New Project a BatterRUSEr

[onlooker]

What would you like me to measure?

If only everyone can stop joking too much. That dilutes the subject.

Naturely, I would like see benchmarks with new and finished batteries for more "typical" devices and edge cases. One paticular case of my interest is canon cameras. I have two, and both needed eneloops to run long enough. Though never used alkaline in them. One draw about 400+ mA when on, and 800+ mA peak.

[TheBay]

I believe that we use the unit "CMC"

If anyone asks for a comparison between kilohamsters to milligerbils then that's probably the batterizer guys.

No need to ask because we already know the answer: the ratio between kilohamsters and milligerbils is 800%. However you need to ask if you need a scientific explanation. The original mathematical formula is almost impossible to solve because of "clapping monkey constant" in it.

A.

[Jay_Diddy_B]

Hi group,

Here are some measurements that I made.

The inductor used for all these tests is a TDK VLF50122R2M2R0 (Digikey 445-4232-6-nd)

This has a DCR of 83m Ohm.

No Load Input Current



The Iq increases with lower Vin. The no load input power is around 27 uW.

At 20uA this would discharge a 2Ahr AA battery in 100K Hours (11 years). The battery self-discharge is probably in the same order of magnitude.

Efficiency and Power Loss at Iout=50mA



This graph shows the efficiency and power loss at a moderate load of 50mA.

Efficiency at 250mA




This graph shows the measured efficiency at 250mA.

Battery ESR Measurement

I measured a Duracell Procell AA battery using a transient load. The load is configured to step the current from 100 to 200mA current. The battery voltage was measured with a scope directly across the battery terminals



The ESR = dv/di

= 0.0217/0.1 = 0.217 Ohms (This is a fresh battery)

I repeated the test at 500 Hz to look for any high frequency effects. The scope shows the battery is very resistive.



Transient Load Testing of the Boost circuit

I applied the transient load test to the boost circuit. At 100 to 200mA the output is dominated by the voltage ripple. The ripple is moderate, because the IC is operating in burst mode to reduce losses at light currents.



At higher currents, 400  to 500 mA, the IC operates in the continuous mode and the transient response is revealed:



The boost circuit does a good job of shielding the load from the ESR of the battery, but the load still has to deal with the transient response of the boost supply.


Switch Node Waveform

This picture shows the switch node. You can see the top MOSFET being turned on, this is typical of a synchronous boost supply.



Thermal Image

The Lab is around 20^oC.

The boost converter was running for an hour with Vin=1.2 and Iout=250 mA.



The IC was at 27 and the 24.8C

Regards,

Jay_Diddy_B

[McBryce]

You do realise that you have already done more R&D on this than the Batteriser team managed in 5 years?

McBryce.

[Godzil]

Don't do too much with your BatterRUSEr or my BUTTeRUSEr would look meaningless

[SundayProgrammer]

You do realise that you have already done more R&D on this than the Batteriser team managed in 5 years?
McBryce.

Impressive graphics indeed!

Axel.

[mikerj]

I wonder how well the Butteriser will handle reverse polarity if it's part of a series connected string and the cell it's clipped on dies before the others?

Jay, you could try doing your transient load testing with a variable supply impedance, and increase the impedance until the circuit fails.  This should give an idea of how discharged a cell could be and still work with a "bursty" load.

[Jay_Diddy_B]

I apologize for the cross post, but....

What REALLY seems to be going on here is that everything was already made... 2-3 years ago, and the crowd-funding is all a publicity-making machine. Seems like it is all done...

If that is the case then why don't they have real final units to show the media. At least one report from a journalist I've spoken to said the prototype failed in two devices he tried, and they struck it up to being a prototype issue that will be sorted out in production.
Also, if it's already finished, why isn't there any technical data released at all?

I am not surprised that the prototype failed in the device that he tried in. Here are some measurement that I made on my boost converter circuit based on the LTC3539 chip.

First I measured the current consumption of a Fuji Camera, I am not sure of the model, but at least five years old, it use and XD card.

