How difficult it is for hobbyist to work with SMD packages?

[CatalinaWOW]

You can do much the same things you do with perfboard on a regular array of footprints.  You do have to put jumpers between pads instead of just bending leads over, but that's not too big a deal.  But now that layout tools and boards are so easy and fast to use the times when such things are the way to go are getting thin on the ground.

[dannyf]

It depends on what kind of smd you are talking about. SOIC, LQFP, SOT and TSSOP are no problem. 1206 is easy. 0805 is doable.

On the flip side, QFN, BGA, or 0402 are way beyond my capabilities,

[Aodhan145]

Blutack and a bit of time you can solder most of the reasonably sized packages. It can be frustrating at times. packages like sop soic etc. Are easy everything down to and including 0805 I would say are easy enough and I have the most shaky hands ever. A hot air gun is really helpful for packages like qfn they are doable.

[bson]

Nah, as hobbyists we are forced to SMD, we have no options.
Learn SMD and the tricks that go with it or get another hobby.

It isn't hard, even for this old fart.

I agree with the above.  In fact, once past the initial learning curve SMD is great: you can warehouse a bazillion different parts in a trivial amount of space; they're MUCH cheaper; the boards are MUCH smaller and hence cheaper and easier to make; they work better due to the shortened distances and MUCH smaller parasitics; they're easier to lay out because the boards aren't full of pin holes.

[Buriedcode]

The real problem with SMD for hobbyists is that you can't just grab a piece of perf board and go to work.

You need a PCB before you can even think of soldering any parts.

Well you can use 0805 passives on stripboard..  I've done that, but with dip IC's.  Sadly, perfboard/stripboard just looks so dated now.  I no longer show people prototypes if they've used stripboard, even if they're fully functional, because, well, if anyone see's it, just looks shit :/

[Pjotr]

The real problem with SMD for hobbyists is that you can't just grab a piece of perf board and go to work.

You need a PCB before you can even think of soldering any parts.

Actually EE's are supposed to be creative 

But as said, nowadays PCB cost is that low and turnaround times short, it isn't worth the effort mostly. Although is lacks the freedom to poke around easily.

[FrankBuss]

But as said, nowadays PCB cost is that low and turnaround times short, it isn't worth the effort mostly. Although is lacks the freedom to poke around easily.

This depends on how you design your board. You don't need to poke around if you connect a 16 bit address bus from a CPU to a RAM, but when I do something new, I place solder pin headers all over the board at interesting signals.

SMD test points

Good idea, needs less space than test pin headers and really nice for scope probes, or logic analyzer probes. Do you have a Digikey part number for that?

[tautech]

SMD test points

Good idea, needs less space than test pin headers and really nice for scope probes, or logic analyzer probes. Do you have a Digikey part number for that?

Frank, here's the page I borrowed the SMD test points image from:
http://www.digikey.com/en/product-highlight/k/keystone/surface-mount-test-points

This style was the most cost effective when I looked hard a few years back, there are nicer little "ball on a post" styles that have a clip-on lead, gorgeous they are....price too. 



For the above I just used a standard low density Altium 0805 footprint(extended pads), (been too lazy to make a solid one)so DRC's show broken nets so remember if using these to make a solid footprint or be sure to assign the same net to both pads.

Rob

[FrankBuss]

Frank, here's the page I borrowed the SMD test points image from:
http://www.digikey.com/en/product-highlight/k/keystone/surface-mount-test-points

This style was the most cost effective when I looked hard a few years back, there are nicer little "ball on a post" styles that have a clip-on lead, gorgeous they are....price too. 

Thanks, looks nice. A bit pricier than my current solution (through hole test points, and then soldering some silver wire to it, which you can get for a cent per cm), but this doesn't matter for prototypes.

[tautech]

Frank, here's the page I borrowed the SMD test points image from:
http://www.digikey.com/en/product-highlight/k/keystone/surface-mount-test-points

This style was the most cost effective when I looked hard a few years back, there are nicer little "ball on a post" styles that have a clip-on lead, gorgeous they are....price too. 

Thanks, looks nice. A bit pricier than my current solution (through hole test points, and then soldering some silver wire to it, which you can get for a cent per cm), but this doesn't matter for prototypes.

Sure, but time to drill for TH and soldering too costs money also, these SMD test points are a quick and elegant solution for PCB test connection.

