Magnet therapy device teardown

[diodenschein]

Hi,

I have the chance to poke around in an electronic magnet therapy device.
Which breaks precisely after 300 therapies and has to get service ;-)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnet_therapy

I'll try to make a Video out of it.

Any suggestions what you would like to see?

[Richard Crowley]

Hard to say when we don't have the slightest clue what it is?   

[diodenschein]

Fair enough.

Basically it's a quite large control panel to which you connect a mat with magnetic coils.
These apply "changing fields in good frequencies" to hurting areas.
It's used by alternative practioners.
If you ask me it's bogus. But it has lots of leds and buttons!

[CatalinaWOW]

What a surprise.  A scam therapy device has a scam breakdown feature.  It's a twofer.

[ruffy91]

Scammers get scammed. Nothing wrong with that.

[lapm]

Would not suprise me if "maintenance" was nothing more then powering it up while jumper is shorted to reset counter in controller...

[lapm]

Any suggestions what you would like to see?

The usual, electronics if there is any, quality of pcb work, theory how its generates these changing magnetic frequencies... Just because is scam device, docent mean you cant do good tear down of it...

[digsys]

What's the make and manufacturer? Do you know?
I spent a few years, on contract, designing magnetic therapy and ultrasound units for sports professions, horse and dog training.
That was MANY years ago, but the company still sells quite a few. Nearly ALL of the users, well in the 1000s, swear by them, so I don't just dismiss it as fake.
The company DID run extensive documented lab tests for a long time, and even though there were very positive results, we didn't have good enough test equipment
or sample size / time required to publish. I spent a LOT of effort on frequency, wave-shape and polarity tests on biological samples. The most promising results
were with ultrasound treatment applied first, and then followed by mag therapy. And YES, there were "shonky" players in the game, and that seriously diluted
perceptions of the therapy. The greatest success was with bone fractures, increasing healing time markedly.
I also studied biochem / pharmacology / organic chem in the early 70s, and even back then, we often ran interesting experiments on magnetic effects on cells / tissue etc
back when there weren't many rules :-)  ahh memories

[diodenschein]

The device is a ENZYMED MMFSG-5000 from a German manufacturer.
I'll addd the Catalog/Datasheet at the end. (Sorry only found a German version, ask If you want anything translated)

It's done I made a lot of measurements, photos and a video, I'll post them tomorrow morning.  Overall it's designed quite nicely and actually does what's promised in the Datasheet:

The programs work with a sawtooth pulse, which was provided as a special feature to stimulus enhancement with a special dynamic, in an ever-changing pulse-pause ratio; the polarity (north pole / south pole) changes every 2 minutes.

@digsys

The greatest success was with bone fractures, increasing healing time markedly.

But didn't they implant coils and induce real currents through the fracture?
Do you remember what typical field strengths were?


This device is just a single winding coil you apply externally.
Btw. I also found a pricelist.

 http://www.akku-partner.com/WebRoot/Sage/Shops/AJMedizintechnikGmbH43798224/4F94/1DCF/903E/3BA7/EBC1/0A0C/05EA/AF2C/Geraetetechnik_ENZYMED_professional.pdf

[digsys]

The device is a ENZYMED MMFSG-5000 from a German manufacturer.
I'll addd the Catalog/Datasheet at the end. (Sorry only found a German version, ask If you want anything translated) 

No problem, google translate to the rescue :-) I really only knew OZ manufacturers, and a few o/seas ones, this was 25+ yrs ago !
That one is definitely very low power, probably good for limbs and bruises. Their speil "looks" ok :-), but many manufacturers back then would just copy others,
that they knew had done research and just added 1 to the specs !! :-) Not saying this is the case here at all.

But didn't they implant coils and induce real currents through the fracture?
Do you remember what typical field strengths were? ...
... This device is just a single winding coil you apply externally.

