Author Topic: My arduino powered firework sequencer. This is gonna be a blast.  (Read 15930 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline floobydust

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 7000
  • Country: ca
Re: My arduino powered firework sequencer. This is gonna be a blast.
« Reply #25 on: July 02, 2017, 11:33:38 pm »
I don't see 12V at 9.32A happening through those long DB-9 cables? They're like 22AWG for 50 ft X2 for return, so 1.6 ohms?
Roughly 17% less current, 31% less power.

« Last Edit: July 02, 2017, 11:36:16 pm by floobydust »
 

Offline T3sl4co1l

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 21686
  • Country: us
  • Expert, Analog Electronics, PCB Layout, EMC
    • Seven Transistor Labs
Re: My arduino powered firework sequencer. This is gonna be a blast.
« Reply #26 on: July 02, 2017, 11:37:05 pm »
I don't see 12V at 9.32A happening through those long DB-9 cables? They're like 22AWG for 50 ft X2 for return, so 1.6 ohms?
Roughly 17% less current, 31% less power.

Into a ~1 ohm igniter, that's plenty. 8)

Tim
Seven Transistor Labs, LLC
Electronic design, from concept to prototype.
Bringing a project to life?  Send me a message!
 

Offline splin

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 999
  • Country: gb
Re: My arduino powered firework sequencer. This is gonna be a blast.
« Reply #27 on: July 03, 2017, 12:34:05 am »
Ummmmm, yeah, all of that explosive material in one place, not good.



Uuuh, how do you think EVERY SHOP stores and displays them?

not a problem unless you're going about smoking next to them.

My local fireworks shop/display company stores its fireworks in a shipping container. About 5 years ago some tea-leafs broke in to steal them - using an angle grinder to cut through the sides.  :wtf: ** In the process they cut half way through the wall of a six inch shell....

I wonder if they realized how close they came to a date with the grim reaper? Perhaps not surprisingly the shop owners were a bit disappointed that they hadn't but the resulting insurance issues would have been a big headache....

** As a colleague of mine said about his nephew who mangaged  to chainsaw himself in the head - "missed his brain by miles".
 

Offline usagiTopic starter

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 391
  • Country: us
Re: My arduino powered firework sequencer. This is gonna be a blast.
« Reply #28 on: July 03, 2017, 01:25:27 am »
because i don't know the exact timing of the individual fireworks, this will be manually operator stepped through the firing sequence, so i can adjust the display according to how fast each firework runs. every step requires several distinct button presses, and there is no auto firing.

sorry to disappoint all you guys hoping for my catastrophic failure  ;D

Offline Ash

  • Regular Contributor
  • *
  • Posts: 161
  • Country: au
Re: My arduino powered firework sequencer. This is gonna be a blast.
« Reply #29 on: July 03, 2017, 02:24:52 am »
Hi Everyone,

Usagi - congratulations - that looks like a great build. How did you make the cases? Is it laser cut plastic or wood?

So, from someone who has owned and operated a legitimate, licensed and insured fireworks company in Australia (Queensland, home of the nanny state), I have a few small bits of feedback from my efforts of building a firing system. This was around the 2000's period. When I did mine, I elected to not use any microprocessor control - it was all switches and relays etc. I'm not saying microcontrollers are bad - just make sure you have appropriate safety switches (see below).

I think you are certainly on the right track. Electrically firing fireworks is much safer then hand firing. It is orders of magnitude better than the "Hold my beer, I'll go light them" approach..  :-DD

Although from the looks of the ones you have, they appear to be what we called "boxed sets" - you light the fuse and it does its own "mini-display". These are normally not that "large" in terms of total powder loads etc. The really dangerous items are shells that you need a "tube" or cannon to launch. These WILL and HAVE taken off heads and limbs of unfortunate people placing them over the launch tube while loading or when they accidentally ignited. Also, if you do have shells - DO NOT USE PVC pipe as launch tubes (even the "high pressure" rated stuff) - it will shatter and send shrapnel in all directions and has caused significant injury here in Australia in the past. We used thick wall HDPE piping designed for water and gas mains reticulation. It is available in the correct bore diameters for most common shell sizes. These also need to be well secured - avoid metal so you don't create shrapnel again if there is a launch failure.