[FrankBuss]

Usually I use Iteadstudio, and once I created this board and ordered it from them:

Was the same standard price for the required size (their "small batch" offer, because I re-sold lots of it to some C64 fans).

[hendorog]

I think soldering SMD parts and producing a good result using an iron is reasonably difficult to people who don't have experience.
The main problem I find is that you need 3 hands - one for the iron, one for the solder and one to hold the part down - Skill-wise I'm probably in your target market

So instead of that you could instead go this way:
https://www.sparkfun.com/tutorials/59
Solder paste in a syringe and stencils are cheap, it produces great results so why use an iron?

That method should produce a much better result - with less skills - than hand soldering smd parts would. I haven't tried it myself as I have a cheap hot air unit. I expect the results would be pretty similar though.
As an smd novice I find the hot air method way better than hand soldering.

Also here are a couple of tricks I found on the net which were useful to me - perhaps you could include a tips sheet in the kit?

* Make ghetto smd soldering tweezers by wrapping 1.5mm wire around the soldering iron tip 
Like this, but arrange the wire so that the iron is one side of the tweezer and the wire is the other side:
http://www.instructables.com/id/Making-a-fine-tip-for-your-solding-iron-for-SMD-so/

* Lift caps and resistors by putting a small solder 'ball' on the iron and heating both ends at the same time - the part comes off instantly and lifts off with the iron in the solder ball. I only learned this yesterday and it works great.
https://youtu.be/XW9aEkToX8w?t=80

[tautech]

I think soldering SMD parts and producing a good result using an iron is reasonably difficult to people who don't have experience.
The main problem I find is that you need 3 hands - one for the iron, one for the solder and one to hold the part down -

It's not at all that difficult, just tin one pad with solder and hold component on it while applying heat with an iron, then solder any remainin pad/s.

Those that drag hand solder IC's use this method to tack the IC in place before drag soldering.

[hendorog]

I think soldering SMD parts and producing a good result using an iron is reasonably difficult to people who don't have experience.
The main problem I find is that you need 3 hands - one for the iron, one for the solder and one to hold the part down -

It's not at all that difficult, just tin one pad with solder and hold component on it while applying heat with an iron, then solder any remainin pad/s.

Those that drag hand solder IC's use this method to tack the IC in place before drag soldering.

Yep understood, but that is harder to do and produces a worse result that using solder paste and hot air. I just got my first smd pcb back and I was amazed at how easy it was to get a good result using solder paste and hot air. Conversely with a soldering iron the results look amateur in comparison.

So replace the hot air with a cheap skillet and anyone should be able to do it. Actually I'm tempted to test that theory...

[bson]

when I do something new, I place solder pin headers all over the board at interesting signals.

I usually just drop in round 1.2mm pads inline with traces to put a probe to.  I also make sure I have a ground TP nearby, within 3-8mm.  A via centered in the ground TP keeps the ground pin from sliding.  One ground TP can be used for a whole bunch of signal TPs.  But, yeah, this requires holding the probe in place; but it also works very well for RF signals and fast transitions, to check for overshoot with a < 1pF FET probe, or RIS sample for an eye diagram or such.

[bson]

Sure, but time to drill for TH and soldering too costs money also, these SMD test points are a quick and elegant solution for PCB test connection.

Those do look really nice for low-speed signals, maybe even SPI at higher rates and USB FS perhaps.  I think I'm going to start using something like that; not a bad idea at all!

[tggzzz]

I think soldering SMD parts and producing a good result using an iron is reasonably difficult to people who don't have experience.
The main problem I find is that you need 3 hands - one for the iron, one for the solder and one to hold the part down - Skill-wise I'm probably in your target market

The liquid flux in solder paste is sufficient to hold components in place by surface tension. But don't jog the board before soldering or while the solder is still  liquid

So instead of that you could instead go this way:
https://www.sparkfun.com/tutorials/59
Solder paste in a syringe and stencils are cheap, it produces great results so why use an iron?

Before investing in something something complex like that, try a saucepan with a thin layer of sand in the bottom. Cheap and, for me, 100% effective.

No need to bother with a stencil, but you do need a solder mask on the PCB. Apply the paste with a small point (e.g. jewellers' screwdriver) individually to each pad.