You're stretching my memory here, but numbers in the order of 10-20A pulsed at 20VDC ring a bell. But then our blankets were quite huge, especially for horses,
with approx 10-20 turns, depending on "depth" required. The BIG difference between these and "implanting coils" is -
You can train any yoyo to use it, in seconds. We even had pre-programmed settings - just push a button. Fast to set up and use, practically anywhere.
Like I said, an engineer I trained way back then still manufactures them, but if I rang to get details, I'd likely be stuck with helping in a new design :-)
You can estimate the gauss by those figures I gave.

[Richard Crowley]

Hard to say when we don't have the slightest clue what it is?   

we do, it is a magnet, or electromagnetism generator, that you put on your skin or belly to make a therapy, so thats what they said, we have not much clue of what precisely every component is but what we are certain is what it did... it did nothing, or at least a placebo generator, or just a magnetic "therapy" by the lip.

Those magnetic "therapy" things range from finger rings and bandages with permanent magnets, up to big active electronic devices.
@diodenschein initially gave no indication what he was talking about in a broad range of possibilities.

[diodenschein]

Hi,

I did some Pictures and measurements of the

ENZYMED MMFSG-5000 Professional

What I can say is It actually generates a signal via DDS and connects that via a relay matrix to the different Applicators.
In this case I only had the small mat wich only has to pins on the DB9 connected.
That coil measures 3Ohm and according to the manual is 100µT max.
The Wallplug is 15V, 1A.
I tried to dump the firmware but it's protected.


Prices:
MMFSG-5000 1400€
Applicator 250€
Power supply! 60€

[Bud]

It is not using 0.9% isotonic water solution, and as such is a fake. Here is a link to a company who makes real stuff

http://www.logoarena.com/logo-contests/alternum-n6175

You cant beat "extraterrestrial technology."
 

[diodenschein]

This is P3 "Fitness" measured at the DB9 connector.

[digsys]

The electronics is a lot "fancier" than our days :-) and it sure is a HECK of a lot lower power than our units .. I wouldn't think it would have much effect in most cases.
Our blankets / wraps (intentionally) got warm, which helped in the treatment. And before the next clueless comments appear - yes cooling down is better for reducing
inflammation etc, but the aim here is to stimulate electrical activity via alternating / varying magnetic field. And like ALL "medicines", there is a varying degree of effectiveness.
The waveforms are similar to ours, even 25+ yrs later, it's a balance of #pulses / reversals / and allowing "rest" periods, so as not to trigger "defences".
Interesting tear-down, thanks - just ignore the expert internet warriors, who are here to save us :-)

PS: Our biggest market were racing dogs and horses, where the placebo effect didn't really apply :-)

[Delta]

The electronics is a lot "fancier" than our days :-) and it sure is a HECK of a lot lower power than our units .. I wouldn't think it would have much effect in most cases.

...............

PS: Our biggest market were racing dogs and horses, where the placebo effect didn't really apply :-)

It won't have any effect in any cases.  It's woo.  Bollocks.

The placebo effect very much applies to animals, many intersting studies have been carried out...

https://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/is-there-a-placebo-effect-for-animals/

[Marco]

If the field gets strong enough you can speed up and slow down capillary blood flow by quite impressive numbers, it's not inconceivable that the extra pumping action could help bloodflow near injuries (on the other hand it's not inconceivable it could cause problems either). I think you can speed up arterial flow significantly too if the field lines are parallel, but hard to see how that would help much.

[BurningTantalum]

BUT- the manufacturer still had to construct this guff:

Alternum is a morphogenetic field based energy medicine device made 100% in the U.S., utilizing state-of-the-art proprietary vortex-based technology based upon the vortex-based mathematics of Marko Rodin and research from P.E.A.R. (Princeton Engineering Anomalies Research). Alternum scans the morphogenetic (form-holding) energy fields surrounding every cell in the body; it can pinpoint any imbalances and disturbances within the client and program the balancing, scalar energy information into the 0.9% isotonic water solution thereby delivering the balancing information to the client’s immune system. Alternum also creates a personalized EMF protection bracelet/pendant that protects the client from electrosmog and geopathic stress.

-to try to market it. Even a horse wouldn't believe that load of horse sh!t.

