks!

no worries  :)
 

Offline ZingerTopic starter

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Re: Help verifying a power circuit
« Reply #7 on: April 12, 2017, 12:58:22 am »
Thanks again.  This is a great reply. Exactly the level of detail I need at this point in my "career".
"It's better to ask a stupid question than to make an expensive mistake."
 
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Offline RJFreeman

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Re: Help verifying a power circuit
« Reply #8 on: April 13, 2017, 01:17:47 am »
This is a good starter to understanding Mosfet Parameters:

http://www.newelectronics.co.uk/electronics-technology/making-sense-of-mosfet-datasheets/48782/

although the pictures/diagrams do not load from the web-page for me, but if you scroll down to near the bottom, you can download a PDF version which does include all the diagrams.
Look out for :

Related Downloads
48782\P23-24.pdf

*Comment on this article

While this document looks like (I haven't finished reading through it) it goes into a bit more detail:

http://www.infineon.com/dgdl/mosfet.pdf?fileId=5546d462533600a4015357444e913f4f

 

Offline Audioguru

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Re: Help verifying a power circuit
« Reply #9 on: April 13, 2017, 02:40:17 am »
Why do you think the IRF520 Mosfet is logic level? It is not. An IRL520 Mosfet is logic level. See the "L"?
When you buy cheap stuff from ebay then the Mosfet might not meet its specs, be fake or be defective. It also might be used and near the end of its life.
 

Offline exoticelectron

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Re: Help verifying a power circuit
« Reply #10 on: April 13, 2017, 08:46:09 pm »
Why do you think the IRF520 Mosfet is logic level? It is not. An IRL520 Mosfet is logic level. See the "L"?
When you buy cheap stuff from ebay then the Mosfet might not meet its specs, be fake or be defective. It also might be used and near the end of its life.

Seriously..there needs to be a sticky telling beginners where to get parts. Its not 1993 anymore. Order your parts where everybody else gets them for  prototyping, digikey and mouser. USPS shipping for small stuff is $4 and saturday delivery is free. Stop wasting time getting unknown stuff from ebay.

Unless you arent in USA and in that case good luck

 

Online Zero999

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Re: Help verifying a power circuit
« Reply #11 on: April 13, 2017, 10:35:32 pm »
Why do you think the IRF520 Mosfet is logic level? It is not. An IRL520 Mosfet is logic level. See the "L"?
When you buy cheap stuff from ebay then the Mosfet might not meet its specs, be fake or be defective. It also might be used and near the end of its life.

Seriously..there needs to be a sticky telling beginners where to get parts. Its not 1993 anymore. Order your parts where everybody else gets them for  prototyping, digikey and mouser. USPS shipping for small stuff is $4 and saturday delivery is free. Stop wasting time getting unknown stuff from ebay.

Unless you arent in USA and in that case good luck
What the heck? For those not in the U$ there's Farnel, RS Components, Rapid Electronics, etc.
 
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Offline exoticelectron

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Re: Help verifying a power circuit
« Reply #12 on: April 13, 2017, 10:37:30 pm »
Why do you think the IRF520 Mosfet is logic level? It is not. An IRL520 Mosfet is logic level. See the "L"?
When you buy cheap stuff from ebay then the Mosfet might not meet its specs, be fake or be defective. It also might be used and near the end of its life.

Seriously..there needs to be a sticky telling beginners where to get parts. Its not 1993 anymore. Order your parts where everybody else gets them for  prototyping, digikey and mouser. USPS shipping for small stuff is $4 and saturday delivery is free. Stop wasting time getting unknown stuff from ebay.

Unless you arent in USA and in that case good luck
What the heck? For those not in the U$ there's Farnel, RS Components, Rapid Electronics, etc.

I thought with Brexit that all British business stopped and its like stone age over there with people eating each other....no?
 

Offline janoc

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Re: Help verifying a power circuit
« Reply #13 on: April 13, 2017, 11:06:13 pm »
What the heck? For those not in the U$ there's Farnel, RS Components, Rapid Electronics, etc.

Well, here in France RS charges 10€ s&h, Farnell 20€, Digikey the same + VAT + customs handling thanks to UPS doing the customs for them, Mouser also charges 20€ s&h unless you buy for at least 50-60€.

That MOSFET gets quite a bit expensive in such case :(

Still wondering why are people buying crap from AliExpress, eBay and similar sources? Consider yourself lucky if you don't have to deal with the above in UK.

RS here is actually the cheapest and has free s&h if you manage to time your order on a weekend. On the other hand, their website is probably by far the most unusable and they don't stock many things that Farnell or Mouser have :(

And it isn't that long time ago where the likes of RS, Farnell or Mouser didn't even sell to private persons at all, because they didn't want to bother with charging VAT and dealing with small orders here.
« Last Edit: April 13, 2017, 11:07:44 pm by janoc »
 

Offline ZingerTopic starter

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Re: Help verifying a power circuit
« Reply #14 on: April 21, 2017, 09:53:40 pm »
Why do you think the IRF520 Mosfet is logic level? It is not. An IRL520 Mosfet is logic level. See the "L"?
When you buy cheap stuff from ebay then the Mosfet might not meet its specs, be fake or be defective. It also might be used and near the end of its life.

Seriously..there needs to be a sticky telling beginners where to get parts. Its not 1993 anymore. Order your parts where everybody else gets them for  prototyping, digikey and mouser. USPS shipping for small stuff is $4 and saturday delivery is free. Stop wasting time getting unknown stuff from ebay.

Unless you arent in USA and in that case good luck

EE - Thanks for the pointer to Digi-key.  Great web site.  Much better than scrounging around on eBay.  I got my components and am ready to wire the circuit.

Of course, today is the day the lead decided to fall off my 20 year old DMM's negative probe. And, of course, today I was already at the hobby store, a Home Depot and one of the last Radio Shacks in Virginia. Could have got a new one cheap, if I'd known it was going to happen.  >:(
« Last Edit: April 21, 2017, 10:11:12 pm by Zinger »
"It's better to ask a stupid question than to make an expensive mistake."
 

Offline ZingerTopic starter

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Re: Help verifying a power circuit
« Reply #15 on: April 22, 2017, 02:00:09 pm »
Thanks everyone for your pointers and advice.  I breadboarded the circuit this morning and it works perfectly.

I'll solder and shrinkwrap it this afternoon and then start the next part of this project.

Thanks again.
"It's better to ask a stupid question than to make an expensive mistake."
 


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