Author Topic: Measuring standby power  (Read 28985 times)

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Offline The Electrician

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Re: Measuring standby power
« Reply #25 on: March 28, 2014, 02:07:38 pm »
Many Kill-a-Watt types are just an ammeter assuming a P.F. of 1, but the actual Kill-a-Watt brand model that I have truly measures wattage on inductive loads. I cannot say how accurate it is on non linear loads like switching power supplies or other high harmonic developing equipment.

You can get an idea of how accurate it is by looking at post #9 in this thread.
 

Offline NiHaoMike

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Re: Measuring standby power
« Reply #26 on: March 28, 2014, 05:06:32 pm »
Another trick for switching supplies is to use a DC supply at the peak voltage of the mains (170V DC for 120V AC, 340V DC for 240V AC, both easily done with a bridge rectifier and isolation transformer) and some multimeters. Note that switchers with voltage doublers need to be supplied with 340V on the bus.

You can also measure the voltage drop across the current sense resistor in some topologies, along with the DC bus voltage, then add in the power used by startup or bus sense resistors if there are any.
« Last Edit: March 28, 2014, 05:10:17 pm by NiHaoMike »
Cryptocurrency has taught me to love math and at the same time be baffled by it.

Cryptocurrency lesson 0: Altcoins and Bitcoin are not the same thing.
 

Offline djacobow

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Re: Measuring standby power
« Reply #27 on: March 29, 2014, 12:51:19 am »

I tried the modification on my Kill-A-Watt this afternoon. I don't really have the right setup to accurately assess the results, but they look promising-ish.

However, there are some caveats I learned.

For one, not all Kill-A-Watts are the same even if they look the same on the outside. I assumed that mine would be like The Electrician's, but actually, my two KAWs are quite different from each other, and different from his.

First, one of them is obviously highly cost reduced. It has single sided boards, just cheaper construction all around. I didn't even bother to measure the shunt because I didn't have a 4-wire setup that could do it properly, so I just removed it and put in the 0.2 ohm wire resistor I had bought. Result was that the meter read approximately 2x what it used to. Deduction: the shunt was not 0.002 ohm, but 0.1 ohm. Also, in the process of removing the shunt with my underpowered iron, I used brute force, and actually delaminated the trace around one side of the shunt. Joy. Anyway, I put it together again and it is about as good as it ever was, plus a ginormous blob of solder. Measures about 5% low all the time, which is what it always did. About half of that is from the voltage error, and half from current, as near as I can tell. Oh well.

Undeterred, I decided to apply the hack to my other KAW. I removed the shunt trying to use a little less brute force this time. There was so much solder on the connection, though, and I didn't want devote my whole roll of desoldering braid to the project, so I pushed pretty hard again. Similar delamination result, but less severe this time. Anyway, got the new resistor in there, and now the meter appears to read about 55x what it used to. More deduction: That old shunt wasn't 0.002 ohm, but 3.6 mohm or thereabouts.

Which leaves you wondering if they just grab any old piece of wire, shove it in there, and then trim as necessary. Sadly, the trimming must be done by flashing some register, since there are no pots in these devices at all.

Anyway, I have limited gear to calibrate. I used a Fluke  87V, a variac, and a 43W incandescent bulb to calibrate the current at various settings. It was very linear with respect to the ammeter, so I feel pretty good about the current measurement, at least for a sinusoidal signal. The variac introduces some inductance, so I got a none unity pf, but with a more or less constant VA addition (so the variac was consuming constant VA but the bulb wasn't) but without a power meter to compare, I have no idea if the unit got that right.

I also tried driving a 47k resistor. This came up as unity power factor (good) and based on the current measurement from the 87V and a mains measurement from same, the power estimate was pretty good (relative to the 55x adjustment). It is a few percent high. Anyway, I have reasonable confidence that this thing basically works correctly for nice loads. Because it uses sampling and multiplication in a DSP I hope there is no reason to think it would not work well for less nice loads.

One more trap for young players:

 - to get a bit more precision out of my 87V, I was using the mA setting. No problem with the static current, but I zapped the fuse with the inrush current turning on the variac. :-( Goddam, it looks like an expensive fuse, too. And I knew that would happen. For some reason I thought that the fuse would not respond so fast. Silly me. Of course it will


OK, I think that's all for now. Overall, I think I'll leave the mod in. Pics attached.