[pga123]

I first used one of these devices in a cancer clinic in Germany. After my visit to the clinic I purchased one and used it regularly. After six months' use the cancer on my pelvic bone disappeared totally. It is very effective in increasing the flow of oxygen into cells and CO2 out of them.

I have used it about 3 times a day for over a year, over 1000 times with no issues whatever. The units at the clinic get used 10 times a day and have done for years.

Please be sure you know what you're talking about before slamming an honest company with a quality product that does what it says.

[diodenschein]

Hi pga123,

good to hear your cancer disappeared totally. Can you tell more details which Applicator you used?

How do you know "It is very effective in increasing the flow of oxygen into cells and CO2 out of them." did you measure that somehow?

And the question ist's if it helped you or not. It's if it generally helps or doesn't, you can never prove it was the reason your cancer went away, because you don't know how it would have ended without the device. For me I assume it would have ended the same way.

Thank you and be well.

[MK14]

I'm not convinced by the last couple of posts (pga123 and diodenschein).
Even if it was true (which I'm not convinced about). There is nothing to scientifically indicate that the suspect device had anything to do with it.
Maybe the doctors succeeded and/or the medicines worked and/or it went away on its own accord.

pga123 could be connected to diodenschein, for all I know.

[Simon]

I first used one of these devices in a cancer clinic in Germany. After my visit to the clinic I purchased one and used it regularly. After six months' use the cancer on my pelvic bone disappeared totally. It is very effective in increasing the flow of oxygen into cells and CO2 out of them.

I have used it about 3 times a day for over a year, over 1000 times with no issues whatever. The units at the clinic get used 10 times a day and have done for years.

Please be sure you know what you're talking about before slamming an honest company with a quality product that does what it says.

Says the guy linked to an Internet marketing consulting company.

I myself am a use of a device called the Skenar and these are no joke. But as others have said there are plenty of scams out there. In fact the company that originally sold us our Skenar also sold fake products because they were none the wiser like a program called computer clear which apparently created healthy electromagnetic waves to counteract those emitted by your computer monitor back in the CRT days. I contact them asking for an explanation and putting forward my views on how the program could or couldn't work and they said that due to the technicalities of my questions there would have to ask the manufacturer who failed to respond. Clearly a placebo product. An icon in your taskbar and you think you are protected.

[CJay]

Two newbie posters, one exceptionally positive about a therapy method that's often exploited by scammers and 'woo' merchants, the other 'tearing down' a product, hmm...

Should this be moved to the snake oil thread?

[Buriedcode]

I myself am a use of a device called the Skenar and these are no joke.

Not sure if trolling or...

http://www.synergy-health.co.uk/skenar-therapy/skenar-therapy/

Looks like a joke to me..

[Simon]

I myself am a use of a device called the Skenar and these are no joke.

Not sure if trolling or...

http://www.synergy-health.co.uk/skenar-therapy/skenar-therapy/

Looks like a joke to me..

A moderator trolling, surely not? Yes that is the same device being referred to however that is probably the website of a practitioner. As these things are completely unregulated you can buy it from a perfectly reputable company and do as you please with it.

But I can assure you that the Skenar is a serious device, I personally have used one for years and other family members have as well. It was originally developed for veterinary use and knowing this I did in fact try it out on our dog that was dying of an infection. Unfortunately because I was very busy with work and did not realise how bad he was I started treatment too late and he was not eating or drinking. But when I did treat him he actually got up and started to drink a little bit and was more active. Sadly he died though and if only I had started treating him earlier.

I have used it to alleviate muscle pain around my eyes due to eyestrain, my grandmother use it for many years and way outlived doctors expectations and I have used in the past also to treat cracks in my skin which I would get in the winter and would never go away due to the cold and damp. Granted there is always an element of placebo with any form of medical device or medication but this device goes somewhat beyond placebo. It is also fair to say that if you were treated with this device and decided that it would not work chances are it probably would not as it stimulates your immune system and it is your brain that controls your immune system. Needless to say with or without the device I generally fair quite well with things like colds and flu even though I don't have the yearly flu jab because I expect my immune system to look after me.