Having said that - no fireworks should be treated as "safe" - they aren't!

If you do have a misfire DO NOT APPROACH for at least 10 minutes. This allows any heat built up to dissipate. There have been cases where a fuse lit well after the igniter was supposed to go off.

this is why 1) there's a "safe" mode switch, and 2) the mcp23017 has a reliable power-on-reset state.

I'm not sure how you have wired up the boxes, but the default un-powered state of the relays (the "NC" state) should be used to short out the igniters / squibs. This is the recommended practice (here anyway) for all igniters - the leads should come pre-stripped and twisted when you buy them and should remain shorted until fired (there is a brief period when you undo this to insert into the firing contacts). The theory is that this mitigates as best as possible both electrostatic and EMI induced currents and therefore minimises the chance of an accidental initiation. I believe (what I was told during training) that this is the required practice for all blasting activities (eg mining) here. Don't get me wrong, it is (by design) difficult to set these things off accidentally, but it can happen.

This can be done by connecting the relay armature to one leg of the igniter, the NC leg of the relay goes to ground with the other lead from the igniter. The NO lead is then used for sensing continuity and for applying the firing current (for an single throw relay). If you have a double throw relay - recommended - you can totally short the igniter and completely remove it from the circuit.

This means you operate the relay, make you continuity check and then de-energise the relay. When it comes time to fire - you have a separate "power" driver (relay?) that can apply the firing voltage to the NO contacts, then you energise the appropriate relay to fire one igniter at a time. Note that your continuity check circuit should not have a single point failure that can result in sufficient current to fire the igniter, generally this means at least 2 series resistors.. I can't remember what the safe no-fire current was for the igniters we used - you should find that out - I believe it was surprisingly high.

Do not parallel igniters! This can result in situations where one fires and prevents the others from firing. The correct thing is to put them in series, HOWEVER you need to ensure you have sufficient energy to fire them all off (not easy to prove). This non-parallel firing also means that you must only energise one firing relay at a time to avoid a similar issue.

Usually not 'random', usually it's high impedance (ie. INPUT with no pullup).

But ... if that's enough to set off the fireworks then you've already failed and shouldn't be allowed anywhere near anything explosive.

For fireworks you'd have a master relay for the 12V supply and only enable 12V power after all the Arduinos have woken up and reported their state to the master controller. Even then you'd have a second physical key on a string around your neck and only connect the 12V power a few seconds before the display is due to start.

This is another important point - there should be at least 2 distinct mechanical lockouts that remove all power from the circuits. In Queensland at least one of these needed to be a removable key type switch and you need to have this key on you when you leave the firing location.

because i don't know the exact timing of the individual fireworks, this will be manually operator stepped through the firing sequence, so i can adjust the display according to how fast each firework runs. every step requires several distinct button presses, and there is no auto firing.

Sounds like a very sensible approach. Unless you are trying to coordinate a very large display to music, manual sequencing is simplest and best.

Have fun, and stay safe.
Ash.
 

Offline Ash

  • Regular Contributor
  • *
  • Posts: 161
  • Country: au
Re: My arduino powered firework sequencer. This is gonna be a blast.
« Reply #30 on: July 03, 2017, 02:42:01 am »
My local fireworks shop/display company stores its fireworks in a shipping container. About 5 years ago some tea-leafs broke in to steal them - using an angle grinder to cut through the sides.  :wtf: ** In the process they cut half way through the wall of a six inch shell....

I wonder if they realized how close they came to a date with the grim reaper? Perhaps not surprisingly the shop owners were a bit disappointed that they hadn't but the resulting insurance issues would have been a big headache....

Ouch...

When I was doing my fireworks training I was told of an accident here in Australia many years ago.. One of the few legitimate fireworks importers for the country, had a fatal accident unloading a shipping container into their storage facilities. From what I heard, the two individuals manually unloading the container were a little too cavalier and were throwing boxes to each other. At some point one item ignited, and a chain reaction rapidly took place. All the remaining shells etc went up and the container essentially turned into a rocket engine. I don't believe they found any remains of the workers. Thankfully, their compound was correctly designed with appropriate earthen banks separating the stores, so it didn't all go up.