Regards,
Dave J
 

Offline han

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Re: Measuring standby power
« Reply #28 on: March 29, 2014, 01:42:44 am »
Maybe not the best way,
I use 12V to 220V inverter and homemade P/S.
just calculate the Total power consumption before and after. and you get DUT idle power


 

Offline rr100Topic starter

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Re: Measuring standby power
« Reply #29 on: March 29, 2014, 04:56:14 am »
I've been thinking about that, especially that I have a sinus inverter but I don't know how constant is the idle/wasted power.

I didn't think that would be too precise but I guess is time to test with some "nice" loads. In fact I'm using the inverter as isolation transformer right now, as in

bench PS (isolated&tested) -> inverter (should be isolated but did not bother to check)

I also have a low power non-sinus one in case that's somehow better (although the waveform might mess up with the standby device).

Sorry about the fuse, that might be more expensive than the .1W resolution british kill-a-watt recommended above :-(
 

Offline tszaboo

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Re: Measuring standby power
« Reply #30 on: March 29, 2014, 05:40:09 pm »
The chip ADE7953 is used for all the calculations.  There are other energy metering chips that you could use. 
It was only suggested as an example, there are other ICs out there. This one makes it easier, that is handles the oversampling, multiplication, and the accumulator for you, so an 8 bit IC with an RTC one interrupt/counter pin and some digital communication is enough to make the system work.
 

Offline pol098

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Re: Measuring standby power
« Reply #31 on: February 07, 2015, 03:27:19 pm »
If anybody comes to this old thread via a search: I don't know any more than what the Web page says, but I've just seen a not-too-expensive meter, AnTai ATX 9801, which claims 0.0005A - 3A , minimum resolution: 0.0005 A, 0.01 W - 660 W, Accuracy: 0.01w, input voltage: 85 V - 265 V, display resolution appears to be 1mW. It has a "universal" socket on the body, for any country, and the plug is on a cable, not fixed to the body, so it should work anywhere with AC mains. Price £42.45 including carriage (but probably plus import tax).

eBay: "0.01-660W Electric Power Energy Monitor Tester Socket Watt Meter Analyzer 9801 K"
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/0-01-660W-Electric-Power-Energy-Monitor-Tester-Socket-Watt-Meter-Analyzer-9801-K-/141565459690

CCI Power-Mate of Australia make meters PM10A,PM15A,PM10AHD,PM10AHDS which seem to have suitable low-power capability, at a higher price and probably with Australian connectors and for 200-240Vac.

HTH
 

Offline djacobow

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Re: Measuring standby power
« Reply #32 on: February 07, 2015, 06:01:14 pm »

That does not look like a quality instrument, but for the price, it's a pretty low risk investment. could make an interesting teardown at least, to see just how cheap they went inside. I'm still looking for a nice power meter, that can handle high crest factors and has good accuracy at low levels current, and which is in the mid 3-figure range, with commensurate construction quality.
 

Offline rr100Topic starter

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Re: Measuring standby power
« Reply #33 on: February 07, 2015, 07:00:33 pm »
Certainly looks tempting even if it is impossible to tell what would that thing actually measure :-)
 

Offline quarks

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Re: Measuring standby power
« Reply #34 on: February 07, 2015, 07:43:16 pm »
Now let's see where to find a cheap "kill-a-watt" clone (I'm in Europe so I'll have to settle for something else and see for myself how it works).

Unfortunately I have not seen this thread until now. Otherwise I would not have opened this

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/projects/standby-power-measurement/msg594715/#msg594715

I have quite a few Power/Energy meters (from low cost to reference).
If you are in Europe using 230VAC I recommend you should have a look at ELV Energy Master and Conrad/Voltcraft Energy Monitor 3000, if resolution 0.1 Watt is enough. If you need more resolution, have a look at ELV EA8000. I have all of them and they are probably the best "cheap" meters you can buy. The ELV meters are about 1% accurate. That is a bit better than the Voltcraft.  I personally prefer the tripple display of the Monitor 3000 compared to the ELV displays.

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/yokogawa-cw-10/msg397795/#msg397795
« Last Edit: February 07, 2015, 08:10:48 pm by quarks »
 

Offline djacobow

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Re: Measuring standby power
« Reply #35 on: February 18, 2015, 04:32:28 am »
 


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