Here is the current consumption while taken a picture with the flash on. The current is 200mA measured with a Tektronix TCP202 dc current probe:




Same setup without using the flash:



And the current drawn during start up:



If I zoom into the peak, I see this:




The batteriser needs to be able supply about 1A of peak current if used in this camera.

So now I know what the peak current looks like I can use an electronic load.

This picture shows the battery terminal (input), blue trace, using the boost circuit:




Without the boost circuit, the battery terminal voltage looks like this:




The battery voltage drop less without the boost circuit than with.

Note: Some the components I am using are too big to fit in the batteriser clip.

FAIL

for high current devices like digital cameras.


Regards,

Jay_Diddy_B

[Godzil]

So as my latest release of the BUTTeRUSEr Probe The Monkey Edition is OSH, I've push the latest schematics here:

https://github.com/Godzil/BUTTeRUSEr

I still have to finish the PCB design, but it's nearly complete, I need to redo some slight things, but it's just a matter of hour of work, nothing really fancy.

[Joule Thief]

I believe that we use the unit "CMC"

If anyone asks for a comparison between kilohamsters to milligerbils then that's probably the batterizer guys.

The original mathematical formula is almost impossible to solve because of "clapping monkey constant" in it.

A.

maybe the formula would be easier to solve if you use conductance units in "Simians" 

[Bud]

Please pay respect to the clapping monkey guy and use Ukens units .

[pickle9000]

I am curious how 4 units will work in series. That's a fairly common configuration.

I assume the boost will kick in at a specified voltage to keep the current draw low. Batteries never drain at the same rate and the set kick in voltage will vary as well. That will make for some oscillations unless the batterizers can talk to each other?

[ez24]

Remember that you'll need to use a dead battery, per the batteriser instructions; they specifically say to use it once you see the low battery indicator.

Also use a new battery.  They did a video of a flashlight in a box using one new battery and one new battery with their thing on it and it lasted a lot longer than the one without.  They used units of lumens vs time

[Halcyon]

Silkscreen Probes The Monkey on the underside!

Love the nickname :-)

[Godzil]

As I'm a bit slow these day, and don't want to tease for too long, here is the latest version of my BUTTeRUSEr Probe The Monkey Edition

[firewalker]

Awesome!!!

Alexander.

[Godzil]

I need to refine some part of the PCB as the probes are not large enough, and the silkscreen is just horrible, but it's to give the idea

[BravoV]

I need to refine some part of the PCB as the probes are not large enough, and the silkscreen is just horrible, but it's to give the idea

Damn ... any chance you will "crow-source"  it ? I want one !

[Bud]

Can you make it emit that Wink-wink-wink--clap-clap sound when it finished doing whatever it is supposed to do , i.e. charging the battery (assuming the circuit is a battery charger).

Nice project anyway. 

[Godzil]

BravoV: don't worry it will be available:)

Bud: sorry this is a BUTTeRUSEr not a BUTTaNOYEr, but when I will put the pub design on GitHub you will be welcome to do a BUTTaNOYEr!

[timofonic]

BravoV: don't worry it will be available:)

Bud: sorry this is a BUTTeRUSEr not a BUTTaNOYEr, but when I will put the pub design on GitHub you will be welcome to do a BUTTaNOYEr!

What's your EDA software?

[Godzil]

Kicad obviously

[firewalker]

Please, update the git repository!

Alexander.

[Godzil]

The PCB for the BUTTeRUSEr is almost ready, just a few hours of work on it, and I'll update the repository, and I plan to do a pcb run from it, then at the same time in fact I will do a BUTTaNOYEr too, but I think, I will create a specific thread from both project, it's not nice to steal this thread for my project

[timofonic]

The PCB for the BUTTeRUSEr is almost ready, just a few hours of work on it, and I'll update the repository, and I plan to do a pcb run from it, then at the same time in fact I will do a BUTTaNOYEr too, but I think, I will create a specific thread from both project, it's not nice to steal this thread for my project

Some advanced technical ideas...