Very close indeed to a very bad day for all.

Ash.
 

Offline usagiTopic starter

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 391
  • Country: us
Re: My arduino powered firework sequencer. This is gonna be a blast.
« Reply #31 on: July 03, 2017, 03:14:44 am »
Do not parallel igniters! This can result in situations where one fires and prevents the others from firing. The correct thing is to put them in series, HOWEVER you need to ensure you have sufficient energy to fire them all off (not easy to prove). This non-parallel firing also means that you must only energise one firing relay at a time to avoid a similar issue.

i think you have this backwards  8) in series, any one of the igniters firing will open the circuit and prevent the others from firing.

Offline floobydust

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 7000
  • Country: ca
Re: My arduino powered firework sequencer. This is gonna be a blast.
« Reply #32 on: July 03, 2017, 03:15:56 am »
 
because i don't know the exact timing of the individual fireworks, this will be manually operator stepped through the firing sequence, so i can adjust the display according to how fast each firework runs. every step requires several distinct button presses, and there is no auto firing.

sorry to disappoint all you guys hoping for my catastrophic failure  ;D

I thought the Arduino was timing the ignitor pulse. Yes 200usec but it's i^2*t so leave extra time for line resistance, relay etc. say 50-100msec with deadtime between lights. No prob. with a button press though.
Just wanting total success  8) looking forward to the youtube video
 

Offline Ash

  • Regular Contributor
  • *
  • Posts: 161
  • Country: au
Re: My arduino powered firework sequencer. This is gonna be a blast.
« Reply #33 on: July 03, 2017, 03:35:04 am »
Do not parallel igniters! This can result in situations where one fires and prevents the others from firing. The correct thing is to put them in series, HOWEVER you need to ensure you have sufficient energy to fire them all off (not easy to prove). This non-parallel firing also means that you must only energise one firing relay at a time to avoid a similar issue.

i think you have this backwards  8) in series, any one of the igniters firing will open the circuit and prevent the others from firing.

Negative. Series for multiple igniters. It sounds counter intuitive to electronics people - it certainly did to me until it was explained.

Series is the preferred method. The devices are relatively matched and will all fire at approximately the same delivered energy. The amount of energy delivered in the series loop to each device is about the same and all will have sufficient "heat" before one opens. If ones fails short it will still allow the others to fire. Note that during the firing, the generated plasma (flame) is conductive.

With the parallel it is possible to make it work, but to total energy available is divided between the igniters. If one fails short, it will rob all the current from the others. Any commercial firing system I've seen recommends series and if they have a parallel specification, it is significantly fewer igniters in parallel than in series.

EDIT: Series also allows you to verify the correct wiring using a continuity check, parallel doesn't allow you to verify all igniters are correctly wired.

Ash.
« Last Edit: July 03, 2017, 03:36:40 am by Ash »
 

Offline usagiTopic starter

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 391
  • Country: us
Re: My arduino powered firework sequencer. This is gonna be a blast.
« Reply #34 on: July 03, 2017, 07:23:03 am »
Also, if you do have shells - DO NOT USE PVC pipe as launch tubes (even the "high pressure" rated stuff) - it will shatter and send shrapnel in all directions and has caused significant injury here in Australia in the past. We used thick wall HDPE piping designed for water and gas mains reticulation. It is available in the correct bore diameters for most common shell sizes. These also need to be well secured - avoid metal so you don't create shrapnel again if there is a launch failure.

my mortar racks are DR11 hpde and have been for the past 10 years.  8)

Offline Ash

  • Regular Contributor
  • *
  • Posts: 161
  • Country: au
Re: My arduino powered firework sequencer. This is gonna be a blast.
« Reply #35 on: July 03, 2017, 10:09:51 am »
Also, if you do have shells - DO NOT USE PVC pipe as launch tubes

my mortar racks are DR11 hpde and have been for the past 10 years.  8)

Good to hear  :-+  I guess I'm just putting it out there so others know as well.