Your other points are sound.

[tggzzz]

So replace the hot air with a cheap skillet and anyone should be able to do it. Actually I'm tempted to test that theory...

I did, and it works very nicely.
See https://entertaininghacks.wordpress.com/2015/03/25/assembling-pcbs-with-surface-mount-components/
and the linked pages, plus reference material at
https://entertaininghacks.wordpress.com/library-2/homebrew-pcb-reference-material/

[tggzzz]

when I do something new, I place solder pin headers all over the board at interesting signals.

I also make sure I have a ground TP nearby, within 3-8mm. 

Which is, of course, easy with manhattan/deadbug techniques on an unetched board.

But, yeah, this requires holding the probe in place; but it also works very well for RF signals and fast transitions, to check for overshoot with a < 1pF FET probe, or RIS sample for an eye diagram or such.

Or use a cheap simple robusr low impedance Z0 probe, e.g. a 1.5GHz HP10020A with tip capacitance <0.7pF. Others reach 6.5GHz. Homebrew ones get reach 1GHz, see references at https://entertaininghacks.wordpress.com/scope-probe-reference-material/

[hendorog]

So replace the hot air with a cheap skillet and anyone should be able to do it. Actually I'm tempted to test that theory...

I did, and it works very nicely.
See https://entertaininghacks.wordpress.com/2015/03/25/assembling-pcbs-with-surface-mount-components/
and the linked pages, plus reference material at
https://entertaininghacks.wordpress.com/library-2/homebrew-pcb-reference-material/

Great write up.

When I said anyone, I actually really meant 'anyone' - e.g. SWMBO. Who has never held a soldering iron before in her life but I think would be capable of the solder paste method as you described.

[technix]

I work with 0603 components, TSSOP and fine-line TQFP fairly regularly. I uses a 936 clone with a wedge tip, and I have 5.3/5.2 vision.

[joeqsmith]

Looks good to me.

Actually EE's are supposed to be creative 

But as said, nowadays PCB cost is that low and turnaround times short, it isn't worth the effort mostly. Although is lacks the freedom to poke around easily.

[bson]

Or use a cheap simple robusr low impedance Z0 probe, e.g. a 1.5GHz HP10020A with tip capacitance <0.7pF. Others reach 6.5GHz. Homebrew ones get reach 1GHz, see references at https://entertaininghacks.wordpress.com/scope-probe-reference-material/

I'd be a little careful with 500ohm Z0 probes; they're not the panacea they're often made out to be in this forum.  The fundamental problem is they tell you what the signal looks like when driving a 500ohm load, not the actual load in the circuit.  An LVC signal can look incredibly clean, but the actual input isn't 500ohm; in fact the input impedance of LVC logic varies with voltage due to its complementary nature.  A Z0 probe isn't necessarily a good option for a signal between two endpoints where it can't easily be characterized as a transmission line.  LVC overshoot happens because the input impedance skyrockets as the voltage goes up, but the actual charges involved may be small and can just vanish against a 500ohm load.  For uses like eliminating digital-section noise in a mixed-signal circuit, a high-impedance active probe really is a key tool.

[tggzzz]

Or use a cheap simple robusr low impedance Z0 probe, e.g. a 1.5GHz HP10020A with tip capacitance <0.7pF. Others reach 6.5GHz. Homebrew ones get reach 1GHz, see references at https://entertaininghacks.wordpress.com/scope-probe-reference-material/

I'd be a little careful with 500ohm Z0 probes; they're not the panacea they're often made out to be in this forum.  The fundamental problem is they tell you what the signal looks like when driving a 500ohm load, not the actual load in the circuit.  An LVC signal can look incredibly clean, but the actual input isn't 500ohm; in fact the input impedance of LVC logic varies with voltage due to its complementary nature.  A Z0 probe isn't necessarily a good option for a signal between two endpoints where it can't easily be characterized as a transmission line.  LVC overshoot happens because the input impedance skyrockets as the voltage goes up, but the actual charges involved may be small and can just vanish against a 500ohm load.  For uses like eliminating digital-section noise in a mixed-signal circuit, a high-impedance active probe really is a key tool.

Nothing is a panacea of course! But basically I agree.

Don't forget they don't have to be 500ohm;  I have 1k and 5k variants with the obvious gains.