Shells are much nicer and more fun, but also more dangerous. I wasn't sure you had access to them. Sadly its been a while now since I stopped doing this and my license lapsed. I kind of miss it..

Also, I can give a more technical answer to why series igniters are the way to go if you (or anyone else) is interested.

Ash.
 

Offline usagiTopic starter

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 391
  • Country: us
Re: My arduino powered firework sequencer. This is gonna be a blast.
« Reply #36 on: July 03, 2017, 06:36:02 pm »
Also, if you do have shells - DO NOT USE PVC pipe as launch tubes

my mortar racks are DR11 hpde and have been for the past 10 years.  8)

Good to hear  :-+  I guess I'm just putting it out there so others know as well.

Shells are much nicer and more fun, but also more dangerous. I wasn't sure you had access to them. Sadly its been a while now since I stopped doing this and my license lapsed. I kind of miss it..

Also, I can give a more technical answer to why series igniters are the way to go if you (or anyone else) is interested.

Ash.

i did a bunch of checking on this and turns out that most consumer firing systems in the US explicitly prohibit series connections and explicitly recommend parallel. the reason is because most US consumers use clip-on 'talon' igniters which are nichrome wire. your series recommendation only works for pyrogen e-matches.

here's examples of why you don't do series with the #1 most common igniter in the US:



« Last Edit: July 03, 2017, 06:40:11 pm by usagi »
 

Offline Ash

  • Regular Contributor
  • *
  • Posts: 161
  • Country: au
Re: My arduino powered firework sequencer. This is gonna be a blast.
« Reply #37 on: July 04, 2017, 01:20:40 am »

i did a bunch of checking on this and turns out that most consumer firing systems in the US explicitly prohibit series connections and explicitly recommend parallel. the reason is because most US consumers use clip-on 'talon' igniters which are nichrome wire. your series recommendation only works for pyrogen e-matches.


Hi Usagi,

You are correct for these hot-wire style igniters I do believe! Sorry - I saw the orange wire igniters in your original photos and just assumed they were e-matches because they looked quite similar to what we used to use. I guess I should have stated this assumption!  :palm:

If these are a simple nichrome wire, then yes I'd parallel these, and they will probably require much higher drive current then the e-matches we used to use.  Very interesting.. Is there much of a delay in ignition on these. I guess it doesn't matter if you're lighting delay fuse (green stuff), but when launching shells which normally come with "quick-match" (I think it was called) we would just slit the end of the quick-match paper sheath and shove in the e-match, and wrap with a bit of tape. It would then fire a shell pretty much instantly the current was applied, allowing for consistent timing.

The clip on style is kind of cool for quick setup, but I'd still be taping them on for security in a display situation.  :-//

I'm wondering if the hot-wire igniter was developed to remove the requirement for a pyro compound and circumvent licensing regulations? Do you know if these nichrome wire style are used by the professionals over there?

The e-match is basically a wire that gets hot enough to ignite a small amount pryro compound over the wire, once that goes it lights the fuse. There may be a second pryo mix over the first in some (I can't remember). The energy needed to initiate the first compound is designed to be significantly less than required to burn out the wire. That way when they are series connected they all light before any can be blown open. This is also how blasting caps are normally done as well if I remember correctly.  :-//

Cheers,
Ash.
 

Offline usagiTopic starter

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 391
  • Country: us
Re: My arduino powered firework sequencer. This is gonna be a blast.
« Reply #38 on: July 04, 2017, 02:36:38 am »
yes, nichrome wire igniters are common because they are cheap and don't have shiping regulations.

i don't like them because the wire is fragile and can tear/break when you clip them on. they are like a light bulb filament. they also require a lot of current to fire.

professionals don't use nichrome wire igniters, i don't either. but most people in the US do.

Offline usagiTopic starter

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 391
  • Country: us
Re: My arduino powered firework sequencer. This is gonna be a blast.
« Reply #39 on: July 04, 2017, 02:41:06 am »

handed off mortar racks + wiring to a coworker.


24 ea excalibur and event horizon mortars.   ;D


assembling cake boards. remove bottoms to expose tubes.


liquid nails to glue them to the boards. they aren't going anywhere.   8)


all glued down, just need to be fused up


all 8 cake boards boards, and a 9 shot display rack.


<3 my STI   :-+

Online Fungus

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 16666
  • Country: 00
Re: My arduino powered firework sequencer. This is gonna be a blast.
« Reply #40 on: July 04, 2017, 03:54:01 am »
Be sure to make a video...!

 

Offline Ash

  • Regular Contributor
  • *
  • Posts: 161
  • Country: au
Re: My arduino powered firework sequencer. This is gonna be a blast.
« Reply #41 on: July 04, 2017, 05:42:29 am »
Hi Usagi,

Nice mortar racks!  :clap:

Damn, that brings back some fun memories.. shame I can't do that any more.. sigh..

One other hint - if you expect any rain or dew (I don't know where you are in the US) there is nothing wrong with a layer of "saran" wrap over the mortar tubes and igniters. The shells will go straight through and you don't have to worry about water.. I've done shows in the rain before.. fun.  :-\

Ash.
 

Offline usagiTopic starter

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 391
  • Country: us
Re: My arduino powered firework sequencer. This is gonna be a blast.
« Reply #42 on: July 04, 2017, 07:09:56 am »
(I don't know where you are in the US)

someone observant might be able to tell from the pictures.  8)

there is nothing wrong with a layer of "saran" wrap over the mortar tubes and igniters. The shells will go straight through and you don't have to worry about water.. I've done shows in the rain before.. fun.  :-\

for that purpose, i find blue painter's tape is much easier to apply and easier to clean up. some people use foil tape or mylar.

Offline Ash

  • Regular Contributor
  • *
  • Posts: 161
  • Country: au
Re: My arduino powered firework sequencer. This is gonna be a blast.
« Reply #43 on: July 04, 2017, 07:23:22 am »
(I don't know where you are in the US)

someone observant might be able to tell from the pictures.  8)

Hahah, I was too busy looking at the load of fireworks to notice your plates...  ;D

Enjoy the 4th. (I'm sure you will)  :-DD

 

Offline usagiTopic starter

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 391
  • Country: us
Re: My arduino powered firework sequencer. This is gonna be a blast.
« Reply #44 on: July 05, 2017, 07:08:02 am »
show was a huge success!  8)

everything worked fantastic. continuity test helped identify on-site wiring errors, wireless worked great, auto sequencing worked great.

i even got a good video :-+

Offline usagiTopic starter

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 391
  • Country: us
Re: My arduino powered firework sequencer. This is gonna be a blast.
« Reply #45 on: July 05, 2017, 09:55:06 pm »

Offline NivagSwerdna

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 2495
  • Country: gb
Re: My arduino powered firework sequencer. This is gonna be a blast.
« Reply #46 on: July 05, 2017, 11:19:55 pm »
show was a huge success!  8)
Awesome.  Looking forward to the video!
 

Offline usagiTopic starter

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 391
  • Country: us
Re: My arduino powered firework sequencer. This is gonna be a blast.
« Reply #47 on: July 06, 2017, 12:54:13 am »
and a big raspberry to all the nay sayers in this thread  >:D
 
The following users thanked this post: Barryg41

Offline T3sl4co1l

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 21686
  • Country: us
  • Expert, Analog Electronics, PCB Layout, EMC
    • Seven Transistor Labs
Re: My arduino powered firework sequencer. This is gonna be a blast.
« Reply #48 on: July 06, 2017, 12:57:30 am »
Guessing it worked nicely :D

Tim
Seven Transistor Labs, LLC
Electronic design, from concept to prototype.
Bringing a project to life?  Send me a message!
 

Online Fungus

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 16666
  • Country: 00
Re: My arduino powered firework sequencer. This is gonna be a blast.
« Reply #49 on: July 06, 2017, 03:09:05 am »
 :clap:

 


Share me

Digg  Facebook  SlashDot  Delicious  Technorati  Twitter  Google  Yahoo
Smf